I prefer playing originals instead of covers;I have played in both situations. I was in a band that put out one album on our indie label and another album by Bulletproof Records.We toured for a little while with a very small budget.It was a very educational experience. If I had to do it all over again I would utilize todays technology to do the promotion and whatnot.
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How to Succeed as an Original Band
- Thread starter TRichardsbass
- Start date
I find it as interesting the play between:
1) guys with good day jobs that can afford the higher quality gear, and
2) guys trying to eek out a living doin the best they can with the gear they have
3) guys that have made it and don't have to worry about gear anymore
the attitudes in the #1 group are found all over TB and other forums. I find myself in group #1.
the attitudes of the #2 group are often not vocalized, because they can't afford anything but what they got
the attitudes of the #3 group are never vocalized, because they have better things to do with their time than rag/brag on gear
so if you're looking on TB for info on gear, you're probably going to hear mostly from group #1, sometimes #2, and never from #3.
1) guys with good day jobs that can afford the higher quality gear, and
2) guys trying to eek out a living doin the best they can with the gear they have
3) guys that have made it and don't have to worry about gear anymore
the attitudes in the #1 group are found all over TB and other forums. I find myself in group #1.
the attitudes of the #2 group are often not vocalized, because they can't afford anything but what they got
the attitudes of the #3 group are never vocalized, because they have better things to do with their time than rag/brag on gear
so if you're looking on TB for info on gear, you're probably going to hear mostly from group #1, sometimes #2, and never from #3.
- Oct 7, 2000
- 18,619
- 38,942
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
Sorry, but yes. Almost completely. Only part I can agree to is that it's important to have reliable equipment, but definining that by price or name on the headstock has nothing to do with it.
I had $1200 American Fender P deluxe that had everything that possibly could break down on it. Could not take that bass to a gig without a backup, and actually got screwed once because I did. And I had a Squier active Jazz that was my main gigging bass for a heavy year of cover gigs. Never had a problem with, it sounded completely awesome, and it still does. By the same token I've owned Behringer equipment that I never had a single problem with, and gear costing quadruple the amount that was nothing but trouble. The Memory Hotel in LI has a Behringer in it's backline for about 6 years worth of cover band abuse, and they never had any issues. Yes, you'll find people who've had problems with them (and they'll claim "you get what you pay for"), but have you ever checked how many GK amps wind up getting sent back? I had 2 of them myself. I think there are lots and lots of "name" brands that have a much higher fail rate than some of the cheaper equipment.
I think if your equipment is serving you well and working night after night it's much better to invest in backup stuff than to think that I few hundred extra is going to buy you some sort of reliability insurance.
And as much as I hate SXes I believe someone would be infinitely safer going on a tour with 2 SXes, than one MIM Fender.
- Jun 3, 2009
- 3,330
- 399
- Disclosures
- Bassgearu, Music Industry Consulting and Sales. Tech 21, NBE Corp, Sonosphere.
Thanks Joe, great discussion. As you would expect I normally carry two basses to every gig, and I always have my 60 watt old Peavey Basic 60 in the car in case the Hartke has some problem. I can say that my Hartke gear has been uber reliable over the past 20 years, but always carry something spare.
I agree, especially today, that the quality of imports is getting very good. I was blown away at how the Brubaker Brutes sound and play. I did find that you will find an issue here and there with the stock pickups, but the body and neck are great. So, if I were to buy another Brute I'd replace the electronics and then have quite a giggable bass. But I wouldn't rely on the bass as is.
Same with SX. I purchased two from the local pawn shop this past year. One was pretty good, and the electronics were just a little scratchy. The other was a mess. Neck had twisted a touch, and the overall fit and finish was different then the other. I believe the better one was a touch older. I replaced the pickups and touched up the wiring and pots and the first SX was pretty worthy.
However, for the cost of the SX and the better pickups, if you added in what it would have cost me to have someone do it for me, I'd have been better off scouring eBay for something like an old Guild Pilot 601 or 602, or maybe a "vintage" Westone.
As for electronics, its hit and miss. I agree you can get crap from "US", as Ampeg had for a while as well as others, because they off shored the production but didn't understand how to properly specify the QC in China nor how to inspect it themselves prior to shipping to the US.
I still think, by and large, better quality is better quality, and while you can find it cheaper then you would otherwise by being a dilligent shopper, usually a higher priced item will come with the higher quality.
It may be just perception, but i'm thinking Fender would drop the Squier line or name completely if it was good enough to just call Fender, like they did in the old days with MIJ or they do with MIM. I do think the quality has really come up since about 5 years ago, but I still shy away from it.
After more than ten years, the best advice I can give is, as soon as possible, get out of your town, and play for complete strangers. Your homeys, your townies, anyone connected with you is a suspect in defining relative weakness. Obviously if you aren't ready don't start out 100 miles away. YMMV.
- Jun 3, 2009
- 3,330
- 399
- Disclosures
- Bassgearu, Music Industry Consulting and Sales. Tech 21, NBE Corp, Sonosphere.
You hit it right on the head, an essential piece of the puzzle. While building a great local following is essential, you can overplay your area and also will not expose yourself enough, even with YouTube, iTunes and the billion blogs and sites out there.
You'd be surprised how hard it is to get some of the young talent here to go the NYC to see shows and also to play shows. Asbury Park may have a great scene, but NYC exposes you soooooooo much more.
So, thanks for the adder! Go play somewhere that isn't home, and that usually means starting 25 to 30 miles away then quickly looking for an hour or two from home.
You hit it right on the head, an essential piece of the puzzle. While building a great local following is essential, you can overplay your area and also will not expose yourself enough, even with YouTube, iTunes and the billion blogs and sites out there.
You'd be surprised how hard it is to get some of the young talent here to go the NYC to see shows and also to play shows. Asbury Park may have a great scene, but NYC exposes you soooooooo much more.
So, thanks for the adder! Go play somewhere that isn't home, and that usually means starting 25 to 30 miles away then quickly looking for an hour or two from home.
And there is also the old adage, "A prophet will never be accepted in his own town."
Right or wrong, perception is reality and people tend to think "greatness" comes from "someplace else".
Of course, that does NOT mean everyone will be accepted outside their area, but you will have a more accurate gauge of your band's acceptance in a foreign land, as it were. When you play outside your comfort zone (local friends and fans), people will be judging your band solely on it's own merit without preconceived ideas as to it's worth, for good or bad.
Besides, it's really a rush to get out and play in front of total strangers who do not know anything about you. Talk about your honest appraisals! If you are great they will let you know and if you suck, you will know that too! Unlike when you play locally and you have "yes men" in your corner no matter how good or bad you actually are.
A really good point, and it's one of the first bits of professional advice I received when I started our band last year. I live in a city that thinks of itself as the equivalent of New York. We're way smaller than NYC, but we're the largest city in Canada. As a result, everyone in the local music scene, from venues to promoters to musicians, has attitude. The common refrain is, "Toronto eats its own." So true. They just don't care about you here until you're a "name." That "name," more often than not, comes from having caught on someplace else. I was told in no uncertain terms from those who have gone before us, that you will always be more popular anywhere else but your home town, no matter where you're from. It's true of just about every Canadian act I can think of. All these years I thought it was a phenomenon unique to Canada. Now I realize it's true for nearly everyone. Damn, we're going to need a minivan!
A really good point, and it's one of the first bits of professional advice I received when I started our band last year. I live in a city that thinks of itself as the equivalent of New York. We're way smaller than NYC, but we're the largest city in Canada. As a result, everyone in the local music scene, from venues to promoters to musicians, has attitude. The common refrain is, "Toronto eats its own." So true. They just don't care about you here until you're a "name." That "name," more often than not, comes from having caught on someplace else. I was told in no uncertain terms from those who have gone before us, that you will always be more popular anywhere else but your home town, no matter where you're from. It's true of just about every Canadian act I can think of. All these years I thought it was a phenomenon unique to Canada. Now I realize it's true for nearly everyone. Damn, we're going to need a minivan!
Another quote..."Familiarity breeds contempt". The old, "Hell, I knew those guys since high school...there just a bunch of nobody's". You either get disdain or outright jealousy from those who've known you. Or you just have those who have been friends a long time and they'll think you're great even when you are not.
Once you get away for a while, people appreciate you and your band for what you really are. Then if you succeed on a fairly high level, coming home is more like a heroes welcome with refrains of "We always knew you'd make it big!" Um, yeah...right. Sure you did. And it is universal.
It's understandable. Why would anyone who thinks of you as "that guy from gym class who used to wear geek glasses and couldn't get laid", or "He's just that guy who worked with me on the assembly line" (never knowing that was just your day job to buy gear, and you played music at night) think of you as any big deal in the music scene? If you play in clubs that have bands that are nothing more than local schmoes, you are lumped in with them and right or wrong it's hard to gain separation.
It's all about perceptions.
You hit it right on the head, an essential piece of the puzzle. While building a great local following is essential, you can overplay your area and also will not expose yourself enough, even with YouTube, iTunes and the billion blogs and sites out there.
You'd be surprised how hard it is to get some of the young talent here to go the NYC to see shows and also to play shows. Asbury Park may have a great scene, but NYC exposes you soooooooo much more.
So, thanks for the adder! Go play somewhere that isn't home, and that usually means starting 25 to 30 miles away then quickly looking for an hour or two from home.
I couldn't agree with this more. My band (link in sig) just did two nights in NY (one in Manhattan, one way out on LI) and both were fantastic. Getting to play to people who had never heard of us before was a trip - at first they stood there, arms crossed, but by the end of the set were screaming for more (in fact, in Manhattan we did 4 encores).
Overplaying in your own area is one of the worst things you can possibly do. And frankly, I'd consider your "area" as any city within about 20-25 miles (with some notable exceptions of course).
Keep your day/night jobs and keep honing your sound.It's somewhat stressful to fund your project in your current situation;unless you are willing to compromise like 80% cover and 20% original.
- Jun 3, 2009
- 3,330
- 399
- Disclosures
- Bassgearu, Music Industry Consulting and Sales. Tech 21, NBE Corp, Sonosphere.
Come see me follow some of the advice here, and probably not follow some or break some rules as well. Tonight, Nov. 11th, Veteran's Day, at 8:30pm The Saint, 601 Main Street, Asbury Park, NJ. I'll be filling in for Ziggy Shock in the bass chair.
Ziggy was also a successful original artist in the 1980's and early 1990's, and this is the first time we've played together.
Come see me mess up, and then we will throw back a few beers.
Ziggy was also a successful original artist in the 1980's and early 1990's, and this is the first time we've played together.
Come see me mess up, and then we will throw back a few beers.
- Jun 3, 2009
- 3,330
- 399
- Disclosures
- Bassgearu, Music Industry Consulting and Sales. Tech 21, NBE Corp, Sonosphere.
Thanks for the few of you who came to see the show, and for telling me I was great even though I completely forgot the bass part in the break of one of Ziggy's songs (nothing like only two practices before the show, and only one with the drummer.)
I attended the Asbury Music Awards on Sunday, to support the local original musicians and just have some fun. But I saw something that is a good lesson for original bands.
If they crowd ain't feelin' it, you don't got it.
Where many original bands miss the mark is they completely forget that the audience is the KEY to their success. While many have told us time and time again just be true to ourselves and it will work out, that's bunk. Bruce Springsteen sounds completely different then he did when he was starting out. So does just about every other very successful original band.
My point comes from two bands. The first is Scarlett Carson, a local band that has played the main stage at Bamboozle the past two years. While I didn't really get the total look of the band, they knew that they had three songs to play, and each song was more powerful and rockin' then the previous one. After the first song, which was heavy, the lead singer turned to the band and said, "we are gonna change the next one, lets do this." Immediately the chicks in the crowd got up and started gyrating. They finished with a really great, Aerosmithy song that had kittens and cougars bopping. All because he read the crowd and gave them something they liked.
The other band was No Wine for Kittens. I have heard most of their songs, and they have several that are pop ear candy, and they are upbeat and very danceable. The leader of that band opened with one of those songs, Emily, and the crowd enjoyed it. Then, as I guessed, the leader did four songs that were slow, meloncholy, and just too cerebral for anyone. After the second song people left the stage area completely. Then, after the third song, several people left. After the last song, the club was almost completely empty except for the musicians who were still to perform and who were part of the scene. This was a Sunday, but it was only 9pm. They were chased out.
The leader of No Wine for Kittens can't see past his own head and ego. He couldn't tell that no one liked the second song. And he really didn't get that people wanted to enjoy themselves and dance, be happy. He played to himself, not the audience.
Many bands have received humoungously great music reviews by the critics, only to die a quick death because they had no audience appeal. Conversely, bands with almost no talent (pick any hair band from the '80s or yes, early Kiss) have become huge. Why? Because as they stayed as true to themselves as possible, they absolutely stayed true to the what the audience liked and wanted.
You want to be successful as an original band? Pay attention to the audience. If they clap politely or don't get up and move, change what you are doing until they scream and whistle and the chicks shake the booty off.
tom
I attended the Asbury Music Awards on Sunday, to support the local original musicians and just have some fun. But I saw something that is a good lesson for original bands.
If they crowd ain't feelin' it, you don't got it.
Where many original bands miss the mark is they completely forget that the audience is the KEY to their success. While many have told us time and time again just be true to ourselves and it will work out, that's bunk. Bruce Springsteen sounds completely different then he did when he was starting out. So does just about every other very successful original band.
My point comes from two bands. The first is Scarlett Carson, a local band that has played the main stage at Bamboozle the past two years. While I didn't really get the total look of the band, they knew that they had three songs to play, and each song was more powerful and rockin' then the previous one. After the first song, which was heavy, the lead singer turned to the band and said, "we are gonna change the next one, lets do this." Immediately the chicks in the crowd got up and started gyrating. They finished with a really great, Aerosmithy song that had kittens and cougars bopping. All because he read the crowd and gave them something they liked.
The other band was No Wine for Kittens. I have heard most of their songs, and they have several that are pop ear candy, and they are upbeat and very danceable. The leader of that band opened with one of those songs, Emily, and the crowd enjoyed it. Then, as I guessed, the leader did four songs that were slow, meloncholy, and just too cerebral for anyone. After the second song people left the stage area completely. Then, after the third song, several people left. After the last song, the club was almost completely empty except for the musicians who were still to perform and who were part of the scene. This was a Sunday, but it was only 9pm. They were chased out.
The leader of No Wine for Kittens can't see past his own head and ego. He couldn't tell that no one liked the second song. And he really didn't get that people wanted to enjoy themselves and dance, be happy. He played to himself, not the audience.
Many bands have received humoungously great music reviews by the critics, only to die a quick death because they had no audience appeal. Conversely, bands with almost no talent (pick any hair band from the '80s or yes, early Kiss) have become huge. Why? Because as they stayed as true to themselves as possible, they absolutely stayed true to the what the audience liked and wanted.
You want to be successful as an original band? Pay attention to the audience. If they clap politely or don't get up and move, change what you are doing until they scream and whistle and the chicks shake the booty off.
tom
Like I always say: It's not about us. It's not even about the music. It's all about them!
You mention Springsteen: I read a newspaper interview of Bob Seger a couple of months ago. Seger said that Springsteen told him, years ago, that you've got to respect your audience. After all, they're the ones who have given up their evening to spend it with you, paid for tickets to get in, etc. & went out of their way for you. The least you can do is give them a good show for their trouble.
& "a good show" needs to be defined on their terms, not ours.
You mention Springsteen: I read a newspaper interview of Bob Seger a couple of months ago. Seger said that Springsteen told him, years ago, that you've got to respect your audience. After all, they're the ones who have given up their evening to spend it with you, paid for tickets to get in, etc. & went out of their way for you. The least you can do is give them a good show for their trouble.
& "a good show" needs to be defined on their terms, not ours.
Good music, bro ! Your tone reminds me of a more modern Geezer Butler. That's a very good thing.
But I like music because I want to make music, not to impress the crowd
I'd rather have songs noone likes but I can proudly say "that's my/our stuff and I can proudly put my name on it", than to play music the masses like but I feel ashamed or uncomfortable in. If you don't belive in yourself, noone else will.
