How to Succeed as an Original Band

[TRichardsbass]

One thing I'd slightly disagree with, Sloasdaylight/TRichardsbass is the "find a setting that works and remember these settings". I'd replace that with train your ear to be able to HEAR your EQ settings rather than to SEE them. In the long run, I think this is a much more valuable talent to have. With heavy touring, you're going to constantly be playing in different rooms, possibly using different backline equipment. Being able to get a sonically satisfying group EQ in any room is more useful, particularly to the touring band, than remembering a load of settings.

You are correct, over tiime, if you are going to be a successful original band you will have to be able to hear the overall setting of each one and be able to get it right by ear. Or if you are lucky enough, be able to hire a great sound man.

I'm going to agree with Sloas though, as if you are up and coming and heading toward success sometines you have to do the smart thing, right it down or slue your knobs in place.

Unlike when we were youngsters amplification, pre-amplification and effects are just too prevalent and there are infinite choices in gear. Heck, my Hartke LH500 manual comes with a page for writing down different amp settings as I find useful tones so that you can recreate them. And eq settings directly effect volume and cut-through. So if you find a sound that is right where it needs to be, by all means right the darn settings on everyones amp/pre-amp/pedal and use them.

 

[lpbass3]

We went with the approach of playing both covers and originals. We had a good coverband following while we crafted our sound, and always included at least 2 originals a set. This was scawfed at by many all original bands, but we would sell 50 cds at new venues, versus the original bands playing shows together were the audience consisted of the other bands playing a few other fans. We would be playing an hours worth of our stuff same as the all original showcases we did, but mixed into a fluid show that kept people dancing. The biggest advantage this gave us was the money to record and promote, and exposure to a vastly larger audience. The disadvantage was the stigma attached to cover bands in the original circuit. This included other bands as well as agents and promoters, it was not something they were used to. We befriended the local radio dj's, and would do shows for next to nothing at venues paying them to do live remotes. We also latched onto a club that had a live radio show with the local NFL team and got it setup to play immediately after they finished while the players signed autographs. Sadly there is no tried and true right answer. We eventually quit chasing the dream, and now play occasionally for fun and old times sake. Never did get the record deal, did however get a sitdown with a good label. We played with some of our heroes, and played many shows at the venues we would watch national acts when we were younger. Whatever approach you take you have to be creative and relentless, and you have to be good. Video tape yourself and sit down together and watch the whole show. No skipping through the embarrassing parts or the long lulls in show, because that is what you are watching for and have to correct.


Best advice is go to college and have a back up plan for when the industry is done chewing you up, but there is no fun in that approach.

 

[TRichardsbass]

I want to thank lpbass3 above for today's nugget; using video to critique and improve your performance.

While this applies to all bands, cover and original, it is especially important to original bands as performance live is key to successfully launching your own, never heard before songs and in creating interest in your band.

Lets face it, Wicked Lester had a record contract, but never went anywhere. But when it was reformed as Kiss, with some of the same music but outrageous performance and makeup, they went huge. Many of us today would argue the totality of the music and musicianship of Kiss, but no one can argue that they became a super successful original band.

So go out and either have someon video both your performances AND rehearsals or buy a camera and do it yourself. Then sit down and review it. Have a beer, take notes. Make fun of the guitards. But make sure you do an honest critique. Then ask someone you know but isn't on the payroll to do the same. Listen carefully to the critique. Do not take any comment personally, but use it to improve what you are doing.

Like lpb says do not skip through any part. Note long lulls in shows, note how much noodling is between songs. Note good or bad banter. Corrrect the crappy stuff, keep and expand on the good stuff.

Rehearsal video should be used to flesh out how songs sound and look. They also can help you hone what each of you is doing during a song. Its a chance to choreograph what you will do on stage without having to worry about actually being on stage.

So today, lets call it "video is your best tool for improving overall band performance."

 

[OPBASSMAN1994]

I agree. I watched a vid of my band's first gig back a while ago, and noticed how stiff, how BORING I was. I've since come out of my shell and began having fun, and just rocking out. It has made our shows much more enjoyable for us and for the fans.

It's done more for us too, than just helping my stage presence. Our guitarist has realized that he doesn't have to tune after EVERY song. I've improved my amount and quality of my banter. We've also gotten better as musicians. We still have some timing (particularly at endings of songs ) issues, but these can typically be fixed.


Overall, video and audio recording have improved us so much it isn't even funny. Great advice.

 

[BZadlo]

This thread is great!
Subscribed.

 

[lpbass3]

First things first!

Figure out what is success FOR YOU.

Then try to figure out what success is for the band.

Then try to figure out if everyone agrees with that success for the band is.

Proceed...

This is probably the most common cause of band failure. If you are all working towards a different end only one of you has a chance to succeed, and ii isn't a good one because your band is not working towards that.

 

[TRichardsbass]

First, thank you all for the many kind PMs about this thread, and also for the replies that say the same. Nice to know people out there are learning from this and some have actually used some to improve already.

I'm still staying away from songwriting, as that will be a very long piece of the thread and also is one that doesn't get as neglected in an original band (no songs, no band). Songwriting is a craft that takes much learnin'.

Today we will go back to a point made a few days ago. BAND BUSINESS. Its the one thing that usually no one wants to think about, no one wants to actually do, but everyone wants the fruits of the labor.

Original bands usually get paid little to nothing, especially when you are starting out and building a following. Its the nature of the beast, and I have noticed that bands today are actually getting less per show then I did when I was starting in 1978. I remember the second show we did, at a club in Long Branch, NJ, where we were the "headline" act of one of the few original shows they ever did there. There was a $2 cover. Our agreement with the booking agent was $10 per band member (4 pieces) and then half of everything over $200 brought in at the door. At the end of the night we managed to get a "wad" of $90. We were ecstatic.

I did a last minute show last week for a local club. $10 show, I got $3 for each one who came in and said they were there to see me. Seeing how I had less then 24 hours, I still walked out with $60 for an 8:30 opening slot.

I have to run right now, but will finish this thought a little later. I'd like everyone who can to chime in and let everyone here know about what they get per show, or how the booking agents handle and dole out the money for the shows they do.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Okay, so back to the biz. You can see that the money today isn't any different then it was then. Back in the day $90 wasn't much but it would still put gas in the car and food in your mouth and still have a buck or two left over. Today you have to be even more careful with the money you make because the dollars are "precious and few."

The business end of an original band is all about control of funds, raising funds and expending them in a way that is most likely to move your band and career forward so that you can continue to play and not starve. Money management is part numero uno.

To be successful you need to be able to trust who handles the money and how it will be handled. Everything will cost you money to begin. Equipment, rehearsal space, press kits, demos/recording, advertising. Transportation.

Key number one is that if a collective pool of money is necessary to get the band moving, then every member must put in the same amount. Others may disagree with me here, but from experience any time someone foots more of the bill then the others there is resentment, a sense of entitlement and even sometimes a priority or higher importance. Not that some of that is not warranted, but if you are going to be successful as an original band, and more money will go out then comes in, especially early on, you all have to have the same investment. Investment leads to levels of commitment.

If I had a band and asked everyone to put in an initial pot for say fliers, I would ask for an equal amount from everyone. Think about it. If I put in say $100, but the drummer puts in $10, who has the most to lose? And if none of the band stuff works, what skin is it off the back of the drummer? But if the situation were reversed...

So, everyone must contribute financially equally. Equals similar commitment.

After the money is in, then its about managing it. Sounds simple, but many people miss this point. The band pool is like a checking account. Get an empty check register and use it. Record the starting balance. Record all expenditures and who they were paid to. If you are putting all your performance proceeds into the pot, record them and who paid them to you. The check register must be available for everyone to see.

When you manage the money, I suggest making it like some corporations. In many the CFO can authorize an expenditure, but the CEO or COO must sign the check. So I suggest making it that no money gets spent without the whole band agreeing, or if that isn't feasible a discussion with the band then the two people with the most smarts taking the appropriate actions.

So, manage your money like your personal check book. Keep a running register of balance, income and expenditure. Review it at least monthly together.

 

[Sundogue]

Okay, so back to the biz. You can see that the money today isn't any different then it was then. Back in the day $90 wasn't much but it would still put gas in the car and food in your mouth and still have a buck or two left over. Today you have to be even more careful with the money you make because the dollars are "precious and few."

The business end of an original band is all about control of funds, raising funds and expending them in a way that is most likely to move your band and career forward so that you can continue to play and not starve. Money management is part numero uno.

To be successful you need to be able to trust who handles the money and how it will be handled. Everything will cost you money to begin. Equipment, rehearsal space, press kits, demos/recording, advertising. Transportation.

Key number one is that if a collective pool of money is necessary to get the band moving, then every member must put in the same amount. Others may disagree with me here, but from experience any time someone foots more of the bill then the others there is resentment, a sense of entitlement and even sometimes a priority or higher importance. Not that some of that is not warranted, but if you are going to be successful as an original band, and more money will go out then comes in, especially early on, you all have to have the same investment. Investment leads to levels of commitment.

If I had a band and asked everyone to put in an initial pot for say fliers, I would ask for an equal amount from everyone. Think about it. If I put in say $100, but the drummer puts in $10, who has the most to lose? And if none of the band stuff works, what skin is it off the back of the drummer? But if the situation were reversed...

So, everyone must contribute financially equally. Equals similar commitment.

After the money is in, then its about managing it. Sounds simple, but many people miss this point. The band pool is like a checking account. Get an empty check register and use it. Record the starting balance. Record all expenditures and who they were paid to. If you are putting all your performance proceeds into the pot, record them and who paid them to you. The check register must be available for everyone to see.

When you manage the money, I suggest making it like some corporations. In many the CFO can authorize an expenditure, but the CEO or COO must sign the check. So I suggest making it that no money gets spent without the whole band agreeing, or if that isn't feasible a discussion with the band then the two people with the most smarts taking the appropriate actions.

So, manage your money like your personal check book. Keep a running register of balance, income and expenditure. Review it at least monthly together.

Well put. A side of the business that often gets ignored (or at least few want to accept any responsibility for)...the actual business side of it.

 

[3k Mylz]

OP, thanks for doing this. I hope it will help the younger hopefuls and ring out true for many.

The business side of things is ridiculously stressful for many, we want to play the music we believe in and let everything else work itself out. Myself an active band member on and off for 15 years, I have resigned to needing a day job and making my passion suck up the savings account. I like that you mentioned dues in a band; like any other hobby (or lifestyle investment DOY outlook) things cost money. In my situation there are some unable to provide much monetary contribution, but a band needs to figure out a way to expand investments, say $10 a week OR put in 3 extra hours of studio time, or make a few calls to venues, et cetera.

Many a club in the towns I have resided sacrifice quality for low overhead; my band is constantly bumped to an opening or closing role to keep our fanbase in the bar, hindering our ability to add to our followers. Am I whining about having limited fans? No; it's actually smart business. Typical tactic everywhere I'm sure. But that's being in an original act. Send a presskit, refer your myspace, whatever to advertise draw and still be told at load in "if 50 don't show for your band, I am not going to have enough to pay out"... Lot's of things to check up on through the night. All for 60-120 at the end of it all.

I tried a different approach a few times, and it has actually worked a little. I wrote a contract to the venues where we had more than an hour set. Did a raffle in between 1st and 2nd set, giving away a few of our CD's. Used the stubbs for draw proof (No cover) and poof: payday at a predetermined scale. Our best paid shows to date.

 

[lpbass3]

This is why we always went with the approach of staying out of all original clubs. We had the ability to bring in $1000.00 a night or more once we established a following. We still played at least an hours worth of originals a night, sandwiched between similar covers. We played an acoustic set so we could put our songs next to yesteryear hits, and electrics with other popular music. We financed t-shirts and merchandise first, making sure that giveaways did not drop us below at least 10-15% profit, so that fund only needed funded once. Then on to PA, and recording. Our biggest mistake: buying a bus. You can all travel together, even take a few fans(if you are thei ride home they are more apt to help load out) and you get all of the gear at the same time, and we traveled with our own PA. However you are locked into one vehicle, and maintenance was murder. I strongly recommend a small solid trailer, most vehicles can be equipped to haul it, and you aren't locked into a bad vehicle once problems start. I also strongly recommend not incorporating unless you have someone with experience in tax preparation and accounting. You can quickly find a tax lien on yourself for estimated taxes, even when the band is losing money. Earnings tax reports had me on the lien list more than once, and then it was a ton of paperwork to get it straightened back out. We now use one members ss# and do deductions off of that then split any money due. I recommend having that agreement in writing though.

 

[BardoBass]

On the point of diminishing $ for bands, inflation is often forgotten. It's much worse than money being the same as 1978 when $100 in '78 is $320 today. (inflation calculator is fun)
Or, in today's money, the OP's band would have gotten $28.

 

[Just Bill]

Not sure what it's like out there now but I'll give you an idea of what it was like when I was playing in Los Angeles in the 90's.

My room mate's band was playing the Sunset Strip clubs (Gazzarri's, Roxy, Whisky, etc, et.al.) and all of the promoters for these clubs were using a system of "Pay to Play".

The typical band would be booked for an off night. When you agreed to the booking, the promoter would hand you 100 tickets and tell you that you had to sell them for $5 ea. However, you would have to pay him the $500 up front. He would tell you that you could sell them for as much as you wanted and anything over the $5 was money in your pocket.

Until a band had a decent enough following, they were usually stuck selling tickets for $2 ea. or giving them away and begging people to come to the show.

After you proved that you a) had enough of a following to bring people in or b) had enough money to keep buying tickets & giving them away, you would get booked on better nights. A band had to be a huge draw to get paid, i.e. Warrant.

The clubs that I played were places like the Coconut Teaszer, Anti Club, Raji's, English Acid, etc. We didn't get paid but we never had to buy tickets from the promoter, either.

Am I officially an old man, telling a version of a "10 miles, uphill, in 5 feet of snow" story, now?

Not sure what the point of all of this was. Hey, you kids get offa my lawn!

 

[bluewine]

I have not read any of the quotes here, but I will add my 2 cents.

I was in a sucessful originals band for a year. I would bet there are tons of great ideas posted.

Has anyone brought up the value and what the "Female Front Person" can bring.

An experienced female front;

Attractive and under 30 years of age

With respectable experience

Can sing her butt off

Can dance

Personable & Unasuming

Can work the crowd with no effort

This certainly can't hurt

 

[kesslari]

I don't know if this has been mentioned directly, so I'm going to throw in another little nugget of wisdom here regarding:

Sonic space.
The trouble that I see a lot of bands get into, and it's mostly in sort of the prog scene, which is what I'm into most, is that players are stepping over each other all the time, and my band still struggles with this nearly daily, as I'm sure most bands do.

The single biggest problem that I see with a lot of local original bands is that there is no definition to the individual parts that are getting played. Guitarists are fighting in the competition for who can be the loudest, drummers are adding unnecessary fills, bass players are taking mini solos during bridges, etc. This kind of ties into "knowing your sound" but it's something that's more fundamental than that because it deals with the composition and arrangement of your songs. You have to know when to let the music breathe, and when, despite the fact that you have a killer fill for this particular part in a song, it may not need to be there, and may be distracting from the general direction and sound of the band.

Be conscious of overplaying. Generally, if you think you might be pushing it, chances are you are. There is nothing wrong with a bassist playing simple lines in a song, and sticking to them, same with a guitarist or any instrumentalist that's in your band. The idea is to succeed AS A WHOLE and not as a collection of virtuosos who showcase their talent every chance they get. This is the biggest problem that I find my band has, and it's something we're working on day to day, but it takes time. Don't expect to be able to change things in one practice, because it's a personality thing, but be aware of it.

Also a part of this, that comes down more to the mix of your songs, is the EQing of your parts. This is something that can set bands apart from others. If you know for example that your guitarists like to scoop their mids, find where they scoop them then adjust your eq appropriately to match. If you're digging the scooped mids sound, then go with it, but know that your bass will be difficult to hear in the mix. Bump your mids and specifically your low mids a little bit and you'll come through well, but not be over bearing. Have your guitarists do the same. When you check levels in the practice space, check to make sure that you can hear everyone clearly if you can, and remember the settings, then when you go to a gig, at least you've done what you can to make sure no one is stepping on one another.

tl;dr version: If you think you or some one else is overplaying, chances are they are, and learn how to eq your band in the practice room as best you can, so you can at least have your part done when you go to shows.

I'm a day or two late, but will chime in here with more than a +1.


My funk band just started working with a producer who has produced some heavy cats, including the Neville Brothers.
The main things he is doing in working with us:

1. Making sure our parts work TOGETHER, and that we are listening to one another to MAKE the parts groove, not just each playing our part and figuring it will all work out.

2. Making sure that we're occupying different parts of the sonic spectrum.

3. Generally simplifying.

Leave some space. You never know, some real music might leak out there.

 

[worxforme]

I've played in both O and C bands for more years than the rules demand and I think that if you learn covers you become a better original band.

Learning covers helps you write better songs. If you take the time to record the covers and try to get every nuance of the original recording it gives you a lot more insight into the ingredients.

Many original bands have good songs and have great musicians but their songs just aren't great songs, so... they aren't great.

The first original band I played in was the former and the band I play with now is the latter, so I have experienced my opinion.

 

[dj150888]

Something that I think makes quite a lot of sense. Before you spend a penny on your band, if you're remotely comfortable with paperwork, is register your band as a business and claim your VAT back on ANY remotely connected cost. In the starting days of the band, you're not going to be making money, so you won't be losing a penny, by the time you ARE making enough money for tax to be relevant, if that ever happens, you should be doing this anyway.

What are peoples general opinion on this?

 

[Jason P Bass]

Something that I think makes quite a lot of sense. Before you spend a penny on your band, if you're remotely comfortable with paperwork, is register your band as a business and claim your VAT back on ANY remotely connected cost. In the starting days of the band, you're not going to be making money, so you won't be losing a penny, by the time you ARE making enough money for tax to be relevant, if that ever happens, you should be doing this anyway.

What are peoples general opinion on this?

Tax situation is slightly different in the US, but it's smart to be ahead of the game.

We have no VAT, but I pay something like 32% tax on what becomes my spending money for the band. But if I keep my receipts and declare them as business expenses (which, sadly, did not turn a profit) those expenses are tax free. So it's like getting an additional 32% off on anything spent on the band.

I've spent close to $6,000 on my band this year, so that's a meaningful refund.

This is not tax advice, do your own homework.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Okay guys, so far some great money advice. Since we are talking money, and how to account for what you spend, lets talk about what to spend it on.

This is Original Band Marketing 101.

All bands, cover or original need a press kit. ePress kits are all the rage now, but I still say to be successful you need both e and hard copy versions. There are tons of books on it, but I'll give you the overview. A press kit is:

1. A pocket folder in black, white or a specific band color. For most, I recommend shiny black. On that folder front should be a sticker or artwork of your band (one of my previous projects had a sticker/picture of a fractal as it was the band symbol). Also on the front of that folder should be the band name, contact info (manager, booking agent or other contact name), contact phone number, address, email address, band url (if you have one) as well as your facebook and myspace address. This should all be in plain, clear print and large enough to easily read.

2. left pocket:
a. band bio - description of the band style, a little about how you formed, influences. Don't forget the names of the band members, the instruments they play, any endorsements the band or individual members have as well as any awards, contests you've won and any notable clubs/opening/headline slots you've had.

b. band calendar - print out of your shows as booked for the month, quarter, season or year, depending on what you have. Indicate which ones are headline or opening.

c. Press clippings

3. Right pocket:
a. 8X10 band photo/head shot. Preferrably black and white, matte finish. Glossies don't reproduce as well.

b. Stickers, poster templates, post cards - anything that the band uses to advertise and get your name out.

c. dvd/cd - all your press kit info electronically, plus your demo/songs. Best song first. All the same style. If you have a video of a live performance that is good, put that on it as well.

4. Business card - usually pocket folders have a place for a business card on the pocket. Put your band one there. I recommend using Moo.com for cards. Many choices and also some unique shapes available.

You need to create/pay for the materials for enough of these to give to all the clubs you want to play at, all of the radio stations you hope to have play our music on air, all the local newspaper entertainment reporters, the record companies you want to someday sign you or at least see you, and then plenty to keep in each of your band members cars/briefcases. Never be without one. You NEVER know when you will run into someone influential or important.

Since a demo is in the kit, this is also something you must have to be successful. I will say unless you are really good with portable home studios like the Zoom R16 or any of the other brands, and unless you have a great grasp of recording software like CuBase or ProTools, you need to go to a local studio and have a decent one recorded. You don't need more then three songs. The demo needs to have enough polish that is sounds professionally recorded. It has to sound close to what you sound like live. And by that I mean you should not have recordings loaded with synths and effects if you are a three piece band with only guitar, bass and drums and you don't play with recorded tracks in your live performance. The demo not only gets their attention based on if they like the song or not, but also gives them a sense of how professional and experienced you are. Worst thing for an original band is to have a Jeff Lynne overproduced demo and then sound like crap and not like anything on the demo.

Equipment. Most original bands will play at clubs that already have and provide sound. So investing in a PA for rehearsals/shows is optional. Bassists should invest most of their dollars, and band dollars if that is the agreement, on a good pedal that is also a DI. It is worth its weight in gold as the sound guy at the clubs will get your eq'd signal to amplify and he won't be able to screw with your basic sound, as we all know that bass is 99% of the time taken direct. An amp for practice and gigs needs to be at least 100W.

Merch. Spending money on merch is an interesting proposition. Early on it has nominal value, as you will definitely not make money off it. It is only for advertising your band image and name. Stickers are usually a good investment and help propel your band name. Obviously copies of your demo or recorded CD. Until you really hit it big or have done the Warped Tour more then once loads of merch just take up room in your touring vehicle and are what the consumer marketing world calls "loss leaders."

Copyrights and legal paperwork. A must. Record a song? Copyright it. Register with BMI and ASCAP. And join the AFM. All costs that are worth it and help you move forward and are deductible as expenses against income.

Insurance. Insure your instruments, unless all you own are SX basses. Regular gigging bands ALL experience theft or loss at some time. I hate it when it happens, but knowing that I have something to pay to replace it is great. Most of us learned this lesson after having the first set of equipment stolen or having some drunk pour a pitcher of beer into your vintage tube amp that has been cranking all night.

My tip for today. Time for the rest of the TBers to chime in.

 

[OPBASSMAN1994]

I'm really overwhelmed with all this stuff.

My band really can't afford much more than some new cables and mics.

We don't have nearly enough money to do anything significant, studio wise.

We don't have the cash to put together press packets.

We're a Christian Prog Rock Band.

In Winder, Georgia.

I don't know how to copyright songs.

I don't want our band to fail. This is my dream, all of our dreams.

I just don't know what to do....