How to Succeed as an Original Band

[mambo4]

But the idea that you can do A,B,C, etc. and automatically land big-time success is a bit misguided, IMO.

That I agree that nothing is "automatic". But we should focus our efforts to maximise our exposure to the good luck.
There is a ton of stuff that bands will do/fail to do that will sabotage their own opportunities if they assume it's luck that will get them success.

you identify these thigns as "luck":

(paraphrased)
-having a certain degree of natural talent
-an ability to write and perform music that connects with masses of people
-make the right connections with... musicians, producers, concert promoters, record execs, etc, at the right time.
-Timing - how your music fits in with the zeitgeist/pop trends

I think that a lot of the factors you identify as luck above are in fact skills you can develop, and circumstances you can pursue.

You can study, practice and acquire more "talent"...dedicated, sustained effort inevitably trumps talent in the long run

You can study songwriting as a craft, and nurture a sincere appreciation and affinity for music with broad appeal
(or define a more narrow audience for your "success" threshold that is in line with the music you love to make)

you can keep abrest of the scene and develope connections with the current musicians, producers, promoters, labels
(again, defining a more narrow audience reduces teh choices to a practical level)
Connections come from finding and being a part of the "scene" that is your particualr band's pond.

Timing with zietgiest may seem more like luck than anything else.
But I think that there is a lot of work done below the surface of any pop culture pehnom that we never see,
and it gives the illusion that it 'just happens' to coincide with some trend.
You can get a lot of mileage out of pursuing your own small corner of the larger culture.
Lady Gaga was presumably a big NYC club hit before she became a rediculous pop diva.
Metallica was by word of mouth considered the quintessential Metal act before they ever appeard on MTV and became obscenely huge.
The Beatles were the best band in liverpool before they were Fab...etc

There are things you can control and there are things you can't ("luck"),
but between those two is large area of things you can influence, if you are of a mind to try.
over time, with sustained sincere and intelligent effort, you can increase the circle of influence to inlcude more and more "luck"

Of course there are no gaurantees, unless you fail to even try.

 

[Tampabass]

I agree with much (most) of what you say regarding the value of hard work, study, being part of your scene, etc.

But this: "dedicated, sustained effort inevitably trumps talent in the long run" is not true, historically.

Someone with unique and unusual talent is more likely to break through the "clutter" of music & media than someone who merely works really hard.

I'd revise your statement to say it this way: Talent + dedicated, sustained effort always trumps talent alone in the long run.

 

[aztomr]

I always thought luck was defined as preparation meeting oppurtunity.

 

[Sundogue]

I don't want to get into the discussion about cover versus original and if you should start as a cover band then graduate to original. In my experience in NJ that never works. Once you are branded a cover band, and especially if you are a very well known one, you are stuck there. The Benjamins are a great example. They recorded their own CD of original material. No one buys it, nor do they care (which is unfortunate as these guys do have talent.) There is another band who I will not mention their name out of respect, but they have a couple of originals in their set and the crowd becomes crickets and grabs a beer everytime they play them.

I agree, everyone needs to understand the root behind the music. I don't know any original band, even large ones like U2 (I still love their version of All Along the Watchtower), who don't throw in covers, especially on tour. Unfortunately in the current business the labels want to see original acts, not pure cover acts.

Even most well known acts do covers...heck, they even record covers, especially these days. It's been a longstanding tradition, from way back with the blues tipping of the hat to those who came before.

I'm not saying an all cover band is doing this (certainly not in a tribute to their inspirational roots), but I think it is not only a great way to pay tribute to those that inspired the music you write and play, but also a way to mix the known with the new.

I've been playing for over 30 years and have spent the majority of it playing both covers and originals (sometimes both at the same time with different bands). I've had lots of success on my own terms even though nothing panned out on anything more than a regional scale with pitiful sales of home grown recordings. Still, music was created, performed and enjoyed. What more is there? Unless of course, you include being chewed up and spit out by the entertainment business at large in search of fame. Anyone remember Andy Warhol? Everyone gets a shot.

IMO, if you want to do originals, do it because it comes from the heart. Write what inspires. If you're doing it for fame and money then you get what you deserve, and that cuts both ways. You better be doing it for the love of it because the competition is unbelievable and your love of it may be all you end up with.

 

[TRichardsbass]

You know Sundogue, your post is a great insight for upstarts. "Be doing it for the love of it because the competition is unbelievable and your love of it may be all you end up with." Well put. And very true. And your experience is very relevant as well.

I like your tag line and it too is great for the subscribers here, "Create your life. Make it a masterpiece." Thanks for that.

 

[UncleFluffy]

Experience: Just a bedroom / beer with friends bassist here, but have run clubs / been self-employed / worked as road crew on and off for 20+ years and am married to a gigging bassist. So I can throw a couple of practical tips that may be of value:

1. If there are dollar bills involved, it's a business. Learn to stand back from the day-to-day stuff, and the fun stuff, and the musical stuff, and the personality stuff ... and analyse what you're doing from a cold hard business perspective. That means - at a minimum - understanding cash flow, making sure all the numbers add up properly (and nothing's leaking out of the band ship) and being able to plan at least six months to a year ahead. Keep copies of everything (the IRS may want to pop by and ask questions), and get all agreements that involve money in writing if possible.

2. Keep your stuff organised. Being disorganised wastes time and means you're going to get caught out not being able to find something when you don't have time to waste. Ziploc baggies for the little things, bundling wrap for the bigger stuff.

Oh, and as far as luck goes: there's a lot of luck involved, but the harder you work the more times you get to roll the dice.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Today's discussion point. Band "sound". Not "music", as we'll get to that, but band sound. I've had a couple of PMs about this so I figure today is a great day to tackle it.

The interesting thing about being in an original band is the fact that no one really knows what the song is supposed to sound like, at least not the first couple of times you play them. So what they hear will be what you decide. That has its distinct advantages, but also is like a minefield. People will be judging your songs no doubt, and more then that they will be judging your overall sound. Are you too loud? Too soft? Are you a wave of incoherent noise? Are you crisp clean and dry? My definition, for those who want to chime in, is to listen to a famous song that is covered by another band. Any song will do. The song has been tested and we know its good. But do we like the way the other band played it? Do we like the arrangement? Do we like the way it sounds to us?

Band sound is clearly bound by the genre of music you play and the particular style you use. For me for most of my career it has been punk/pop/alternative, so my musical fence is set by the Ramones, Clash, Jam, Smithereens, REM, The Lemonheads, Juliana Hatfield, Aimee Mann, the All and Green Day, for example. So no matter what I play, cover or original, I need to make sure that my sound fits right in there with that, as that is what the audience and well, a label will expect. So my recording and performance has to have the elements.

So that means overdriven (but not purely distorted) guitars, Fendery deeper bass with some cut, something a little more danceable and poppy, and clearly separate and distinct parts for the drums, bass, guitars, keys and vox. No wall of fart or hiss for me.

If you are doing country music, it would be expected that you have clean acoustic guitar, bluesey electric guitar, in many cases some lap steel, more 1-3-4-5 rooty simple basslines (maybe even with some upright) and even some fiddle. Each part clear, distinct and not at anytime over powering or driving over the vocals.

For some of the screamo hardcore punk, that means perfect timing, distorted guitars but with discernable guitar parts (especially if there are two guitars), bass with both an overdriven distortion and clean signal mixed, aggressive vocal performance.

The difference between the upstart and less mature bands and the better, more mature bands is the nuance. I define nuance as intelligently used space and different but complimentary instrument parts. A lot of guys use triplets in their music now, with some space before and after. So, are you just mechanically nailing these? Or do you all hold it a nano second longer to build anticipation and tension? In your country songs, do you launch directly into the chorus of the ballad, or do you pause and really bang the chorus? If there are two electric guitars in your band, does each have its own part and its own, different and unique sound and tone? Nuance.

Mature, professional bands have worked on getting the nuance. They have worked and have achieved some mastery on how to inject some feel and space into the playing. Record labels often use this as one significant guage on if a band is ready to be signed, especially if you are talking about a minor or smaller label. Yes, you gotta have the songs. But if you can't musically articulate them well, many labels will pass. Many fans will pass.

I'll finish it with this point and this is a little homework for ya. Go on YouTube and look up wedding band or wedding orchestra demo videos. Listen to how they execute the music. Then listen to any other band you can find on YouTube (not a wedding band) or even the original artist and notice the differences. You will find wedding bands and orchestras, since they are often just a bunch of hired guns who primarily still sight read each song at the moment, seem mechanical and lack the nuance that a rehearsed, professional band has.

Let me know...

 

[mambo4]

I'd revise your statement to say it this way: Talent + dedicated, sustained effort always trumps talent alone in the long run.

I can agree with that. I'd even modify it:
a little Talent + a lot of hard work trumps a lot of talent alone.

I guess I really don't think talent per se is so much an elusive, non-quantifed attribute that you either "have it or you don't"

I think that anyone who has an affinity for music will noodle around and eventually display some degree of "talent."
I have also seen my share of people who pick up music and demonstrate a reasonable degree of talent/skill ,
only to become discouraged and filled with a sabotaging degree of self doubt, telling themselves "I don't really have the talent"
when closer to truth is they don't have the motivation or will to overcome their own doubts.

But I suppose some people could just suck

 

[Sundogue]

You know Sundogue, your post is a great insight for upstarts. "Be doing it for the love of it because the competition is unbelievable and your love of it may be all you end up with." Well put. And very true. And your experience is very relevant as well.

I like your tag line and it too is great for the subscribers here, "Create your life. Make it a masterpiece." Thanks for that.

Thanks. I firmly believe that one should do whatever they truly have a passion for and then give it everything they possibly can. If one goes about it knowing they're giving it their best shot, even if they don't achieve fame and/or riches they'll at least have created the life they set out to live. If one is in it for the money or attention, then they're putting their life in someone else's hands. Then only fame and fortune will suffice and anything less will feel like failure.

My tag line is more about fully living and enjoying the journey of life in the moment, instead of only thinking about a future destination one is trying to achieve. If we think in terms of having the ability to actually create our lives (which we do), then life becomes this masterpiece you live with gratitude just as it already is. Feel like you've already arrived, and enjoy the process along the way. Then you're already a success. Everything else is just icing on the cake!

Too many people feel like they're happy "if only". For the sake of this thread, many will feel like they've had success, or they'd be happy if only...we'd won the battle of the bands, got that contract, had a better crowd, got that one guitar player, got into this one club, etc.

Be happy NOW! Enjoy the process of being a musician doing what you love. Enjoy the gigs for what they are, enjoy the moments of writing and playing with your bandmates, enjoy life on the road and the skimpy meals and tour bus/van breakdowns. Eat it up and enjoy every single moment of it. Then there are no "if only's". No matter what happens or how it all ends up there is nothing but...I created a wonderful life.

 

[Mooch]

...don't move to the Albany/Capitol Region of New York, that's for sure. What was once a great original scene is now reduced to 100's of screaming "bands". Steer clear!

Maybe its because people have moved on from 80's rock? Just because they're not wearing makeup, mullets, and look like chicks, play solo's for 25 minutes and sing(scream) like banchees doesn't make them not mess up the whole "scene". I'm not even in a "screaming" all the time metal band(I'm assuming thats what you mean here) and really can't stand that type of stuff but I can just hear someone here thats still angry about Nirvana killing his 80's rock.

 

[zachoff]

Listen to a lot of music. Not sure how else to put it but the most creative musicians I know are also those with the biggest and most diverse music collections. It's not all punk or all metal or all funk or all whatever. It's everything from everywhere. Listening to "bad" music will guide you to what not to do.

 

[Zolbol]

My tag line is more about fully living and enjoying the journey of life in the moment, instead of only thinking about a future destination one is trying to achieve. If we think in terms of having the ability to actually create our lives (which we do), then life becomes this masterpiece you live with gratitude just as it already is. Feel like you've already arrived, and enjoy the process along the way. Then you're already a success. Everything else is just icing on the cake!

Now thats some inspirational sh*t right there!!!

 

[aborgman]

yeah, 45 years ago! not applicable.

They are if you live in SE Michigan.

Note - Mitch Ryder is still HUGE here (as are Bob Seger and Ted Nugent).

 

[aborgman]

Want to suck as an original band? Show up to your gigs dressed in whatever you wore that day, get up on stage and play songs then noodle between. Look indecisive, like you don't know what you are doing and where you are going. Don't even look at the audience. During songs move over and talk to the guitard so it looks like you are making fun of the people listening to you.

Man, that sure sounds like a lot like the band that made more money touring 1970-2000 than any other live act.

 

[dj150888]

Man, that sure sounds like a lot like the band that made more money touring 1970-2000 than any other live act.

There will always be exceptions to the rule. This thread is about things that will increase a bands chances of doing well. Its a simple fact that how a band chooses to present itself has a significant impact on how well they do. If a band LOOKS like a band, they're more likely to be noticed, simple as really.


And bands that come on looking like they've been wearing that all day.....I'd bet most of the successful ones have put thought into that, "every day" look and made a conscious choice to have their band look like that.

 

[sloasdaylight]

I'm gonna pitch in my $.02; but first, the obligatory resume.
23 years old, played bass since I was 12.
First band.
Played 15 gigs so far.
One of 2 bands that won recording time from a competition of 20 some odd bands from the area.
One of the first call bands with the Promoter at a big venue in Tampa Bay for national acts, and have opened for Karnivool, Travis Meeks, and Marcy Playground so far, had to turn down a Drowning Pool gig :-(.

Now, onto my tip(s):
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this, because I've skimmed through this thread and haven't read every response word for word, but I will say that something that is absolutely paramount to succeeding as an original band (i.e. playing big time shows with big time bands, getting attention from record execs, blah blah) is the ability to network your ass off. The old phrase, it's not what you know, but rather WHO you know holds very true in the music business, perhaps more so than many other industries. You've got to be in contact with promoters and booking agents often, reminding them about you without smothering them. Make friends with other bands in your area, you never know when one of the bands they're playing with has to drop out of a show, or they do, and they need another band to fill the vacant spot.

You also have to approach every show like it's your last. You never know who is going to be out in the audience, there could be 15 people you don't know there, and one of them is a record exec on vacation or out checking out potential talent. If I remember right, rumor has it that that Maynard James Keenan was at a The Melvins show and that's how that band was able to break out. No gig is just an "on stage practice", they're all equally important, if for no other reason than it ensures that your fans or people there will want to continue to see you, or buy your merch, or CD, or whatever the case may be.

To succeed you need:

1-Good songs. There are a lot of people who write original songs without a hook.
2-Good singer frontman. I have played in a lot of B bands that could have been A bands with better vocals.
3-hard work. Making it in music is harder work with longer hours than other careers.
4-Luck. You really need a lot of luck. The odds are really against an original band making it.

This is a great list, and my bit about networking fits in with number 3, but I'm going to add a 5th, and that's a thick skin and an open mind. You need to understand that just because you think a song is great, that does not mean that the song in fact does not suck righteously to most everyone else. You need to be able to take the criticism of your music, and use it in a constructive fashion, and at times compromise. Also, to use a quote from The most Interesting Man in the World: "Find out what you do not do well, then don't do that thing." Figure out what your band does best and then focus on that, and use practice/jams to develop other sounds/styles, but don't bring them out on a gig unless you're sure they're ready, and even then be prepared for them to flop.

 

[Sam Reese]

As a bassist with 30 years $ experience, and having written and played originals the whole time- the best business model includes both originals and covers. I am a radio station owner that plays independent artists (both local and national) and the best radio programming model is to play unknown artists with occasional "life preservers" (classic artists) thrown in for listener familiarity...there is a parallel between performing and radio...in my world anyway.

 

[mambo4]

there's a lot of luck involved, but the harder you work the more times you get to roll the dice.

My point in 50 words or less
Well said.

 

[zenrad]

Thanks. I firmly believe that one should do whatever they truly have a passion for and then give it everything they possibly can. If one goes about it knowing they're giving it their best shot, even if they don't achieve fame and/or riches they'll at least have created the life they set out to live. If one is in it for the money or attention, then they're putting their life in someone else's hands. Then only fame and fortune will suffice and anything less will feel like failure.

My tag line is more about fully living and enjoying the journey of life in the moment, instead of only thinking about a future destination one is trying to achieve. If we think in terms of having the ability to actually create our lives (which we do), then life becomes this masterpiece you live with gratitude just as it already is. Feel like you've already arrived, and enjoy the process along the way. Then you're already a success. Everything else is just icing on the cake!

Too many people feel like they're happy "if only". For the sake of this thread, many will feel like they've had success, or they'd be happy if only...we'd won the battle of the bands, got that contract, had a better crowd, got that one guitar player, got into this one club, etc.

Be happy NOW! Enjoy the process of being a musician doing what you love. Enjoy the gigs for what they are, enjoy the moments of writing and playing with your bandmates, enjoy life on the road and the skimpy meals and tour bus/van breakdowns. Eat it up and enjoy every single moment of it. Then there are no "if only's". No matter what happens or how it all ends up there is nothing but...I created a wonderful life.

+1 million

Thich Nhat Hanh could not have said it better himself.

 

[mambo4]

Several people have focused on one or two points and cited a hugely successful band as a counter- example. I see this often in other 'advice'-y threads. "so-and so did it, and they're huge!"

it occurs to me that paying attention to what a huge act did after they arrived and you actually heard of them is probably not optimal for a struggling band.

Perhaps we could learn more from what Brian Epstine did in 1959 and 1960 did than what the Beatles did afterwards?