How to Succeed as an Original Band

[Adam Bomb]

I'm really overwhelmed with all this stuff.

My band really can't afford much more than some new cables and mics.

We don't have nearly enough money to do anything significant, studio wise.

We don't have the cash to put together press packets.

We're a Christian Prog Rock Band.

In Winder, Georgia.

I don't know how to copyright songs.

I don't want our band to fail. This is my dream, all of our dreams.

I just don't know what to do....

Hi. I haven’t had anything to add until this. Counting my years as a frontman, I have been in gigging bands for over 10 years. Based on that, I would say unto you my friend, Don’t worry about it.

I mean, do what you can. But fretting about what you can’t do will not advance you or your band in any way. This thread is useful I think to hip ppl to issues that will come up or may come up or maybe even have come up. But it is less helpful to read it as a to-do list for any two people trying to jam and have fun.

I’m sure that most of here have been in or at least heard of bands that broke up over premature fights over money. Money issues are a challenge to married people! As a rule, I have not loved my bandmates. When it comes up, it is good to be informed and prepared, and this thread is a good intro into that. (And after this there is the book "This Business of Music". Highly recommend.) It’s even good to be ahead of the game. But jumping the gun is, IMO, a problem with bands. I’ve seen guys go from having a couple of tasty jams to the last 15 minutes of a Behind the Music episode without so much as a tour. It probably only brought out deep emotional issues that would have doomed them anyway, but they way they did it, they played a lot fewer tasty jams.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating head in the sand. It’s good to be smart. Panicked or paranoid, less so. All I’m saying.

So, dude, keep reading, but don’t trip. It’s music! It’s fun. Figure out which of these issues is most important to you, and to your bandmates. The most important one. Learn about that one for now. There's probably not a rush.

Really trying not to be misunderstood here.

--Bomb

 

[TRichardsbass]

I'm really overwhelmed with all this stuff.

My band really can't afford much more than some new cables and mics.

We don't have nearly enough money to do anything significant, studio wise.

We don't have the cash to put together press packets.

We're a Christian Prog Rock Band.

In Winder, Georgia.

I don't know how to copyright songs.

I don't want our band to fail. This is my dream, all of our dreams.

I just don't know what to do....

OP, I'll agree with Adam Bomb here. Don't freak, don't fret. This thread is to give you as much info as possible and to address things in a way so that everyone has maybe a nugget of info that will help them succeed. What is here is general advice, and is applicable in most but not all types of music, venues, et cetera. Use it as a guide, a reference. It is not the law.

A lot of these things can be done without much money. For example a press kit is just a pocket folder and some print outs. You can write your bio, print out your own gig calendar, thanks to computers now you can even take your own photos and print them out for little or nothing. My avatar picture is the one picture most people know me for, and it was taken at a picnic I jammed at by an 18 year old student who had a crush on me. Cost me nothing, and I didn't even know about it until she sent it to me. There are plenty of people out there who will do things for nothing if they believe you are trying to to good things and be a contributing member of society.

Since you are a Christian Prog band I am guessing you occassionally play at services or through the church PA system at coffee houses. If that is the case normally churches have recording gear because they like to tape the sermons for later reference and also for the pastor to use to improve sermons in the future. You should ask your pastor if it would be possible for you to play a few songs at some point when there arent services and have the music director record then through their board.

You will succeed if you have the desire and focus your post suggests. There is a scripture that includes, "...have faith, as in the mustard seed..."

 

[Sundogue]

I'm really overwhelmed with all this stuff.

Take a deep breath. Relax. You sound like your band isn't ready for dealing with most of this stuff, so don't sweat it yet.

My band really can't afford much more than some new cables and mics.

Save up as much money as you can. Number 1 - Get the gear you need to practice together, then...Number 2 - Get the gear your band can play out with, then...Number 3 - Play some gigs and save some money for future needs.

We don't have nearly enough money to do anything significant, studio wise.

Doesn't sound like you are ready for the studio yet anyway. However, if you can find some way to record your rehearsals/writing sessions (no matter how cheap the recording gear is), you can use it to more objectively critique your music.

We don't have the cash to put together press packets.

Anyone have a computer? You or someone you know can do some simple things like take a good band photo, make posters, flyers, brochures, business cards, etc. Or even have someone videotape a rehearsal (setup like a gig) and edit it on a computer and burn it to disc. Press packets need not be done by professionals...especially if you are starting out.

We're a Christian Prog Rock Band.

In Winder, Georgia.

It's the day of the internet my friend. Facebook, MySpace, Bandmix, your own website, etc. Go viral with your music.

I don't know how to copyright songs.

Until you have something professionally recorded I wouldn't worry too much about it yet.

I don't want our band to fail. This is my dream, all of our dreams.

Follow your passion. Don't let anything get you down. Enjoy the ride. It's good to dream and dream big! Remember that you learn more from failure than you do success. If you haven't failed, neither have you succeeded.

I just don't know what to do....

Work on what you can. "Overnight" success stories never really happen overnight and success is fleeting anyway. Work on polishing the band and the music you write for now. Everything you need to happen will happen when it needs to if you take care of what you can and forget about what you can't.

 

[sloasdaylight]

Well, if you can't play a fretless, then fret

 

[korngold]

I've played in 4 or 5 original bands (one that did have some local/regional success), a few cover bands over the course of 23+ years. Kabal mentioned it a few pages ago, but the best nuggets of advice I can give are:

1) Copyright your songs. ...before you post them on Youtube. Before you put them on iTunes, and before you schlep CDs at a concert. It's not that expensive. If you already have materials that have been released on the internet and you don't want to hear someone else playing those songs on ReverbNation, copyright the stuff now.

2) Trademark your band name. My band from 20 yrs ago had another band with the same name attempt to release an album. We were local, they were national, but we held the trademark on the name. Long story short, they had to pay us a good sum of money to allow them to use the name. Somewhat ironically, the band I just got into may change their name because another band trademarked the name 9 months ago. Unfortunate thing is, this (my new) band has been together 5 years and has quite a local following. If they had TM'd the name years ago, we wouldn't have to change the band now.

 

[OPBASSMAN1994]

OP, I'll agree with Adam Bomb here. Don't freak, don't fret. This thread is to give you as much info as possible and to address things in a way so that everyone has maybe a nugget of info that will help them succeed. What is here is general advice, and is applicable in most but not all types of music, venues, et cetera. Use it as a guide, a reference. It is not the law.

A lot of these things can be done without much money. For example a press kit is just a pocket folder and some print outs. You can write your bio, print out your own gig calendar, thanks to computers now you can even take your own photos and print them out for little or nothing. My avatar picture is the one picture most people know me for, and it was taken at a picnic I jammed at by an 18 year old student who had a crush on me. Cost me nothing, and I didn't even know about it until she sent it to me. There are plenty of people out there who will do things for nothing if they believe you are trying to to good things and be a contributing member of society.

Since you are a Christian Prog band I am guessing you occassionally play at services or through the church PA system at coffee houses. If that is the case normally churches have recording gear because they like to tape the sermons for later reference and also for the pastor to use to improve sermons in the future. You should ask your pastor if it would be possible for you to play a few songs at some point when there arent services and have the music director record then through their board.

You will succeed if you have the desire and focus your post suggests. There is a scripture that includes, "...have faith, as in the mustard seed..."

Thank you. I just kind of got a bit frantic. when I look at things as a big picture, not as steps, I tend to freak out at the magnitude. And no, we don't play services. We've played a lock in, have an upcoming 20 minute at my church (my cousin, a WHITE CHRISTIAN RAPPER will be there too, he gets 10 minutes.), for the youth. We play in churches primarily, though. We're recording our gig this saturday.

I"m planning on posting a youtube link for it anyway, so maybe something will come from that.

Good idea, too, about asking about recording some afternoon.


Thanks for the advice TR.

 

[OPBASSMAN1994]

So, how do I copyright our band name????

 

[JohnMCA72]

So, how do I copyright our band name????

You can't copyright a band's name. You can trademark it, though.

http://www.uspto.gov/

 

[TRichardsbass]

Okay, we did the press kit thing. So off the business end for a day.

Yesterday I attended the 16th Anniversary of the Saint Nite Club in Asbury Park, NJ. It is one of the few in the nation that has survived the ups and downs over the past decades.

I enjoyed the show, headlined by Red Wanting Blue, and I was reminded of something. If you want to be a successful original band, you need to always put on your A game. Case in point, RWB is a very casual band, but on stage it was clearly a show. The lead singer was a great performer and very animated. The rest of the band was tight and everything they did reflected the band image and also complimented the performance.

Contrast that with the local opener, who is one of the more known local dudes but noodled quite a bit, his band was not tight, and they sorta impulsively did a bass and guitar player switch that they clearly had never done or rehearsed before. Yes, it was a laid back show, but being the birthday of a somewhat famous club the audience did have some very influential journalists, two national booking agents and an internet radio show host. The radio show host couldn't stop talking about RWB. The local guy? One of the journalists actually asked me, "What's the big deal about this guy?"

So, always, always bring your A game. Work it all out in rehearsal. Everyshow is a showcase.

 

[hrodbert696]

An experienced female front;

Attractive and under 30 years of age

With respectable experience

Can sing her butt off

Can dance

Personable & Unasuming

Can work the crowd with no effort

This certainly can't hurt

Certainly can't, when you can get it. The little difficulty here is that if a female front is "experienced" in any meaningful way she's probably at least 25 so if she has to be under 30 to be the kind of asset you're thinking, the band gets a five-year run max. Then what do you do? Dump her for a younger girl?

 

[TRichardsbass]

Certainly can't, when you can get it. The little difficulty here is that if a female front is "experienced" in any meaningful way she's probably at least 25 so if she has to be under 30 to be the kind of asset you're thinking, the band gets a five-year run max. Then what do you do? Dump her for a younger girl?

The thing I took away from the front chick post is that you should find a front person, male or female, who can do things like that. An amazing front person always is a plus for any band.

But chicks up front can be a curse as well. Gwen Stefani, Cyndi Lauper, Debbie Harry, Linda Ronstadt, Pat Benetar, Patti Smythe, Kay Hanley, Juliana Hatfield, Aimee Mann. All pretty, all talented, all amazingly great front chicks for bands in their hey day. Soon they become the band, or the band becomes subservient to them. Happens in the industry just about every time.

So if you are an all male band with a female front, be warned. If she is as hot as a VS model, can sing her butt off like Kelly Clarkson, has personality oozing from her pores and she can draw a large male and female base, she's either on her own quick enough or it will go from Tom Richards and the Baby Seal Club - to the Baby Seal Club - to Jill Goodacre featuring the Baby Seal Club - to Jill Goodacre in no time.

A great front person is absolutely necessary to building original band success, as again, you are doing music no one heard before and most likely didn't care about. Good front people add a good attraction to the show. If the front person gets out of line, remember your bass has a longer neck, bigger head and heavier tuners then anything else on the stage......

 

[OPBASSMAN1994]

NICE!.

Luckily, I we don't have that problem. I'm bass, Lead vocals, Keys, and occasional Acoustic guitar. (We're a three piece)

 

[depalm]

"say what you mean, mean what you say, put a beat to it, go!"

 

[sloasdaylight]

Certainly can't, when you can get it. The little difficulty here is that if a female front is "experienced" in any meaningful way she's probably at least 25 so if she has to be under 30 to be the kind of asset you're thinking, the band gets a five-year run max. Then what do you do? Dump her for a younger girl?

I do all those things (well, minus the singing) and I've been in one band in my life and I'm 23. Some things some people just do well naturally, and some things people have to learn how to do. I saw a band at a show about 2 months ago that were absolutely killing it. Tight playing, cool writing for what they were (sort of line an indie-pop-rock band thing) and none of them were over 17.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Good Morning all! No gig last night, so up early today. I am building a new man cave/studio and figured I'd take advantage of the weather today. I am doing some structural work in prep for the contractor coming tomorrow to re-do my entire roof rafter system. The man cave is an old carriage house/stable and is about 100 years old. When its done I'll invite you all over to the man cave warming party.

Today I want to talk about personal conduct. It may sound stupid but I had an experience last night with a teenager that reminded me of what it is to be on your way the right way.

Gene Simmons said it best many times, he doesn't do drugs or drink. And he said he never did (I'll debate the drinking, but I will agree with the drugs for sure). As Gene has said, they lead to nothing good. You may not think he's the best bass player on the planet, but his success in life cannot be discounted.

If you are going to be a successful original band, you must absolutely NOT do drugs. Weed, crack, meth, LSD,ecstasy make you stupid, ugly, dependent, poor and many times in jail (which clearly interrupts your career.) Bands like the Stones and Aerosmith have been very lucky and if you look at the low points in their careers it was when they were not clean. Their music sucked, their albums sucked. Aerosmith came within a few months of losing all their contracts and drifting off into the void of forgotten bands. If your band is using, especially before you have had success, you may as well kiss success goodbye.

Social Distortion is one of my favorite bands. Mike Ness, though talented, is still a mess. Heroin was not his friend. The band has lost members and friends through drugs. John Maurer, the bass player, left the band because after two decades he just couldn't handle all the drug induced mess around them. The success of Social D is not because of drugs, it was lucky to have been at all because of the drugs.

Alcohol. I'm not the best to talk to this because I do drink, but I can say that I have rarely gotten drunk, I have never had more then one beer or shot before a show and have never gotten blasted after a show. It is not only unprofessional, but it will not bode well for you either. I enjoy my alcohol, and have a great liquor cabinet. I find absinthe excellent when I'm writing songs. But again, one or two, not one or two hundred.

The word "lucky" has been used in this thread already many times. You don't miraculously run into luck. You make your luck. You are responsible for your own success and failure. If you do the things you need to, it will put you in the position to be the recipient of "luck." Doing drugs NEVER puts you in a place where you will find success, be seen by someone to help you with success, or bring you luck. Drugs, even pot, basically make you slow, stupid, and put you in a crowd of losers. Sorry if that offends anyone here.

Alcohol can do the same. Getting drunk makes you look stupid, obnoxious and a host of other things. Stumbling around a club or studio will immediately put you on the "lets not have them back" list. Kills your liver. Ask David Crosby.

I am no saint, not anywhere close. And I am not trying to preach here. But last nite I had the "pleasure" of joining a friend as they had to pick up their kid from the police station for getting caught with drugs. The kid, who is a talented guitard, spoke slow, stumbled, and couldn't put two words or thoughts together. The kids reply when dad asked him why he was doing it? "That's just what we do."

Personal conduct decides where you will be in life. Band conduct, the sum of all its members personal conduct, decides where your band goes in life. So you can choose. And those of us in the biz are watching you. We get to decide your fate as a band. We decide, for the most part your success. We are the ones who will sign you to our label, drop you from our label, black list you from the clubs, and decide if or what you get paid. So remember that, 'cause "that's just what WE do."

 

[TRichardsbass]

Here's a new one for today.

Song selection and set placement. Something that original bands need to really pay attention to and watch.

Everyone has what is considered their best song, and you all think about the strongest songs. But do you think about how you arrange them in your sets? Probably not.

I saw a popular local alt band yesterday at a fund raiser. The band was good, but the song placement was about as bad as I've ever seen. It was clear that they played their best song first, followed by crap, crap, crap, crap, decent song, crap and crap. The song they ended with not only sucked but the crowd had dissipated by that point. Thing is, the crowd loved the first song. I had a long conversation with these guys after. I won't tell you what reaction I got, but lets just say that while they may believe they are great, it became abundantly clear to them that no one else believes they are. The drummer and bassist were very open to my critique. The lead singer/guitard, well, I'm sure he still thinks that he knows everything.

But back to my point. Song choice and placement is very, very key. I'm going to tell everyone here to get a copy of the new Springsteen CD/DVD, The Promise, and watch what went into choosing the songs for the album "Darnkess". There were tons of amazingly great songs, however it was a struggle to get the right ones for the album. Original bands need to place at least half that much thought into their set choices.

Always start with a very strong song, and probably your most accessible song. I would choose it based on what people who know your songs say are your best song, and what songs they like and don't like. But do not do your best song there. That would just set you up for disaster.

Your best song should come, IMO, either next to last or last in a single set. You have to leave them wanting more. You also don't want their last impression to be you suck.

Consider carefully how you group and space songs. Ballads should never follow a really rawkin' song. Ballads should never open a show either (unless all you do are ballads). Place ballads and slower songs at 2-3-4 in the set and make sure they are surrounded by material that will keep the audience pumped. In a single set performance, the next to next to last, next to last, and last songs should just steamroll the audience. Early in the set you can play with mood, but if you play with mood at the wrong time you are screwed.

Songs should also be chosen to help naturally place your breaks in the set. So typically a slow song can be preceded by a break (helps in change of musical pace) but should normally not be followed by a break, but rather by a song that picks the mood up. But not a song that blows people away. Too much change of pace loses the audience. My example would be from Elvis Costello. If I were him I'd open with "Peace Love and Understanding", then "Veronica." Story/break. then "Alison", followed by "Red Shoes", quick break then "Pump it Up" then end with "Radio Radio". I think you get the picture.

Flow of a set, where and how the breaks go, and song placement are key to building a fan base and showcasing how professional/mature your band are. I would create and rehearse three sets. One for opening a show, one for middle band in a show, and one for headlining a show. Placement of songs in those will be slightly different and the choices should be made carefully. If you are an opener, normally you have other bands peeps around and you need to catch 'em and hold 'em. You need to set the mood for the night.

Middle bands have the toughest slot because everyone is wanting the headliner, and you are usually crunched with time. This is where you try to set the right vibe for the headliner but make sure people notice you.

Headlining, well, its all your show. Have fun.

So think about set lists, song placement and song choice carefully. Its okay to throw out tons of stuff if it doesn't work. Make sure it will work.

 

[Drop-the-One]

Love this post. For us, in terms of opening vs supporting vs headlining, our set doesn't seem to change much... if it does it's usually decided on the spot. Depending on the state of the audience etc... but we don't discuss it onstage, it's called out and we start.

Our 1st song has an anticipating drum/bass intro that we either drag or keep short, depending on how long we're allowed to play for. If we're opening, or it's a place with lots of distractions, we have that 2nd and use a fairly strong song to start to get peoples' attentions.

The only problem with a d/b intro is it's not in your face enough for 1/2 cut club-folk to realize we're actually playing versus soundcheck or noodling.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Love this post. For us, in terms of opening vs supporting vs headlining, our set doesn't seem to change much... if it does it's usually decided on the spot. Depending on the state of the audience etc... but we don't discuss it onstage, it's called out and we start.

Our 1st song has an anticipating drum/bass intro that we either drag or keep short, depending on how long we're allowed to play for. If we're opening, or it's a place with lots of distractions, we have that 2nd and use a fairly strong song to start to get peoples' attentions.

The only problem with a d/b intro is it's not in your face enough for 1/2 cut club-folk to realize we're actually playing versus soundcheck or noodling.

Thanks for the post. That is what I'm getting at. Bands really do need three different, rehearsed sets. I can understand if you don't have a lot of material, but the key is just that, to have three distinct sets that you know fit the time, place and crowd.

As for the D/B intro, if it sounds like noodling to the crowd, then its not an intro. Think "Mystery Achievement" by the Pretenders. Or "White Lines" by Grandmaster Flash or "Another One Bites the Dust" by Queen. If you can't tell it right away, my advice is restructure it or throw it away.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Regarding setlists, I always felt that the 1st 4th and last 2 songs were the most important.

My thoughts are somewhat similar to Toms:

First song is first impression to anyone in the club that's never seen you. Should not be the big "hit" of the band, but should be IMO one of the best representations of what you do. It has to kick ass, but should also not kick the most ass, as you still need to move up from here and keep people's interest. Also, something The Nerve used to do (pre first song) that worked incredibly well for the type of band that it was, was to actually start our shows with some ridiculous 3 part acapella thing. We had many of them, most TOTALLY non sensical. One of the ones that made more sense opens this video http://www.youtube.com/joenerve#p/u/6/r8wuMyKsTUw . It was insurance that we had everyone's attention before we kicked into the first song. And it worked.

Fourth song I always used as a changer upper. By the end of the third song I think an audience likes to know you can do something different, and that not all your songs are going to be the same vibe. Kind of re-hooks them in, and may grab some others if they weren't into the vibe of the first 3. Also gives a little bit of a rest.

Last song is a no brainer. I always wanted people leaving the club humming our tunes. Whatever we considered our "hit" they'd have to wait for. If there was no "hit" then it was our catchiest most memorable bestest tune!

I said last 2 songs above because ya always have to make provisions for encores, and for the last song being cut by the club. Which happens. Often. Last 2 often have to get juggled and need to be well thought out.

Almost forgot... another thing I consider key. I always like to make the 2nd or third song a cover. When a band is brand new to an audience I think it pulls people in, gets them on your side, and keeps them hanging around possibly hoping for another, which we rarely if ever gave em. Audiences like to have something to identify with.

Last note on this. Unless you have a huge fanbase, short sets are always the way to go IMO. A half hour set leaves people wanting if they like ya, and saves people if they don't. I think it's about making a mark and then moving along. The 2 1/2hr. gig will make anyone sick if it's unkown music, I don't care how excellent a band it is. The 1 hr set is enough to start pushing people out. I like 1/2 hr sets, 45 minutes tops. That's more than enough to give em all you've got.

 

[bluewine]

10 years experience? There are bands that have had multiple gold albums in less than 10 years.

There are a few bands with multiple gold albums that ain't worth didley too.

The criteria was 10 years experience out there breaking yoir back, not multiple gold albums.