how to protect the amp from bad voltage?

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

The bottom line IMO, is that a well designed amplifier made for the working musician SHOULD be able to cope with the normal day to day surges on a power line. The OP is in Europe so there should be an electrical code governing the electrical supply.

What Paul said.

If power were as bad as many fear it is, forget about playing because there would be fires breaking out.

 

[carl h.]

Bob, what are your thoughts on using an UPS system to stabilize voltage?

Not a lot of reserve amperage, but as a supplement for short term high draw situations would it be worth trying?

 

[bassclef112]

I've been using one of these for years and have had no problems. They make 230v models as well.

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It handles all my amps and I can throw the guitar player on it as well.

 

[Downunderwonder]

got a furman ar 2330 today. older model but at a nice price and it gives me 30ampere.

tomorrow i will probably have my titan back. lets see how it goes.

SOLVED

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Bob, what are your thoughts on using an UPS system to stabilize voltage?

Not a lot of reserve amperage, but as a supplement for short term high draw situations would it be worth trying?

It depends on what you're trying to solve. They're great for computers and IT gear. In some cases they might be useful for digital mixers and processing gear where you might otherwise lose presets and stuff like that if the power is accidentally interrupted. I think their usefulness would fall off in most other situations.

 

[Joe Louvar]

It depends on what you're trying to solve. They're great for computers and IT gear. In some cases they might be useful for digital mixers and processing gear where you might otherwise lose presets and stuff like that if the power is accidentally interrupted. I think their usefulness would fall off in most other situations.

+1. I agree.
For example, I have Furman AR1215s in my outboard racks and they work great - but I don’t think they’re really designed for pwr amps and I don’t think any outboard voltage regulator is going to solve this problem - I suspect the problem is with the Mesa bass amp.

 

[seamonkey]

Looked at the furman specs,
They were nice enough to include graphs.

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That's pretty rough regulation. Looks to be coil switching. In the "regulation range" the output voltage jumps up and down. Not shown are all the harmonics switching coils can produce. I hope they built in hysteresis so it doesn't oscillate when input voltage is on one of the spikes.

Outside of the regulated range - it doesn't do snot, until it hits a shutdown threshold.

Tradeoff is current isn't available at lower voltages where an amp with a build in regulator may pull more current to get the voltage up.

It's much easier, cleaner, and sensible to build AC to DC regulation into the power supply of the gear.

 

[cracked_machine]

Surround it with good voltage....i'll be here all week!

 

[jmclearnon]

You could just make your own power conditioner with a feedback control loop, which puts your input voltage through another transformer if it exceeds a very high voltage... And you could have current limiting resistors etc...

Would be heavy as and i couldn't be bothered designing one right now lol!

 

[billfitzmaurice]

You could just make your own power conditioner with a feedback control loop

Or just get an amp that doesn't have the shortcomings that his present amp obviously suffers. I could see extreme measures being required in some backwater 3rd world areas, but Europe hardly falls into that category.

 

[Grinderman]

Agreed but not all audio gear is that well thought out.
The old Dolby A racks would stop working at 109 Volts
The big question is how stable is your low voltage power; often times it will vary

"From 1934 to 2002, Variac was a U.S. trademark of General Radio for a variable autotransformer intended to conveniently vary the output voltage for a steady AC input voltage. In 2004, Instrument Service Equipment applied for and obtained the Variac trademark for the same type of product"

Autotransformer - Wikipedia

Raiders of the Lost Ark tread dredge but I was looking for some information stemming from what's in the video and I found this thread.

How about a $350 Brown Box? If it's a '50s or '60s amp, for example, the thing could be suited 117 volts.

 

[Jim C]

Raiders of the Lost Ark tread dredge but I was looking for some information stemming from what's in the video and I found this thread.

How about a $350 Brown Box? If it's a '50s or '60s amp, for example, the thing could be suited 117 volts.



View attachment 4644445

Maybe
My neighbor has one and I find it useless unless you intentionally want to under voltage an amp.
I believe that gear that was designed to run at 115 / 110 voltage can also run safely at 120. They had a specified range back in the day as they do now. The components alone are probably plus or minus 10%.

 

[Grinderman]

Maybe
My neighbor has one and I find it useless unless you intentionally want to under voltage an amp.
I believe that gear that was designed to run at 115 / 110 voltage can also run safely at 120. They had a specified range back in the day as they do now. The components alone are probably plus or minus 10%.

Just going by what Mike Zaite/Dr Z Amplification says in the attached video. It's not 100% positively clear to me, when the house/venue has under voltage.

 

[beans-on-toast]

The brown box is used for dropping voltage. It doesn’t regulate. It’s basically a bucking transformer. Not difficult to build but has to be done safely.

 

[seamonkey]

Just going by what Mike Zaite/Dr Z Amplification says in the attached video. It's not 100% positively clear to me, when the house/venue has under voltage.

Brown Snake Oil

It looks to only be a voltage attenuator
It doesn't have any voltage boost.
It doesn't handle enough current for most bass amps.
The claim is "Make your tubes last longer" - and it does so by dropping the voltage.
That makes the tubes run with less current - at a lower volume.
Same thing as just turning the volume down - and you'll save $350.

 

[agedhorse]

Amps should be designed to handle a high line condition of 132 volts, but there are always hungry guppies in the pond and that’s who the bait is for.

 

[devnulljp]

There is no affordable option with the current capacity to handle an amplifier. Get a volt meter, if the venue voltage tests outside of acceptable tolerance go home.

Really, so are those power conditioners just snakeoil? I've been using one since a suspected brownout caused my amp to just up and quit one night. Luckily, it was a well-designed amp that shut itself down before any damage could be done and was fine afterwards, but I went out and bought a Furman power conditioner right after. Are they no good?

 

[agedhorse]

Really, so are those power conditioners just snakeoil? I've been using one since a suspected brownout caused my amp to just up and quit one night. Luckily, it was a well-designed amp that shut itself down before any damage could be done and was fine afterwards, but I went out and bought a Furman power conditioner right after. Are they no good?

For the most part, yes.

 

[seamonkey]

Really, so are those power conditioners just snakeoil? I've been using one since a suspected brownout caused my amp to just up and quit one night. Luckily, it was a well-designed amp that shut itself down before any damage could be done and was fine afterwards, but I went out and bought a Furman power conditioner right after. Are they no good?

Bill is still correct today as he was when he said it 10 years ago.
What has changed is that power supplies are now SMPS and include everything inside their design to protect against any line condition. There is no need for any external high price AC re-generator/regulator for any modern power amp.

Your amp shutdown to protect itself with it's own built in protection.

 

[Jim C]

Amps should be designed to handle a high line condition of 132 volts, but there are always hungry guppies in the pond and that’s who the bait is for.

Andy,
Back in the day the line voltage was approx. 110 - 115 VAC and some say 60's amps were designed for this voltage.
I think it might have been you that said while this may be true, they are still OK operating at today's voltages.

My question is what was the max voltage for design criteria then and now? We see every bit of 120 - 124 VAC daily with modern power and 400 Amp service at our house and have never had a problem with any appliance or device. Just curious if design standards changed.