How to record a concert band

[Space Pickle]

I am an elementary school music teacher by day, and as the school year approaches it's end I've decided to record our bands for posterity. These will be kids in grades 6-8 playing woodwind, brasswind, and percussion instruments in a concert band format. I will also be recording my not-quite-a-big-band jazz ensemble (bass, guitar, drums, 2 trumpets, 1 flute, 1 clarinet, 3 saxes, and 1 trombone).

I'm going to use the Zoom H6 with either 4 SM 57's and the Zoom XY condenser pair or 6 SM 57's if I can purchase the attachment over the weekend. It doesn't have to be a perfect recording, but I was wondering if anybody could offer suggestions, in particular regarding optimal mic placement. We're likely going to be recording in the band room, which has some minimal sound dampening and high ceilings...I might be able to record in the school gym instead (big concrete box) but that may not be possible to arrange.

Should I aim my mics at the best players, to try to get more of their sound, or what?

 

[silky smoove]

If you can use six mic inputs I would grab a figure 8 mic to pair with one of the 57s in a mid-side arrangement. I would then add two more 57s on each side at increasingly steep angles as you move away from center. You'll likely only use the mid-side pair, but having the safety net of the others would be good for piece of mind.

If you don't want to buy another mic just spread the 4-6 mics out across the band. Make sure and have one mic dead center (not the stereo XY mic built into the unit).

Try to keep the distances from each mic capsule to the closest instruments as uniform as possible.

 

[silky smoove]

The fewer mics you use the less phase problems you'll have. Mid-side reduces the phase issues even further since the three tracks created from the two mics have capsules in very close proximity to each other rather than spreading out a bunch of mics. It will also allow you to get as wide or narrow of a stereo picture as you like by adjusting the level of the mid mic.

 

[lz4005]

Your best bet is a very carefully placed stereo pair of mics in a good sounding room.

More than that and you're going to get bleed and phase cancellation issues. Plus the kids don't know how to play into mics. Its asking for trouble.

Have them play and move around the room until you find a spot where it sounds best and put the mics there, at your ear level. Don't be afraid to move the players out of their normal positions to get them closer or farther away from the mics to get a good mix.

 

[silky smoove]

Your best bet is a very carefully placed stereo pair of mics in a good sounding room.

More than that and you're going to get bleed and phase cancellation issues. Plus the kids don't know how to play into mics. Its asking for trouble.

Have them play and move around the room until you find a spot where it sounds best and put the mics there, at your ear level. Don't be afraid to move the players out of their normal positions to get them closer or farther away from the mics to get a good mix.

I agree with all of this, but would still opt for mid-side as opposed to a spaced pair, XY, or ORTF arrangement.

 

[lz4005]

I agree with all of this, but would still opt for mid-side as opposed to a spaced pair, XY, or ORTF arrangement.

Ideally mid-side would sound better, but I was thinking stereo pair would be more practical given OP's experience level. And assuming he'll be recording to a single stereo track with minimal post production.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

If it's anything like my high school band, anywhere not directly in front of the trumpets will be your best bet.

 

[Space Pickle]

bahaha yeah. It's actually a pretty good band...I have strong players in every section.

 

[silky smoove]

Ideally mid-side would sound better, but I was thinking stereo pair would be more practical given OP's experience level. And assuming he'll be recording to a single stereo track with minimal post production.

Does that field unit not allow export of individual mic inputs? If it truly bounces everything to stereo than mid-side it out and I'd go XY or ORTF rather than spaced pair.

 

[Space Pickle]

The USB out can do all 6 channels.

 

[lz4005]

Does that field unit not allow export of individual mic inputs? If it truly bounces everything to stereo than mid-side it out and I'd go XY or ORTF rather than spaced pair.

Apparently the H6 will do 6 tracks with the add-on accessory OP referred to. I was thinking of a previous model that only had 2 inputs.

 

[silky smoove]

There are a lot of different ways to configure it. I think you have to choose between higher bit rate stereo or lower bit rate 4 input if you use it as a standalone unit. But I could be wrong.

As long as the lower bit rate is 44.1khz or better I would DEFINITELY go that route for the benefit of getting a multitrack output.

 

[ofajen]

I've done recording for my kids' middle school band performances and emailed them to the teacher. She makes sure I can sit up front and center. I've gotten decent results with an old MicroTrack and a stereo omni mike unit made specially for it. The spacing is small so it's kinda like binaural.

Otto

 

[lz4005]

As long as the lower bit rate is 44.1khz or better I would DEFINITELY go that route for the benefit of getting a multitrack output.

I was thinking of a previous model. Edited my post accordingly.

 

[trevcda]

Start simple with what's built in to the unit at the director's position and listen to what you get. Since you're in the band room and not in front of an audience, I probably wouldn't put it too far into he room unless you're not getting a cohesive blend of the band that close. It may be fine or you may need to experiment with placement. Frankly, if I found that I wanted to start multi-tracking things I'd get something hardware or software based that was more conducive to what I was trying to accomplish.

 

[The BurgerMeister]

I just did some small orchestra recordings and used two spaced cardioid condensers and close mics on soloists when needed. Worked quite well, but i would've Mid-Side if i had had access to a figure 8 mic at the time. Or maybe even Blumlein with two figure 8s.

I agree with the less is more approach mentioned. More mics can make more issues pop up.

 

[Wasnex]

Should I aim my mics at the best players, to try to get more of their sound, or what?

IMHO, Your goal should be to get a good composite of the entire ensemble.

I haven't recorded a concert band but I did sound reinforcement for concert bands for several years. Ultimately I got the best coverage and ensemble sound with mics set up in a Decca tree arrangement with an additional pair of mics serving as outriggers (5 mics total). The center mic in the Decca tree was just behind and above the conductors head. The outriggers were in line with the outside Decca tree mics and placed approximately 2/3rd to the outside of the band. If the mics need to be really close on the band you may also try two sets of outriggers.

The height of the mics should be varied depending upon the acoustics and the balance of direct and indirect sound you want. For sound reinforcement I wanted a more direct sound so the mics were only about 9 feet high. You will probably want to place the mics several feet higher than this for recording. Additionally, I used directional mics for feedback resistance...a true Decca tree setup uses omni mics. For this setup I used AKG C414s in either cardiod or wide cardiod.

If you can move the Decca tree back a little and higher, you should be able to get a great ensemble sound with just three mics.

I am a big fan of mid-side. Before adapting the Decca tree setup, I experimented with an AKG C422B in mid-side mode. I found I liked using the mid-side as a sweetener placed around waste level (or slightly lower) just in front of the conductors podium to pickup the front row off woodwinds. IMHO mid-side gives a wonderful stereo spread but it tends to distort the image somewhat by hyping instruments that are inline with the side mic (figure 8 pattern). Mid-side also tends exaggerate the natural reverberation in the hall...depending upon the circumstances, this can be good or bad.

I suggest you also consider XY, ORTF, and NOS. One advantage of these techniques is that you only need two mics, so perhaps you can buy a little higher quality.

Another great advantage of XY, ORTF, NOS, and mid-side is that with the appropriate mic bar, you can place your array on one stand and the array is not too visually distracting. Decca tree requires either three stands, a very expensive and large Decca tree bar, or the mics must be suspended from the ceiling.

The choice between techniques will likely be driven by the acoustics, the mic placement, and the size of the ensemble.

Good luck.

 

[DavC]

i don't think SM57 mics are the best choice for 'far away' mic'ing ...

the H6 might do fine all by itself as design with it's it internal mics ... maybe get it up in the air right behind Director ... i used to use a SM57 up close when i played trumpet in a few bands ..

i remember using some rather long Shure pencil type mics for band & choir recordings ...

i'd also stay in the smaller room ... the room ambiance of the gym would be a boomy echoy problem ... been there , done that ... (stage band recordings )

 

[BassManKK]

I am an elementary school music teacher by day, and as the school year approaches it's end I've decided to record our bands for posterity. These will be kids in grades 6-8 playing woodwind, brasswind, and percussion instruments in a concert band format. I will also be recording my not-quite-a-big-band jazz ensemble (bass, guitar, drums, 2 trumpets, 1 flute, 1 clarinet, 3 saxes, and 1 trombone).

I'm going to use the Zoom H6 with either 4 SM 57's and the Zoom XY condenser pair or 6 SM 57's if I can purchase the attachment over the weekend. It doesn't have to be a perfect recording, but I was wondering if anybody could offer suggestions, in particular regarding optimal mic placement. We're likely going to be recording in the band room, which has some minimal sound dampening and high ceilings...I might be able to record in the school gym instead (big concrete box) but that may not be possible to arrange.

Should I aim my mics at the best players, to try to get more of their sound, or what?

Think simple. A large band in a school cafeteria is a challenging place to get a good recording.

The built-in mics in the Zoom are surprisingly good.

I record a lot of small ensembles in jazz clubs and small to mid size halls. I've had great success with my old Zoom H4 and now with my Tascam DR40 just with the built in mics.

Don't use the SMC57's they are great instrument and vocal mics and terrible field recording mics.

I suggest you get a good tripod and mount the H6 in between the audience and the band, maybe in front of the conductor or the lip of the stage, where you get a good overall sound. record at 24bit/96khz for (maximum dynamic range), put in a large memory card and let 'er roll. really that it's it.

If you can get a good set of cardoid recording mics you could try for a four channel mix but you run the risk of phase errors/issues and tonal balance between mics.

 

[Wasnex]

If you have room to move the Zoom H6 a reasonable distance away from the band you should get pretty good results with just the internal mics.