How to Succeed as an Original Band

[panama]

...don't move to the Albany/Capitol Region of New York, that's for sure. What was once a great original scene is now reduced to 100's of screaming "bands". Steer clear!

"Great" is subjective. Lots of these "screaming bands" are making bank these days.

 

[Tampabass]

How to succeed as an original band, a commercially successful band that plays arenas, scores major success at radio, wins Grammys, plays on film soundtracks, gets covered in major music magazines, etc, etc?

A: Hard work. Lots of luck. Payola.

Just kidding, but only a little. In the post-rock era, any original rock/pop band has about as much chance of "breaking through" to the point of at least making a six-figure income for 5 or more years consecutively as any of us does of winning a state lottery.

There are, however, other ways of measuring success.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Still in high school. I'm worried sometimes, because we never have enough practice time. We've got 5 songs in our inventory that are original. we've got several covers. we do both. We want to have a ton of songs, but we can only really practice once a week for 3 hours at our drummers house...

Sometimes I get discouraged.
I've written probably 50 songs in the past 2 or 3 months, but we just don't focus on new original material in the light of our gigs, where we always do some covers. I just don't know what to do. Should we drop the covers? We have one frequented, constant place to play when we want: the youth wing of our guitarist's church (AWESOME PLACE TO PLAY!). I guess we can always do that. Should we just start honing our own stuff to perfection and forget about most covers? maybe throw in a few per gig?

Focus on your sound and stage presence. Hone your performance. Keep some overs, but try to keep the percentage of originals higher then covers. When you rehearse, make it a priority to learn one new original song every two weeks. If you and your band want to be discovered and known for your originals, you have to keep writing and learning new ones all the time.

After my 30 years, when I do shows I have my set that includes 2 covers in a 30 minute set and 3 covers for a 45min-1 hour set. I do a very old school, Ramonesy feel cover of "My Back Pages" by Dylan, as well as a cover of "Brand New Cadillac" done somewhere between Brian Setzer and the Clash versions. Everything else is originals. I always have at least two newly written songs per show and always end with the one hit I'm known for, "Hey What's Your Name."

 

[TRichardsbass]

My advice is:

Whoever is driving the van picks the music.
Whoever is shotgun navigates.
Everyone else shut up.
Also always drink gatorade from the widemouth bottles. They're great to use as lavatories when you don't want to stop the van, just keep the gatorade bottles far from the toilet bottles. Wouldn't want to go looking for gatorade at night and find pee.

Well put for some levity, but you do have a nugget with the bottles. That is pure tour experience, placed in a humorous way. Won't necessarily give you success, but you will be successful in not having a hap-PEE bus ride.

 

[bassbully]

I played with original bands for many years... The only one that came even *vaguely* close to real success imploded when the A&R guys started coming to gigs. Sound familiar?

Any more, I figure that it really comes down to what your expectations are and how you measure success; For me, if someone will let me play original music in a pleasant venue where folks will enjoy it, I have succeeded even if I don't make a dime. But that's me.

+1 You are like my band and myself. We are happy to perform and play music we belive in and stand behind. So far folks dig it and we even ged fed and paid pretty well most of the time..big bonus.

 

[eSmith]

If this is true:

I don't want to get into the discussion about cover versus original

Then one would have to wonder why you would make this blanket statment"

Original bands not only have to be superior performers

Care to explain? I really don't agree at all. There is nothing that says the musical content is any more difficult than anything else and what part of playing originals requires a better performance than someone on stage playing a cover?

In fact, you could dress in all black, not move anything but your fingers and play a slow simple "Original" that is a lot easier than any cover and simply claim thats the style you are looking for. Seems to me that since there is nothing to compair you to as a standard, you could get away with a lot more than if you were covering a tune where everyone in the crowd knew the guitar solo note for note....

I would think in that case your performance better be spot on or everyone in the crowd will notice where with an original, not so important at all....

-eSmith.

 

[ShoeManiac]

And what is true in NJ is definitely not true in other places.

I used to live back east, I used to do sound at a very popular NJ sports bar for the various cover bands. I also used to be in a couple of original bands, so I know what it's like in the NJ/NY area.

But I've lived in CA for the past decade, have done sound and gigged in original bands out here in northern CA. It's a lot different here; even sports bars tend to book original acts over cover bands. There are cover bands out here that do well, but it's a pretty small niche, and they probably make most of their money doing special events, private gigs, etc. Even after a decade of living here, I am still pleasantly surprised at how supportive (relatively speaking) the scene is for original bands out here...

Lunarpollen and I played in one band together and I can vouch for a good deal of what he's saying. The greater New York City area is very rough for original acts that are starting out. It's really much more of a goal destination than a locale that's going to nurture bands from their origins. There are simply more entertainment options that are competing for an audience's attention. And it is very much a jaded audience. This comes from playing in the greater NYC area for almost 15 years at countless clubs.

That being said, there are much more nurturing musical communities on the east coast. But to get to that point of regional touring you need a committed band that can play and is prepared to hit the road. And you also need people who are both dedicated yet easygoing enough to deal with life on the road with one another. If you don't have that basic structure you're bound to self-destruct.

You need to play places that are more inviting to original acts. That means college towns in a lot of cases. Gigs on a college campus can be financially lucrative, but they can also be hard to come by. Gigs at clubs in college towns are a lot easier to come by. And those clubs will generally be filled with students who are looking for something new. Play a club in the Boston area (or any other major college town) and you'll understand this.

Follow that up with a robust social media presence. Between Facebook, Twitter and YouTube's collective pervasiveness in the culture your band needs to have a presence on ALL of these sites. And you need to keep providing your fans with content: video, mp3's, photos, etc. After you manage to generate a significant fanbase with touring and social media, then you can start shopping for serious management that can help propel you to the next level.

 

[Mayers]

I did play in a original band but ... we weren't playing anything remotely close to pop/rock/punk stuff ... you know what you can ear on radio or on VH1/MTV/MuchMusic ...

For now ... you all only talk for band that want to play the game the industry has set. What you do if you want to be more than that ???

 

[TheVoiceless]

Since I began playing I've always been in an original band... Some on labels, some independent, some with expensive publicists, tour support, others without...

One thing has remained true... The only thing that kept any of the bands going are fans. Fans will support you, give you money, spread your music, even inspire you

You've got to attract people and then keep them coming. Play great sure. But, record and release music often. Its super easy to record and put your music out... don't worry about a label. Play cool gigs- Be Creative... Make every show special. Can't get into the venue you want...? Play a house party! Even if 40 people show itl be packed and if you rock out you'll have 40 new fans. Have some merch to sell too(this is important and realistically the best way for an original band to make money). No one buys CDs anymore but they do at shows!

This is it, bottom line is William Hung the American Idol contestant has zero talent but 100's of fans. I don't care how many sweep arpeggios you can play. If your playing to the same five fans, do something different. Or except your place in obscurity.

 

[zachoff]

Talk to people who you know will bag on your material if they don't like it.

I have a couple friends that aren't in any way affiliated with my band (and whose opinion on music I generally share) that I send our practice recordings to & ask them for feedback on songs that are in the works. If they don't like it I can pretty much guarantee it isn't not going down a good path.

Basically, you don't want input from fanboi types when you're writing because they'll most likely think everything is awesome when it's not.

 

[Korladis]

Success unfortunately is truly in the eyes of the beholder. For my case here, I will define success as a threshold and objective:

Success threshold - Having an original band that plays regularly, has a decent demo or local label deal, has some regional fan base and can get paid enough to be able to be a musician as a living, only having to supplement it with the occasional non-musician gig.

Success objective - label signed, world or US tour, some endorsements and the ability to do nothing but play your original music.

I cannot include the type or perceived goodness of music. I always found Kiss to be musically inept, however they are successful beyond any definition. That should not exclude them from being considered here. And as for the millions of bassists who are clearly better musically then me, who have more chops then me, who have better basses then me, but play only in their garage or basement, don't tour and aren't part of a band, well, they don't count.

Does this define it for you?

I think that's a pretty decent success definition.

While it would be nice to earn a decent living from being a musician, my goal is more focused upon getting a large enough fanbase to be able to get signed, put out well-mixed albums, go on tour and have people actually come to see our shows.

If my band landed a spot on one or more European festivals, I would consider that to be a big success.

 

[TRichardsbass]

If this is true:



Then one would have to wonder why you would make this blanket statment"




Care to explain? I really don't agree at all. There is nothing that says the musical content is any more difficult than anything else and what part of playing originals requires a better performance than someone on stage playing a cover?

In fact, you could dress in all black, not move anything but your fingers and play a slow simple "Original" that is a lot easier than any cover and simply claim thats the style you are looking for. Seems to me that since there is nothing to compair you to as a standard, you could get away with a lot more than if you were covering a tune where everyone in the crowd knew the guitar solo note for note....

I would think in that case your performance better be spot on or everyone in the crowd will notice where with an original, not so important at all....

-eSmith.

I say it because it is the truth. That has nothing to do with cover bands comparison, but more with to succeed in the original arena. If I understand you you are saying that original bands can be successful by just standing there and playing a single note. Not true. If someone is coming to listen to you play songs they never heard and are not currently on popular radio or TV, then you have to give them not only killer music but you better be able to put on a show that keeps them engaged as well.

Ever see the Cars live? They barely moved on stage. Their show was boring as heck. The first time they came to Rutgers they sold out the new RAC. They came back a year later, and were even more popular then the year before. They only sold half the RAC. Reason? Because the show sucked. (Not just my opinion. The booking club at RU did a survey after each show to see what was good and bad and used it to book other shows. This came from actual customer surveys.)

I said it before, I'm not going down the cover vs. original in this thread. I'm trying to give up and comers some nuggets to help make them the best they can be.

If you are going to be a successful original band then you have to be the complete package. You must have decent music. You must be good stage performers. You must have a band "look". You must have the persona of a band that is already successful.

I live on the shore. I saw Bruce before he was huge. Back then he was a very quiet kid trying to make music. When he got on stage his personality changed. Ever go to his concerts? Its not just the music, it has always been the show. Over three hours, storytelling, great energy. And the E Street Band is right there with him.

Want to suck as an original band? Show up to your gigs dressed in whatever you wore that day, get up on stage and play songs then noodle between. Look indecisive, like you don't know what you are doing and where you are going. Don't even look at the audience. During songs move over and talk to the guitard so it looks like you are making fun of the people listening to you. Call out to the audience to buy you shots.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Lunarpollen and I played in one band together and I can vouch for a good deal of what he's saying. The greater New York City area is very rough for original acts that are starting out. It's really much more of a goal destination than a locale that's going to nurture bands from their origins. There are simply more entertainment options that are competing for an audience's attention. And it is very much a jaded audience. This comes from playing in the greater NYC area for almost 15 years at countless clubs.

That being said, there are much more nurturing musical communities on the east coast. But to get to that point of regional touring you need a committed band that can play and is prepared to hit the road. And you also need people who are both dedicated yet easygoing enough to deal with life on the road with one another. If you don't have that basic structure you're bound to self-destruct.

You need to play places that are more inviting to original acts. That means college towns in a lot of cases. Gigs on a college campus can be financially lucrative, but they can also be hard to come by. Gigs at clubs in college towns are a lot easier to come by. And those clubs will generally be filled with students who are looking for something new. Play a club in the Boston area (or any other major college town) and you'll understand this.

Follow that up with a robust social media presence. Between Facebook, Twitter and YouTube's collective pervasiveness in the culture your band needs to have a presence on ALL of these sites. And you need to keep providing your fans with content: video, mp3's, photos, etc. After you manage to generate a significant fanbase with touring and social media, then you can start shopping for serious management that can help propel you to the next level.

Excellent post and a great reinforcement about colleges and college towns.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Talk to people who you know will bag on your material if they don't like it.

I have a couple friends that aren't in any way affiliated with my band (and whose opinion on music I generally share) that I send our practice recordings to & ask them for feedback on songs that are in the works. If they don't like it I can pretty much guarantee it isn't not going down a good path.

Basically, you don't want input from fanboi types when you're writing because they'll most likely think everything is awesome when it's not.

Excellent!

 

[TRichardsbass]

I did play in a original band but ... we weren't playing anything remotely close to pop/rock/punk stuff ... you know what you can ear on radio or on VH1/MTV/MuchMusic ...

For now ... you all only talk for band that want to play the game the industry has set. What you do if you want to be more than that ???

If the music you play is not commercially viable, then normally huge success is not possible.

They Might Be Giants are one of my favorite groups, but you really never hear their stuff anywhere. They have sold a lot of records using the viral marketing and to their specific fan base, but they make money otherways in the biz, like tv scores, commercials yada yada. They don't expect to fill MSG so they don't ever headline it.

You can always use social media to try and create the scene or success you want. Maybe you will succeed in breaking the industry hold. You can always create your own show at your own local venue and try and make it something that attracts crowds and fans.

Apple is the largest music force right now. They have already changed the industry paradigm. You still have to play their game though, if you want to sell a million at $0.99...

 

[michael_atw]

10 years experience? There are bands that have had multiple gold albums in less than 10 years.

Win. I found myself offended when I read that. I am 24 years old and have about 5 years in various areas. Guess my advice isn't needed.

 

[lunarpollen]

You need to play places that are more inviting to original acts. That means college towns in a lot of cases. Gigs on a college campus can be financially lucrative, but they can also be hard to come by. Gigs at clubs in college towns are a lot easier to come by. And those clubs will generally be filled with students who are looking for something new. Play a club in the Boston area (or any other major college town) and you'll understand this.

EXCELLENT point!!! For instance, out here I've heard from touring bands that they LOVE playing in Davis, which is definitely one of the biggest capitals of independent music in North America... Even if they've hardly made any money from touring out here in general, they will often make up for it by selling a ton of merchandise to eager kids at their Davis gig...

 

[TRichardsbass]

Win. I found myself offended when I read that. I am 24 years old and have about 5 years in various areas. Guess my advice isn't needed.

I'm not sure why you would be offended. That is like saying I should be offended because I have not been asked to be a member of SCORE (that is an organization of retired executives who provide free and low cost consulting to people trying to start businesses) because I am not retired. I have plenty of advice that may be relevant, but I'm not offended when they give someone advice.

Anyway, I changed the rule if you read the thread. Your advice is always welcome. If you want to give advice just make it clear what experience you have.

For example, you are 24, and you said you have 5 years experience in various areas. What areas? Have you been an A&R assistant with a label for five years? If so say so and then give your answer when a question comes in to the thread you think you have worthy advice about.

Just make it clear so that someone mining the thread for nuggets can understand where the post comes from.

I have been in original bands since 1978, performed regularly in clubs from Boston down to VA, have played at CBGB, the Electric Factory, the Stone Pony and many in between, and was signed to a then small label (now much larger) back in the day (lasted five years but never had a commercially successful release), and we had songs placed in the Puppetmaster movies as well as one that was in a commercial that lasted for a couple of weeks for a candidate in the mid 1990s.

I have also performed as a fill in for several label signed acts over the years and have done bass studio work as well.

I still make a decent living from music, just now more as a band manager, songwriter, web based "studio" bassist. I perform several times a year.

So, that is me.

So, if you have advice that is relevant, give it. Just let us know where your experience is so we understand where you are coming from.

This is supposed to be a helpful thread.

 

[Jason P Bass]

Most of this thread is nonsense bickering, but to toss in my own two cents...

If you're clinging to the belief that luck has anything to do with it, save yourself the trouble - quit now and stay home. There is no luck whatsoever.

You have to work, work, work, and work. You have to sell your own tickets (yes, like a real band ). You have to produce your own marketing. You have to manage your own facebook page. You have to produce your own recordings. You have to the graphic design produced. You have to get your own merch produced. You have to book your own shows. You have to be your own stylist... and I haven't even mentioned the music or the performance.

If you want a record deal, you need to build your own brand, so that a business person can say, "Yes, I am confident that if we invest $50,000 in this business, we will make a profit." If they see you goofing around with crappy artwork, a lazy stage show, poor attitude, no online presence, then they will not want to invest money in your business.

But that's only applicable if you're trying to get a record deal.

There is no luck involved. If you develop a strong brand and present it to the right people, they will see the opportunity to profit by investing in your band, and will seize that opportunity.

The idea that luck is necessary is simply an excuse for failure, IMO. FWIW, I have never signed a recording contract, and it's not because I'm unlucky. It's because the original bands I've been in needed work, work, work, and more work.

 

[TRichardsbass]

Most of this thread is nonsense bickering, but to toss in my own two cents...

If you're clinging to the belief that luck has anything to do with it, save yourself the trouble - quit now and stay home. There is no luck whatsoever.

You have to work, work, work, and work. You have to sell your own tickets (yes, like a real band ). You have to produce your own marketing. You have to manage your own facebook page. You have to produce your own recordings. You have to the graphic design produced. You have to get your own merch produced. You have to book your own shows. You have to be your own stylist... and I haven't even mentioned the music or the performance.

If you want a record deal, you need to build your own brand, so that a business person can say, "Yes, I am confident that if we invest $50,000 in this business, we will make a profit." If they see you goofing around with crappy artwork, a lazy stage show, poor attitude, no online presence, then they will not want to invest money in your business.

But that's only applicable if you're trying to get a record deal.

There is no luck involved. If you develop a strong brand and present it to the right people, they will see the opportunity to profit by investing in your band, and will seize that opportunity.

The idea that luck is necessary is simply an excuse for failure, IMO. FWIW, I have never signed a recording contract, and it's not because I'm unlucky. It's because the original bands I've been in needed work, work, work, and more work.

Thanks Jason!

You have hit the basics on the head. You make your own "luck". And that comes from a lot of work before you even pick up your instrument.