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How to Succeed as an Original Band
- Thread starter TRichardsbass
- Start date
Yes, and I'll take that a step further.
Perform each action as if it were your last. Everything you do. It raises one's awareness of themselves, involves you intimately in the here and now and leads to impeccability in all you do, including your music.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
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- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
The Grateful Dead had a look. They were recogniseable. There almost certainly was more thought put into how they walked on stage than just grabbing whatever was closest to hand in their wardrobes.
Its all about making people talk/recognise you really.
No, Garcia was recognizable...
Based on reading about the Dead, and seeing them repeatedly... I'll have to disagree.
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- Jun 3, 2009
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- Bassgearu, Music Industry Consulting and Sales. Tech 21, NBE Corp, Sonosphere.
Take a look at the early PR shots of the Dead. They had a look, and it was thought out. As they morphed over the years they all probably didn't worry as much, and of course their style of music actually lent it to this "look".
I usually hear this "argument" when I do small seminars in my area. My experience is that it often comes from a guy who played locally but never even came close to having a record deal or even had any regional success.
There is always someone who will comment about this or that band and how in 1969 everyone just showed up and played. Then they start talking about the Allmans, yada yada. Well, this isn't 1969. Funny thing, didn't the Beatles and the Stones each have a coordinated band look when they started out, and don't the Stones even today have a selected "costume" on stage? I know this much, I've never seen Mick out on the street in what he wears on stage. Look was always important and still is today. By the late 1970's a band "look" really started to become very important and part of the formula needed to at least start to become a successful band.
While there are always exceptions to the rule, having a look and putting some thought into your band appearance and what you look like on stage is important. And what I'm trying to do in this thread is give advice about the things that increase your chances of being able to do the original band thing successfully.
My experience is that looking like a serious professional band, having some thought about who you are as a band, is very key to building your future in original music.
I usually hear this "argument" when I do small seminars in my area. My experience is that it often comes from a guy who played locally but never even came close to having a record deal or even had any regional success.
There is always someone who will comment about this or that band and how in 1969 everyone just showed up and played. Then they start talking about the Allmans, yada yada. Well, this isn't 1969. Funny thing, didn't the Beatles and the Stones each have a coordinated band look when they started out, and don't the Stones even today have a selected "costume" on stage? I know this much, I've never seen Mick out on the street in what he wears on stage. Look was always important and still is today. By the late 1970's a band "look" really started to become very important and part of the formula needed to at least start to become a successful band.
While there are always exceptions to the rule, having a look and putting some thought into your band appearance and what you look like on stage is important. And what I'm trying to do in this thread is give advice about the things that increase your chances of being able to do the original band thing successfully.
My experience is that looking like a serious professional band, having some thought about who you are as a band, is very key to building your future in original music.
Thanks, precisely the point I was trying to make. You made it much better than me
This is a very timely thread since I'm going to embark on putting together a blues band myself, which will start out with "covers" (and aren't they all?) and as we write new material it will be thrown in there until we have converted over to an all originals blues band.
I'm of the opinion that originals are better accepted if you mix in some covers that are in the same genre/style of your originals. It keeps people focused on the style of music you write like and play, keeps their interest with "choice" covers (those that are recognizable yet are the epitome of the style you write like) and allows you to engage the audience without losing them before they've had a chance to digest "your" new music.
I've done this before and it did not take long before we could perform an entire four hour night of ALL originals and have them not only accepted, but garnered an enthusiastic following. If the music you write is truly good, and you throw it in among some similar styled "covers" (and by that I don't mean tired old worn out ones, but those that have merit along the style you write like) people will be far more likely to accept it and probably ask you later about your music..."What bands did those songs you played last set?" Of course it should go without saying, but some might argue the point, so I'll add this...Since you want to do originals, any songs you do cover should be done like a "remake" and not done note for note. Doing covers in this manner helps set up your own music's acceptance because people will not think of you as a cover band.
Hitting people over the head with only originals may turn people off before you've even had the chance to turn them on. Honestly, doing some covers is a time honored tradition that even the most successful bands have done.
I'm of the opinion that originals are better accepted if you mix in some covers that are in the same genre/style of your originals. It keeps people focused on the style of music you write like and play, keeps their interest with "choice" covers (those that are recognizable yet are the epitome of the style you write like) and allows you to engage the audience without losing them before they've had a chance to digest "your" new music.
I've done this before and it did not take long before we could perform an entire four hour night of ALL originals and have them not only accepted, but garnered an enthusiastic following. If the music you write is truly good, and you throw it in among some similar styled "covers" (and by that I don't mean tired old worn out ones, but those that have merit along the style you write like) people will be far more likely to accept it and probably ask you later about your music..."What bands did those songs you played last set?" Of course it should go without saying, but some might argue the point, so I'll add this...Since you want to do originals, any songs you do cover should be done like a "remake" and not done note for note. Doing covers in this manner helps set up your own music's acceptance because people will not think of you as a cover band.
Hitting people over the head with only originals may turn people off before you've even had the chance to turn them on. Honestly, doing some covers is a time honored tradition that even the most successful bands have done.
Age: 23
playing for 7 years, played in both covers and original.
Some good stuff in here but I think there's some important info missing (sorry if it was mentioned, didn't read every post)
Know copyright laws and get your music copyrighted by the library of congress. I've heard alternative ways of copyrighting but all of that is BS. If you're an original band get familiar with copyright laws right now if not already. Your music/riff/whatever can get stolen and make other people money. (If that's what you're worried about)
Own your own publishing. This is also important when it comes to making money because its the publishers who get your music out to people for other uses like advertising. This is what labels want and how they make those absurd figures!! Its easy to start your own company but I'm unfamiliar with various state laws that govern them (some may require a yearly fee or some kind of tax).
If you own your publishing then you can affiliate yourself with various performance rights organizations (PROs). These guys (ASCAP, BMI, SESAC) are the ones that collect your royalties from places/organizations/everyone who uses it, but unless you're the next pop princess don't worry too much about these just yet. They're also the people that can sue you if they catch you playing a song from their catalog without their permission in a place that doesn't have a license from them.
Get on the NET!!! Keeping up with social media is key. Get your music on iTunes and other websites that will sell your music online.
Forget the idea of a record label coming in and making you an offer. It was rare at its pinnacle and even rarer now. The artist is now the label. All that boring stuff that labels used to take care of is now in your hands.
But should an A+R person come to you at a show and make an offer don't just hop on it like a horny toad!! The first offer is not likely the best and if you sign anything this person gives you, that's it you're locked in. And should another label come sniffing down the road well you've already signed something with the other label and they won't just release you because you ask nicely, oh well!
Have fun and be honest. I saw other people mention this and I'm glad they did. If you're not having fun then no amount of image or practice will make you appealing to other people. I don't care if its metal or a Gaga cover band, have fun!!
Be honest with yourself about your band. If you're constantly clashing with the other members on a basic level then forget it. If you're not honest in your writing then out the other ear it goes!! If you're sound has a scene then go to it or get in touch with it somehow through networking. There's always gig swapping.
If you only have one good album's worth of material/ideas who cares??? Album sales are down and the single is where it's at!! You wanna get noticed by a label with your concept album??? Go back to your mom's basement!!! (LOL)
But in all seriousness, mainstream consumers only care about the single. If you're going for a mainstream sound start reading this post from the top again.
Use your fans!!! If you have a following then surely you have one of those "crazies." This is a perfect opportunity!!! get them to run your websites and all that crap, they'll do it out of love leaving you more free time for writing and other tasks.
Don't just play anywhere. If you're a metal band showing up to a country western crowd you're not going to get any points there. If you're the nail that sticks out in your town start organizing your own shows. I'm not saying play once a year but just because you play a hundred places doesn't mean you walked away with more fans each time.
I do have to disagree on one point made earlier about how important image is. Maybe its just my area but I see A LOT more focus on image and A LOT of lackluster songwriting. Yes image is important to a degree but it's not at the top. You can have swagger, dress like pimps, and walk around with Reagen-esque cohones, but if you suck, you suck. BUT if what you're doing really is new and fresh, together, and performed with conviction that's when the other stuff can come into play.
And I include myself in the "suck" category. I've written crap, performed like crap, and been a crappy band member and I'll probably do it again (hopefully not the band member one haha). But I love music and writing and performing, for what it is. Money's not my personal goal with music but this stuff is important whether it's money or the message. Of course we all gotta eat right?
LET'S HOLD HANDS!!!!
playing for 7 years, played in both covers and original.
Some good stuff in here but I think there's some important info missing (sorry if it was mentioned, didn't read every post)
Know copyright laws and get your music copyrighted by the library of congress. I've heard alternative ways of copyrighting but all of that is BS. If you're an original band get familiar with copyright laws right now if not already. Your music/riff/whatever can get stolen and make other people money. (If that's what you're worried about)
Own your own publishing. This is also important when it comes to making money because its the publishers who get your music out to people for other uses like advertising. This is what labels want and how they make those absurd figures!! Its easy to start your own company but I'm unfamiliar with various state laws that govern them (some may require a yearly fee or some kind of tax).
If you own your publishing then you can affiliate yourself with various performance rights organizations (PROs). These guys (ASCAP, BMI, SESAC) are the ones that collect your royalties from places/organizations/everyone who uses it, but unless you're the next pop princess don't worry too much about these just yet. They're also the people that can sue you if they catch you playing a song from their catalog without their permission in a place that doesn't have a license from them.
Get on the NET!!! Keeping up with social media is key. Get your music on iTunes and other websites that will sell your music online.
Forget the idea of a record label coming in and making you an offer. It was rare at its pinnacle and even rarer now. The artist is now the label. All that boring stuff that labels used to take care of is now in your hands.
But should an A+R person come to you at a show and make an offer don't just hop on it like a horny toad!! The first offer is not likely the best and if you sign anything this person gives you, that's it you're locked in. And should another label come sniffing down the road well you've already signed something with the other label and they won't just release you because you ask nicely, oh well!
Have fun and be honest. I saw other people mention this and I'm glad they did. If you're not having fun then no amount of image or practice will make you appealing to other people. I don't care if its metal or a Gaga cover band, have fun!!
Be honest with yourself about your band. If you're constantly clashing with the other members on a basic level then forget it. If you're not honest in your writing then out the other ear it goes!! If you're sound has a scene then go to it or get in touch with it somehow through networking. There's always gig swapping.
If you only have one good album's worth of material/ideas who cares??? Album sales are down and the single is where it's at!! You wanna get noticed by a label with your concept album??? Go back to your mom's basement!!! (LOL)
But in all seriousness, mainstream consumers only care about the single. If you're going for a mainstream sound start reading this post from the top again.
Use your fans!!! If you have a following then surely you have one of those "crazies." This is a perfect opportunity!!! get them to run your websites and all that crap, they'll do it out of love leaving you more free time for writing and other tasks.
Don't just play anywhere. If you're a metal band showing up to a country western crowd you're not going to get any points there. If you're the nail that sticks out in your town start organizing your own shows. I'm not saying play once a year but just because you play a hundred places doesn't mean you walked away with more fans each time.
I do have to disagree on one point made earlier about how important image is. Maybe its just my area but I see A LOT more focus on image and A LOT of lackluster songwriting. Yes image is important to a degree but it's not at the top. You can have swagger, dress like pimps, and walk around with Reagen-esque cohones, but if you suck, you suck. BUT if what you're doing really is new and fresh, together, and performed with conviction that's when the other stuff can come into play.
And I include myself in the "suck" category. I've written crap, performed like crap, and been a crappy band member and I'll probably do it again (hopefully not the band member one haha). But I love music and writing and performing, for what it is. Money's not my personal goal with music but this stuff is important whether it's money or the message. Of course we all gotta eat right?
LET'S HOLD HANDS!!!!
I'm think the song "Tinseltown Rebellion" by Frank Zappa pretty much sums up all of what's being discussed here.
Go find the lyrics if you don't know it
That and the entire Joe's Garage album.
Go find the lyrics if you don't know it
That and the entire Joe's Garage album.
- Oct 7, 2000
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- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
My best tip:
Find a successful band. Join it.
-----------------------
Other than that I whole heartedly agree with TRichard's image post. If you're defining success by playing packed clubs that are singing the lyrics to your songs (something I'm happy to have experienced), image means more than just about anything else.
One of my lesser posted videos. http://www.youtube.com/joenerve#p/u/23/gjdkYc8iwRE . Image and stage persona had just about everything to do with drawing the kids we drew. And giving out craploads of free music.
If ya liked that, this ones better.
http://www.youtube.com/joenerve#p/u/6/r8wuMyKsTUw
Find a successful band. Join it.
-----------------------
Other than that I whole heartedly agree with TRichard's image post. If you're defining success by playing packed clubs that are singing the lyrics to your songs (something I'm happy to have experienced), image means more than just about anything else.
One of my lesser posted videos. http://www.youtube.com/joenerve#p/u/23/gjdkYc8iwRE . Image and stage persona had just about everything to do with drawing the kids we drew. And giving out craploads of free music.
If ya liked that, this ones better.
http://www.youtube.com/joenerve#p/u/6/r8wuMyKsTUw
i dunno....i think the uniforms that the beatles et al sported came from managers that thought they "knew" what the kids wanted to see....i recall them looking pretty much street clothes early on,and they sure didn't keep the mop top thing going for long after they didn't have to....same with the animals,stones,who,moody blues.....even me....glad we didn't go that route,even in the days before cell phone cameras....it's rock n roll.....come as you are is kinda the idea iirc....
Here's the thing with image. I agree with TR on it, because, at least when you're starting out, you have to do everything you can to get people to latch on. Once you've made it, and established yourself and have a die hard following (i.e. The dead, The Beatles, etc) then you can look like John Lennon in the late 70s, or Gerry Garcia.
- Jun 3, 2009
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- Disclosures
- Bassgearu, Music Industry Consulting and Sales. Tech 21, NBE Corp, Sonosphere.
I always enjoy the banter when it comes to image. And this was some great conversation. So I hope the people out there find the nuggets that work for them.
Today's topic. MUSICAL CONSISTENCY!
I'm still going to avoid the specificity of songs and song writing.
Want to have a leg up on all the other poser bands out there? Play and write songs that are consistent. Worst thing any band can do is mix styles and genre when you play and especially on your demos! I just got an email from a band that was looking for me to manage them and I really liked the first song, which was in the vein of All American Rejects. Then the second song was like alt-country. WRONG ANSWER!
One thing a label and club owner want is a band that plays well in the style they choose. The band above has been trying to book both alternative original dates and alt country dates. The Alt clubs wont' give them gigs. The country clubs won't give them gigs. I talked to the country dude and he told me exactly what I already knew. He thought the band was very talented, but he wasn't sure if he booked them if they would play all alt country or if they would mix in pure alt rock.
If you want to be successful as an original band, you have to choose a genre and style and stick to it. If you are country, be country. If you are punk, be punk. If you are classical, be classic. All the songs on your demo have to be the same style and genre. Your set has to be all the same type as well. Club owners need to know if they are booking national act who plays, say, Irish folk music, then supporting acts need to be in a similar vein so that they have a consistent show for the whole night.
It may sound like obvious advice, but its pure truth. Consistent music style. If you understand this you will be lightyears ahead of a lot of other bands.
Today's topic. MUSICAL CONSISTENCY!
I'm still going to avoid the specificity of songs and song writing.
Want to have a leg up on all the other poser bands out there? Play and write songs that are consistent. Worst thing any band can do is mix styles and genre when you play and especially on your demos! I just got an email from a band that was looking for me to manage them and I really liked the first song, which was in the vein of All American Rejects. Then the second song was like alt-country. WRONG ANSWER!
One thing a label and club owner want is a band that plays well in the style they choose. The band above has been trying to book both alternative original dates and alt country dates. The Alt clubs wont' give them gigs. The country clubs won't give them gigs. I talked to the country dude and he told me exactly what I already knew. He thought the band was very talented, but he wasn't sure if he booked them if they would play all alt country or if they would mix in pure alt rock.
If you want to be successful as an original band, you have to choose a genre and style and stick to it. If you are country, be country. If you are punk, be punk. If you are classical, be classic. All the songs on your demo have to be the same style and genre. Your set has to be all the same type as well. Club owners need to know if they are booking national act who plays, say, Irish folk music, then supporting acts need to be in a similar vein so that they have a consistent show for the whole night.
It may sound like obvious advice, but its pure truth. Consistent music style. If you understand this you will be lightyears ahead of a lot of other bands.
On the other hand, if you're able to play and write different styles well, club owners also take that into account.
Bingo! Well put. I'm currently in a cover band (not for much longer as I put together my original blues band) that does a variety of music to appeal to a dance crowd, but with regards to genres it's all over the place. Clubs hire us, though repeat gigs at those places are getting harder to come by. What crowds are there at the start, thin out as the night progresses. The "leader" of the band blames drunk driving laws, cigarette bans, etc. but the real reason is a night of music that is such a mix if styles that nobody really has a feel for what to expect. It's basically a wedding band trying to do the club thing.
I think it's even more important (when doing originals) to be consistent with genre, so that your band becomes associated with something crowds will feel an affinity for. If they come to listen to one particular genre (be it heavy metal, or acoustic rock, blues, country, what-have-you) then they expect to go to that club feeling that's what they're in for ALL NIGHT LONG.
While people may have an eclectic mix on their iPod, when they go to see a live band they have expectations of an evening of (insert genre here).
What a perfectly timely response as I just had this conversation with one of the guitarists in my new blues band regarding our set list and originals...that no matter what we actually write for originals, whatever makes it into the line-up absolutely must stick to the blues format. Because we all have such diversity of styles in our backgrounds, we have written a lot of songs in many other styles over the years, but they aren't making it into our set list for the very reasons you mentioned (no matter how good they are otherwise).
Excellent point!
- Jun 3, 2009
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- Disclosures
- Bassgearu, Music Industry Consulting and Sales. Tech 21, NBE Corp, Sonosphere.
Since you are based in FL, please tell me a little more.
I can play, sing and writer killer blues (not my personal opinion, the opinion of others and based on some blues tunes I've sold) but no club owner calls me up to ask me to play blues nor has any label ever asked me for an album full. Maybe its how well established I am, but I occassionally have pulled out the Stevie Ray in me and got looks of shear horror and amazement. I only do that very rarely and only at clubs where I know the owner and booking agent know me well. I am expected to play punk when I'm booked.
I am not sure what you mean by your statement that club owners will take playing and writing other styles into consideration. Do you mean they will book you for say a country show if they know you can write and play country, even if you only play one country song in your set? Or do you mean they will ask you to play a set of country tunes for an opener for a major country act because even though they've never heard you do a consistent set they know you can do country. Please expand on your point, as I am sure many of us here haven't had that experience nor would they agree.
Well what I'm saying, and perhaps I phrased it poorly in the first post, but my band plays a sort of alt-prog but with vastly different sounding songs; and it's worked to our benefit thus far with regard to opening for some of the National acts that have come though State Theatre in St. Pete. We've been offered shows opening for bands from Travis Meeks (which we did acoustically, a departure from our SOP, we had a ho down to close out that set even, that was pretty great), to Karnivool, to just recently Vertical Horizon and Drowning Pool both of which we unfortunately had to turn down due to scheduling conflicts.
Like I mentioned in my "resume" with my first post, we're pretty much one of the first call bands with the head booking agent there because we've brought the show with sets that are completely different, from show to show, but are able to fit with the general feel of the night and the headliner coming through and put on a consistently good show from start to finish.
A few thoughts:
Image is important. You are going up on a stage to perform in front of an audience! You are a "professional performer." Dress accordingly. Think about music from about 1920 through the early 60s. If you were a musician, you wore a suit and tie when you were performing!!! And, up untill the "grunge" thing happened that made it OK to wear street clothes, musicians from the 60s - 90s almost always dressed to preform.
I'm in Texas and it get's hot here,,, but guess what - I still wear my big boy pants when I get up on a stage and perform. Even if it's outside and 100 degrees, I'm wearing jeans. It would be great to dress like Bob Weir, I'm sure I'd be a lot cooler, but that look doesn't say "I'm hear to put on a show for you... I'm hear to entertain you... I spent some time actually thinking about this and planning it out, now enjoy the show." Wear a get-up like Bob's and it says "I'm just some dude who spend most of my time in my mom's basement, and now I'm hear on a stage, without putting any thought into it, so listen to me."
I love the Dead, and Bob... but there are a few things that need to be said about that. He looks silly! But at the time that photo was taken he (and the Dead) were already huge! He's probably playing an outdoor festival and has been on tour for months. And just because Bob doesn't look cool there, don't forget about the other "image" things that are going on that you can't see in the picture. For example, there are probably stacks of amps and speakers behind him with cool grille cloths, flags, gear, etc... all that is part of image and look too.
One of my bands did a few shows where we brought a whole living room set with us... carpet, chairs, end tables, lamps, and even an old 8track that we would play during set breaks.
It's not just how do YOU look on stage, but how does your BAND look on stage. How does the stage look. -- something to think about for some the micro / di guys... Half the fun of going to a show for me is seeing all the gear, how it is set up, etc...
Image is important. You are going up on a stage to perform in front of an audience! You are a "professional performer." Dress accordingly. Think about music from about 1920 through the early 60s. If you were a musician, you wore a suit and tie when you were performing!!! And, up untill the "grunge" thing happened that made it OK to wear street clothes, musicians from the 60s - 90s almost always dressed to preform.
I'm in Texas and it get's hot here,,, but guess what - I still wear my big boy pants when I get up on a stage and perform. Even if it's outside and 100 degrees, I'm wearing jeans. It would be great to dress like Bob Weir, I'm sure I'd be a lot cooler, but that look doesn't say "I'm hear to put on a show for you... I'm hear to entertain you... I spent some time actually thinking about this and planning it out, now enjoy the show." Wear a get-up like Bob's and it says "I'm just some dude who spend most of my time in my mom's basement, and now I'm hear on a stage, without putting any thought into it, so listen to me."
I love the Dead, and Bob... but there are a few things that need to be said about that. He looks silly! But at the time that photo was taken he (and the Dead) were already huge! He's probably playing an outdoor festival and has been on tour for months. And just because Bob doesn't look cool there, don't forget about the other "image" things that are going on that you can't see in the picture. For example, there are probably stacks of amps and speakers behind him with cool grille cloths, flags, gear, etc... all that is part of image and look too.
One of my bands did a few shows where we brought a whole living room set with us... carpet, chairs, end tables, lamps, and even an old 8track that we would play during set breaks.
It's not just how do YOU look on stage, but how does your BAND look on stage. How does the stage look. -- something to think about for some the micro / di guys... Half the fun of going to a show for me is seeing all the gear, how it is set up, etc...
Also, if you actually have the balls to dress like Bob Weir, cool. BUT, your cargo shorts from Old Navy don't count the same as Bob's super 70's short shorts!!!
