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How to Succeed as an Original Band

So much talk here...
After reading the initial post of the goal is to play MSG and get signed to a label I was done with this thread. Sorry for hating, just being honest ;)

I also don't agree with the whole 10 year experience part...a ton of people with 10+ years in the game still don't know what's up.

I think there's a lot to be said for people/the youth who get to learn it on their own. It's nice to want to "coach" everyone, but most need to live and learn. I'm 23 and in a "successful" band, but we learn new things everyday as musicians, band mates, best friends, brothers, writers etc. I'm glad I learned the bulk form experience.

I'm glad you have learned from your experience. You are not a hater, just young. It was once said that "youth is wasted on the young." ;)

You should and have to learn from your experiences. And yes, there are people here who have tons of experience and probably haven't learned from most of it. But those who did not achieve uber success are probably the best teachers. They can tell what they did or didn't do and you can learn from their experience so you don't have to waste time learning that lesson for yourself.

If you look at the history of super successful bands, they all had a mentor or much older, industry savvy person with them. The Beatles had George Martin and Brian Epstein. Dylan and Bruce Springsteen had John Hammond. All along the way artists get mentors who are much older who help them learn the lessons quickly and without having to experience all the drama and crud from them.

This thread is to help those who want the help. So you can choose to follow it and use the advice or you can choose not to. That is your perogative.

And, I changed the rule. You have to give your musical resume with your first post so that everyone knows where the info comes from.

But thanks for reading.... :D
 
Good posts, TR. Briefly on the sweepingly broad topic of drugs, I'll say that the facts about marijuana speak fairly well for themselves. It's a nonaddictive substance, powerfully medicinal, an excellent companion to creative work (though clearly not one's inner source of creativity), and also something that's not always appropriate nor desired. But which simply cannot be lumped in with hard, addictive drugs that really do wreck people's lives.

As John Popper (?) of Blues Traveller sang, "the hook takes you back". Although I must admit for many years I never knew that's what he was singing, because of the long note on "hook". I'd thought it was "heart". That gets into another aspect of getting musical rhythm to match up with lyrical rhythm. I can't remember the fancy word for it.
Every songwriter has a different process, but there are a lot of similarities as well. There are two basic stages to songwriting: the creative phase, and the crafting phase. Some people will go through these in linear fashion, others will bounce back and forth. But I think most will have a larger block of creativity come first, when the song first comes to you. In this stage, you really want to let it flow. Even if you have lyrics coming up that make no sense at first. Let it out with little or no judgments.
But first, it's good to have some idea what you're writing about! For me, it's usually coming from within: things in my own life being expressed, and hopefully, communicated.
So for me, I write from a more personal space, which a lot of writers do. I find the topics of my songs there. But Paul McCartney, for instance, mostly makes up his topics. So one choice is not better than another, but you do need to have something to say. Even if your song has abstract lyrics, you should have a good idea what it's about.
During the creative phase is where I find 90% of my hooks, and its often the first thing that comes. I'll live with that hook and play and sing it over and over and gradually branch out into whichever form the song is in.
A hook is generally lyrical, and most often is the title of the song. It either appears in the chorus, or in each verse. (There are no hard rules however) Where the hook appears relates directly to the FORM of the song. Familiarizing oneself with the forms is worth its weight in gold. Probably the most common song form is verse/chorus.

Examples of hooks in verse/chorus songs:
We all live in a yellow submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine A silly song, but a hit, and the repetition of "yellow submarine", and how the words move in rhythm along with the vocal harmony is brilliant.
And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson, Jesus loves you more than you will know... again the lyrical rhythm is perfect on "Mrs. Robinson", following speech patterns which helps the lyric be understood. (As opposed to "the hooooouuuuuuuu(k) brings you back")
I, Oh-ohhh, I'm stayin' alive, aaaa, I, ohhhh, I'm stayin alive (Pearl Jam) This one is another great example of compositional technique in a hook. The intervals in the melody are 100% evocative of the dogged determination of the hook's "I'm staying alive".

Another song form I overlooked for longer than I'd like to admit is the allmighty AABA, or AACA it's also called. This a song that has no chorus! It's also called 32-bar form, though that can be misleading. This is a very elegant, I feel challenging form to write in that really pays you back for the effort. Consider these hooks from AABA songs:

Somewhere over the Rainbow... Bam. One of the biggest and most well known hooks ever, absolutely sublime in its compositional match to the lyrics. Love or hate the song, you hear that octave jump and then the major seventh on "over" when you see those words. In AABA, the hook is generally either the first line of each verse, or the last.

With love, from me, to you This is an early, very tightly written Beatle (From me to You) tune in AABA where the hook is at the end of each verse. It's also in, I think, perfect 32-bar phrases.

Hey Jude, don't make it bad, take a sad song and make it better Here we have a huge McCartney tune (and hey, this one written from his life, singing to Julian and John) with the hook right in the beginning of the verses. Notice also how McCartney gives us the theme, what the song is about, all in that first line.
There are many variations - for instance also in McCartney's "Let it Be", he's giving us the hook line at the end of the verses, and then going into a chorus of more "let it be's".
In another huge hit, "The Sounds of Silence", Paul Simon is writing in AAAA form (all verses, no chorus/bridge) more common in folk music, and in this example we get the hook at the end of each verse, with the strong melodic interval of the perfect fifth. (within the SOUND...) and the melancholy minor third on "of silence" resolving it.

So, how to find a hook? It's whatever is within you when you're writing that most strongly comes to the surface. It can be very simple, it could be "I'm Mad as Hell (and ain't gonna take it anymore!)" (there's your next country hit)
It can be a truism, or something you hear, as what happened with Ringo's phrase "A Hard Day's Night". If you're a more external writer it can be something like "Walking to the Store", or McCartney's "Penny Lane" - a real place and time, or relate to a historical event. A hook can be anything. In many ways it is the main vehicle that carries what the song is communicating.
There are always exceptions. John Lennon's "Tomorrow Never Knows" has no hook other than its melodic and thematic qualities - a kind of subtle hook on the lines like "it is be -ing, it is be- ing" and "it is believ- ing, it is believ - ing." This is a great song of great impact, but it's probably fair to say it has a narrower appeal. I spent several summers landscaping and never once heard it on the radio, that's for sure.

So when we're writing songs, we have these choices to make. Is this a pitch that's down the middle, is it a graceful curveball, a slider, or is it one in which the pitcher sits down on the mound and starts chanting "ommm"? You can make great art with any of these. Look at an artist like Bowie. Listen to any album of his, and there are one or two that are "down the middle", like his song "Rebel Rebel". Other songs on that album are utterly weird, operatic, thick and dark, heavily rocking - sometimes the critics ****ing hate them and can't wrap their little minds around them because they're not easy pitches.
Maybe easy pitches are harder to throw? It's all relative. But writing songs with good hooks is a fun way to write that is accessible to your audience, while giving some ground or earth if you will to even your weirdest compositions.

(Apologies if the prevalence of Beatle examples doesn't work for someone. I haven't listened to them in years and am just discovering the mono mixes...)
 
Good posts, TR. Briefly on the sweepingly broad topic of drugs, I'll say that the facts about marijuana speak fairly well for themselves. It's a nonaddictive substance, powerfully medicinal, an excellent companion to creative work (though clearly not one's inner source of creativity), and also something that's not always appropriate nor desired. But which simply cannot be lumped in with hard, addictive drugs that really do wreck people's lives.

As John Popper (?) of Blues Traveller sang, "the hook takes you back". Although I must admit for many years I never knew that's what he was singing, because of the long note on "hook". I'd thought it was "heart". That gets into another aspect of getting musical rhythm to match up with lyrical rhythm. I can't remember the fancy word for it.
Every songwriter has a different process, but there are a lot of similarities as well. There are two basic stages to songwriting: the creative phase, and the crafting phase. Some people will go through these in linear fashion, others will bounce back and forth. But I think most will have a larger block of creativity come first, when the song first comes to you. In this stage, you really want to let it flow. Even if you have lyrics coming up that make no sense at first. Let it out with little or no judgments.
But first, it's good to have some idea what you're writing about! For me, it's usually coming from within: things in my own life being expressed, and hopefully, communicated.
So for me, I write from a more personal space, which a lot of writers do. I find the topics of my songs there. But Paul McCartney, for instance, mostly makes up his topics. So one choice is not better than another, but you do need to have something to say. Even if your song has abstract lyrics, you should have a good idea what it's about.
During the creative phase is where I find 90% of my hooks, and its often the first thing that comes. I'll live with that hook and play and sing it over and over and gradually branch out into whichever form the song is in.
A hook is generally lyrical, and most often is the title of the song. It either appears in the chorus, or in each verse. (There are no hard rules however) Where the hook appears relates directly to the FORM of the song. Familiarizing oneself with the forms is worth its weight in gold. Probably the most common song form is verse/chorus.

Examples of hooks in verse/chorus songs:
We all live in a yellow submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine A silly song, but a hit, and the repetition of "yellow submarine", and how the words move in rhythm along with the vocal harmony is brilliant.
And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson, Jesus loves you more than you will know... again the lyrical rhythm is perfect on "Mrs. Robinson", following speech patterns which helps the lyric be understood. (As opposed to "the hooooouuuuuuuu(k) brings you back")
I, Oh-ohhh, I'm stayin' alive, aaaa, I, ohhhh, I'm stayin alive (Pearl Jam) This one is another great example of compositional technique in a hook. The intervals in the melody are 100% evocative of the dogged determination of the hook's "I'm staying alive".

Another song form I overlooked for longer than I'd like to admit is the allmighty AABA, or AACA it's also called. This a song that has no chorus! It's also called 32-bar form, though that can be misleading. This is a very elegant, I feel challenging form to write in that really pays you back for the effort. Consider these hooks from AABA songs:

Somewhere over the Rainbow... Bam. One of the biggest and most well known hooks ever, absolutely sublime in its compositional match to the lyrics. Love or hate the song, you hear that octave jump and then the major seventh on "over" when you see those words. In AABA, the hook is generally either the first line of each verse, or the last.

With love, from me, to you This is an early, very tightly written Beatle (From me to You) tune in AABA where the hook is at the end of each verse. It's also in, I think, perfect 32-bar phrases.

Hey Jude, don't make it bad, take a sad song and make it better Here we have a huge McCartney tune (and hey, this one written from his life, singing to Julian and John) with the hook right in the beginning of the verses. Notice also how McCartney gives us the theme, what the song is about, all in that first line.
There are many variations - for instance also in McCartney's "Let it Be", he's giving us the hook line at the end of the verses, and then going into a chorus of more "let it be's".
In another huge hit, "The Sounds of Silence", Paul Simon is writing in AAAA form (all verses, no chorus/bridge) more common in folk music, and in this example we get the hook at the end of each verse, with the strong melodic interval of the perfect fifth. (within the SOUND...) and the melancholy minor third on "of silence" resolving it.

So, how to find a hook? It's whatever is within you when you're writing that most strongly comes to the surface. It can be very simple, it could be "I'm Mad as Hell (and ain't gonna take it anymore!)" (there's your next country hit)
It can be a truism, or something you hear, as what happened with Ringo's phrase "A Hard Day's Night". If you're a more external writer it can be something like "Walking to the Store", or McCartney's "Penny Lane" - a real place and time, or relate to a historical event. A hook can be anything. In many ways it is the main vehicle that carries what the song is communicating.
There are always exceptions. John Lennon's "Tomorrow Never Knows" has no hook other than its melodic and thematic qualities - a kind of subtle hook on the lines like "it is be -ing, it is be- ing" and "it is believ- ing, it is believ - ing." This is a great song of great impact, but it's probably fair to say it has a narrower appeal. I spent several summers landscaping and never once heard it on the radio, that's for sure.

So when we're writing songs, we have these choices to make. Is this a pitch that's down the middle, is it a graceful curveball, a slider, or is it one in which the pitcher sits down on the mound and starts chanting "ommm"? You can make great art with any of these. Look at an artist like Bowie. Listen to any album of his, and there are one or two that are "down the middle", like his song "Rebel Rebel". Other songs on that album are utterly weird, operatic, thick and dark, heavily rocking - sometimes the critics ****ing hate them and can't wrap their little minds around them because they're not easy pitches.
Maybe easy pitches are harder to throw? It's all relative. But writing songs with good hooks is a fun way to write that is accessible to your audience, while giving some ground or earth if you will to even your weirdest compositions.

(Apologies if the prevalence of Beatle examples doesn't work for someone. I haven't listened to them in years and am just discovering the mono mixes...)

Immensely good post Bardo. I'll forgive you for the majority of Beatles references, especially because you are listening to the original mono recordings. People have no idea how different you record a song when its in mono, and how different and important certain parts are.

I think you really drive home the hook concept with this. "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" is maybe the most sung and known hook ever. I also will point out to the readers that you also begin to introduce song structure with your post. We will definitely touch on this more, but it is perfectly in concert with what I hope this particular portion of the thread is intended to do. Doesn't matter what song structure you use, if the hook isn't there and it doesn't work, the song structure and song don't matter.

A hook is usually lyrics and melody, but guitar parts and melody alone can be the hook, as you point out. I will say that the guitar part in "Turning Japanese" by the Vapors is probably the actual hook more then the verse. The same guitar riff punctuates every chorus and even ends the song.

I am going to let the readers here really digest your post and also ask them to take a good look at some of their songs and see if they actually have a hook nailed.


:bassist:
 
Fantastic songwriting post, Mr. Richards.

After reading through the postings, you DO realize that you're giving away a book here, don't you? Kudos for your generosity!


I knew when I started this thread that at some point if it hit it might become source material for someone's work. I would hope, if that is the case, the author assigns a portion of his proceeds to talkbass.com, as without them this wouldn't happen and probably not any future literary work based on it.
 
I knew when I started this thread that at some point if it hit it might become source material for someone's work. I would hope, if that is the case, the author assigns a portion of his proceeds to talkbass.com, as without them this wouldn't happen and probably not any future literary work based on it.

As I said before in my post of a couple of days ago I've been copying-and-pasting all of Mr. Richards' advice and saving it to a special folder on my hard drive, not to make a book out of it (I wouldn't even know where to begin!) but for my own personal reference. I recommend others do the same. This material is too good and important to be buried somewhere on TB's servers.
 
As I said before in my post of a couple of days ago I've been copying-and-pasting all of Mr. Richards' advice and saving it to a special folder on my hard drive, not to make a book out of it (I wouldn't even know where to begin!) but for my own personal reference. I recommend others do the same. This material is too good and important to be buried somewhere on TB's servers.

I know, my comment was general, in response to the other comment.
 
As I said before in my post of a couple of days ago I've been copying-and-pasting all of Mr. Richards' advice and saving it to a special folder on my hard drive, not to make a book out of it (I wouldn't even know where to begin!) but for my own personal reference. I recommend others do the same. This material is too good and important to be buried somewhere on TB's servers.
No, no, NO - I wasn't accusing you of plagiarism! I am just saying that for all of the nuggets buried here, he could probably bottle and sell it.

Sorry about the crossed wires there, pard-ner!
 
No, no, NO - I wasn't accusing you of plagiarism! I am just saying that for all of the nuggets buried here, he could probably bottle and sell it.

Sorry about the crossed wires there, pard-ner!

Wow, I think this one went right over my head! Absolutely no offense taken, Saxn, as a matter of fact I'm not even sure what you're talking about! But thanks for the apology, you're a class act anyways! ;)
 
I'm glad you are finding this thread useful and full of nuggets. If this thread actually helps one bassist/band on their way to the bigger time, it will have served its purpose. And in the mean time, it gives us all a chance to finally put all that hard earned experience to some good use. Lord knows I wish someone had told me some of this stuff before we signed the first deal. Maybe then I'd be bigger then Bono... :)
 
Well, I haven't yet contributed any relevant info, but I intend to follow very closely and maybe something will come up in the future, so here's my requisite musical background...

I have been a saxophonist for 18 years and change, just took up the bass.

I started playing out part-time around 2000, and I have a grand total of one 'real' studio recording session under my belt for a CD back in 2003. I did a year-and-a-half stint as a full-time gigging musician, working freelance for a number of locals (both cover and original) before packing it in for a line of work that feeds the family a little more reliably. I still do the occasional 'sit-in' for a few rock, blues, and jazz groups in the area. That's about it, so take anything I say here accordingly ;)

Thanks again for a great thread.
 
Fair enough. I like the change.

I'm 23. I've been playing bass since the age of 9, 14 years ago. I've been playing live/gigging since I was 15. I've been in a ton of bands ranging from Electronic, Rock, Post-Hardcore, Pop etc. I've been apart of or recorded on over a dozen records.

A band I was in, in which 3 of the 4 members in my current band are in now signed to Emerald Moon Records.

My current band, The Dialogue, is prepping to shop our 3rd record. It definitely took 3 records, touring, showcasing, and 2 1/2 years of writing/recording etc. to be 100% behind the product we are about to shop.

I've gone through a million different set ups and am extremely happy to say although I have gas I know exactly what I want, what I like and what I need.

Current Set Up:
1971 Fender Precision Bass
1978 Ampeg SVT
2000 Ampeg SVT 810
Korg Pitchblack
Maxon OD 808
Maxon D&S II
EHX Memory Toy
Pedal Power 2+
Zaolla Silverline Instrument Cables
Alessandro High End Speaker Cables

Other gear not used live:
2000 Ampeg SVT AV (for sale)
Maxon AD999
2004 Ampeg B100R

Shopping for another P:
1959-1966 - Rosewood - C Neck

You can check out 3 tracks from my band's upcoming record here:
Link Removed
I'd love to hear feedback.

Live video sample:


Band mates consist of my brother (drummer) rounding off the rhythm section, and my 2 best friends. I love that ;). My brother, the lead guitarist and I have been playing together for over 8 years.

If anyone has any specific questions for me feel free to PM me.

Cheers!
 
Fair enough. I like the change.

I'm 23. I've been playing bass since the age of 9, 14 years ago. I've been playing live/gigging since I was 15. I've been in a ton of bands ranging from Electronic, Rock, Post-Hardcore, Pop etc. I've been apart of or recorded on over a dozen records.

A band I was in, in which 3 of the 4 members in my current band are in now signed to Emerald Moon Records.

My current band, The Dialogue, is prepping to shop our 3rd record. It definitely took 3 records, touring, showcasing, and 2 1/2 years of writing/recording etc. to be 100% behind the product we are about to shop.

I've gone through a million different set ups and am extremely happy to say although I have gas I know exactly what I want, what I like and what I need.

Current Set Up:
1971 Fender Precision Bass
1978 Ampeg SVT
2000 Ampeg SVT 810
Korg Pitchblack
Maxon OD 808
Maxon D&S II
EHX Memory Toy
Pedal Power 2+
Zaolla Silverline Instrument Cables
Alessandro High End Speaker Cables

Other gear not used live:
2000 Ampeg SVT AV (for sale)
Maxon AD999
2004 Ampeg B100R

Shopping for another P:
1959-1966 - Rosewood - C Neck

You can check out 3 tracks from my band's upcoming record here:
Link Removed
I'd love to hear feedback.

Live video sample:


Band mates consist of my brother (drummer) rounding off the rhythm section, and my 2 best friends. I love that ;). My brother, the lead guitarist and I have been playing together for over 8 years.

If anyone has any specific questions for me feel free to PM me.

Cheers!



I like pop, so this is definitely ear candy to me. I listened to a few of your YouTube posts. Your stuff is good. I have nothing in particular to point to. I did notice the use of particular chords and phrasing in a couple of songs, a little repetitive to me. You might want to look at your songs and see if you notice it too. This is common for most bands, as you write well what you like and are comfortable with. I have a couple of songs I never play live in the same sets or nights because of that.

Obviously if you have read through the thread you would know I am recommending your polish your on stage band image and a more choreographed show.


I'm going to be in Aberdeen, MD tonight. If you are playing somewhere between there and Baltimore, let me know. I'll come check you out. Or, we could meet for a brew.
 
I'm no professional musician, but I am a professional something. FWIW, the first step to succeeding by any measure in any endeavor is to get your head right. Aknowledge that failure is always an option, that you will need to work your ass off, and that nothing in life is easy or we'd all be rockstars. Get the starry eyed romance out of your head. No matter what you are trying to succeed at, the reality of doing it is nothing like your perception from jump street. Bear in mind also that making it a profession may not be what you really want to do. As an example my father is an extremely talented photgrapher. I can't recall the last time he just went out and took pictures of stuff for fun. He will seldom pull a camera out of a case unless he gets paid. I do think you need to pick a profession that you will enjoy, but bear in mind that espescially with artistic stuff, it may sound great to do it for a living, but sometimes it's best to keep it as a hobby.
 
I like pop, so this is definitely ear candy to me. I listened to a few of your YouTube posts. Your stuff is good. I have nothing in particular to point to. I did notice the use of particular chords and phrasing in a couple of songs, a little repetitive to me. You might want to look at your songs and see if you notice it too. This is common for most bands, as you write well what you like and are comfortable with. I have a couple of songs I never play live in the same sets or nights because of that.

Obviously if you have read through the thread you would know I am recommending your polish your on stage band image and a more choreographed show.


I'm going to be in Aberdeen, MD tonight. If you are playing somewhere between there and Baltimore, let me know. I'll come check you out. Or, we could meet for a brew.

Thank you sir. I agree about the repetitive nature and playing what you tend to like. We often take an outside perspective into our music by recording "demos" that sound great in Logic using the DI's and Emulators they have. It really does wonders to songs and is the best pre pro tool in my mind.

I could show you videos where we flailed on stage, I flipped my basses (what is wrong with me;)), we ran a 5k plus light show with work lights and Martin 3000watt strobe lights etc. etc., but the music was not as reserved and tasteful as it is now. I did the check numerous times over bringing back some more "presence or putting on more of a show", but then I realized something...my favorite bands are not flailing. They just play extremely well and have impeccable tone, which I'm all about.

I have practice tonight and a few other things to take care of. If not, I'd totally be down to meet for a brew. How often do you come to MD?
 
I'm no professional musician, but I am a professional something. FWIW, the first step to succeeding by any measure in any endeavor is to get your head right. Aknowledge that failure is always an option, that you will need to work your ass off, and that nothing in life is easy or we'd all be rockstars. Get the starry eyed romance out of your head. No matter what you are trying to succeed at, the reality of doing it is nothing like your perception from jump street. Bear in mind also that making it a profession may not be what you really want to do. As an example my father is an extremely talented photgrapher. I can't recall the last time he just went out and took pictures of stuff for fun. He will seldom pull a camera out of a case unless he gets paid. I do think you need to pick a profession that you will enjoy, but bear in mind that espescially with artistic stuff, it may sound great to do it for a living, but sometimes it's best to keep it as a hobby.

I like this post a LOT, especially the first bit. I can't tell you how many times in the past I have tried to put a group together, gotten in touch with (yet another) new musician that had expressed interest in playing out, asked them "so, do you think you can handle (x)?". Invariably the answer comes back something like "Man, I'm a PROFESSIONAL..." and thus begins a slow spiral into a world of heartache, misery, and occasional terror as they refuse to WORK at the BUSINESS of music! I can give numerous examples, but I will spare you the sob stories and just say that the WORK was there and decent livings could have been made - even in my area with no major metropolitan venues- if there were the WORKERS to go get it. I never found them.

In fact, I have lyrics written about this very thing in a blues (what else?) entitled 'The Professionals'.

...I just can't find the musicians to get it produced :scowl:

Moral of the story here is I think that professionalism, generic, is what separates the men from the boys in this business. I ran into good players in spades, but no zero NADA 'professionals'.

Sorry for the semi-rant, but lousybassplayer hit on a nerve there!
 
Not to derail too much, but I really, really think this should be a sticky. This info is too good to eventually get flushed away into the bowels of TB, never to be found again. Members for years to come should take advantage of the knowledge that is here, in this thread.

Now, please continue educating me! :hyper:
 
I like this post a LOT, especially the first bit. I can't tell you how many times in the past I have tried to put a group together, gotten in touch with (yet another) new musician that had expressed interest in playing out, asked them "so, do you think you can handle (x)?". Invariably the answer comes back something like "Man, I'm a PROFESSIONAL..." and thus begins a slow spiral into a world of heartache, misery, and occasional terror as they refuse to WORK at the BUSINESS of music! I can give numerous examples, but I will spare you the sob stories and just say that the WORK was there and decent livings could have been made - even in my area with no major metropolitan venues- if there were the WORKERS to go get it. I never found them.

In fact, I have lyrics written about this very thing in a blues (what else?) entitled 'The Professionals'.

...I just can't find the musicians to get it produced :scowl:

Moral of the story here is I think that professionalism, generic, is what separates the men from the boys in this business. I ran into good players in spades, but no zero NADA 'professionals'.

Sorry for the semi-rant, but lousybassplayer hit on a nerve there!

This is not a rant or semi-rant. You are and have experienced something many do but few get a chance to share. Thanks for putting it here. There are many who claim to be professional, who claim they want to go the distance but they do not or cannot. It is a piece of experience that will help the younger ones who read this.

Yes, you will find many people who say one thing and mean the other.

The first band I was in that was signed to a label died a quick death for the very same reason. We did all the things that it took, got signed. Recorded a demo that the label liked. We at that point were told we would have to move to the left coast for about six months to touch up the demo and then would need to tour for at least another six on the labels terms. Three of the four band members were married, including me. I and a guitar player knew that we were good enough that a one year sacrifice would definitely work out long term for us. The other guitar player and the drummer, however, never realized we would get that far and basically decided to leave, saying that we had achieved more then they ever thought we would. I was surprised because the two of us who decided to give it a go were married and had to deal with a ton of pain with the wives by making the decision to follow the dream, and the drummer was a completely single guy and the other guitar players wife was not a problem.

So, there are a lot of interested but not totally dedicated musicians out there. If you are an original band and want to go beyond the local original club, then you will suffer finding the right mix.

So, there. now you all have something to remember.

And Saxn, thanks for adding to the conversation.
 
Phew. Got through all eleven pages, and yes there's some nuggets in there. Thanks Tom for starting the thread and doing a nice job of managing it, and to everyone who has contributed.

A little about me - After playing bass in local blues bands for 4 years, at the end of 2008 I decided it was well and truly time to chase the dream and put my own band together, playing my originals. I put together rough demos, taking care of vocals, guitar and bass myself, and went hunting for a drummer and guitarist. Progress has been slow with a handful of gigs, trying to find the right line up (recently I've changed back to playing guitar for gigs), but with more songs being written and more recording, and learning a lot about putting a band together from scratch. I'm doing this because I want to do it, and I have my own benchmarks for success that I want to achieve, but money isn't one of them.

So I guess you'd say I'm starting out, yet at the same time I'm about to turn 40, so I'm not sure how much I can offer to the thread, but I will have plenty of questions :D

So, there are a lot of interested but not totally dedicated musicians out there. If you are an original band and want to go beyond the local original club, then you will suffer finding the right mix.

It's this kind of thing that got me searching for threads like this today! So, any tips for what to look for in musicians for an originals band? How do you attract professional, driven, dedicated musicians to your band knowing that there may be little or no monetary return for a long time?

An idea for a future topic - tips on being the band leader, whether that is the frontman/vocalist or otherwise. It's something I sometimes struggle with - balancing being the singer, the songwriter, playing my instrument, as well as organising the band.

cheers,
graham
 

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