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How to Succeed as an Original Band

Playing when we want, what we want and how long we want is making it.
Were doing that. We don't play ANY cliche cover tunes and play 12-15 originals and still pack the floor and stil get paid and still meet women---some strange,some stranger

Don't want to come off sounding like a slap d!ck, but I'm really diggin our deal and that to me is Making It
 
Playing when we want, what we want and how long we want is making it.
Were doing that. We don't play ANY cliche cover tunes and play 12-15 originals and still pack the floor and stil get paid and still meet women---some strange,some stranger

Don't want to come off sounding like a slap d!ck, but I'm really diggin our deal and that to me is Making It

I have to agree with this. While I'd definitely love my band to make it to the big times, I can say with sincerity that I'm happy just in the small times, playing music I want to play, to people who love hearing and seeing what we do.
 
A little Christmas and Chanukkah present for ya'll:

Understanding you suck is maybe the number one most important part of making it.

I had the opportunity to watch a young band on Sunday doing a show. They told me how much they had practiced, including how they rehearsed choreography and in between song banter. I figured I'd see something pretty good, as most 17 year olds don't do that at all.

Well, if what I saw was rehearsed, these kids are in trouble. They sucked. Period. I kept my mouth shut, but made sure I didn't praise or encourage them after the show. I was polite, but really, this was maybe the worst I've ever seen.

The lead guitar player came over to my studio yesterday. He was telling me how he thought the show was good, that they made some small mistakes, but that he felt overall they were better then the other bands that played. He was pushing me for a comment, so much so that I sat him down and let him have it.

I took out my video of the show. I made him watch it. He was stunned into silence. I then gave it a critique, Tom style. First, they had a guitar problem. I told him that you check your gear immediately before the gig. The guitar had a jack problem that didn't just develop. I also told him that you bring an extra guitar if one of you owns more then one. I showed him the "choreography" and even he had to admit it was beyond stupid. The banter was the worst. And if it was rehearsed, these kids will need day jobs.

He was going to break into tears. I looked him in the eye and told him that if you want to be great, you have to know that you suck first. He and his mates were believing all the stuff their family, girlfriends and other friends told them. It was soooooooo far from reality it was a shame.

I love the line from the movie Eddie and the Cruisers, said by Sal, "Eddie, we are just a couple of guys from Jersey. I nearly broke my fingers playing that crap." Eddie replied that it was about being great and if they couldn't be great, what was the use of even playing?

Everyone sucks. My friends in the E Street Band are always looking for ways to be better, and they've been doing it for nearly 50 years. Everyone can be better. Everyone really does suck in the very beginning.

So, you want to be successful? Understand that no matter what you do, it either sucks big time or sucks in areas. Take the criticism and improve on yourself, your band. Then you will be successful.
 
Good stuff!

I'm always telling the guys in my main band that we suck, because I want to get better! In our case, we've got some talented musicians, but we could be so much better. It's frustrating.

I think my own playing sucks. I took several years off & I figure I'm playing at about 30-35% the skill level I did when I was 25. I tolerate it to a certain extent because I know I also can't run as fast as I could when I was 25, or jump as high, or recover from injuries as quickly, etc. Still, it's frustrating. People telling me I'm great is even more frustrating, because I know better!

But that's motivation to get better!
 
Hey, its been gone long enough that its ready for a revival!
eat this stuff up.
Prog rock still exists (Dream Theater counts, right?)

I suggest you try it. Find a place where intellectual stoners hang out. In my day that was engineers and the like. Guys who watched Star Trek. They eat this stuff up.
 
Understanding you suck is maybe the number one most important part of making it.

I'm always telling the guys in my main band that we suck, because I want to get better!

IMHO, Telling someone "You Suck" is no way to generate pragmatic receptivity to critique.

I appreciate the point -that you should always consider your band as having room to improve. And I appreciate the shock value of saying "we suck" in order to pop people out of any delusional thinking patterns...but this strikes me as potentially unskillful communication.

I personally prefer to temper my speech with some tact, lest the point get lost in someone's defensiveness. When it comes to critique, I strive to be thick skinned when receiving, but mindful when giving.
 
Hey, its been gone long enough that its ready for a revival!
eat this stuff up.
Prog rock still exists (Dream Theater counts, right?)

I suggest you try it. Find a place where intellectual stoners hang out. In my day that was engineers and the like. Guys who watched Star Trek. They eat this stuff up.
Okay, cool. I was inspired to play bass when I started listening to Rush, so I've been gaining interest in that kind of music.
 
Find a place where intellectual stoners hang out.
:D

OK, that was the nudge I needed to put in my two cents. Nothing to do with Prog per se, but whatever style you want to play, there is probably a scene for it. Definitely read this whole thread from the beginning if you haven't already, especially the bit about finding your scene.

It helps if you're near a big city. I'm in London, and my fledgling band's style is "Stoner" rock, often lumped together with Doom and "Stoner/Doom", if you want to throw labels around. A few years ago I had no idea this kind of music was still being played, but there is this thriving scene on my doorstep. There are gigs every week at a good handful of venues. Many of the bands are local to the London vicinity. Most from within the UK. But plenty also come from the States, Sweden and elsewhere to play for this crowd.

My bandmate moved here from Portugal to be around this scene. It was the tiny island of Madeira in fact - you could imagine the limitations of island life for an aspiring non-mainstreamer! And the London scene for this particular genre is actually small compared to that in Sweden. The American bands are among the biggest names here, but they don't seem to come from any one particular part of the country. (And no, they wouldn't be names the average Nickelback or Justin Timberlake fan would know!)

My point is that there is a scene out there for you. Prog is certainly not dead! But as Tom had mentioned earlier, the scene might not be where you happen to be.

On a final note, I find Facebook invaluable for keeping up with bands, local gigs, promotion companies, and "magazine-type" pages relevant to my genre/scene.
 
I don't really think that thinking you suck is going to make you better. It is rather depressing. I think when people thinkthat this was the best and can't find any area of improvement, then you really ought to give it up. Practicing, playing shows and whatnot, should always give you a great feeling and you should always look at where it went wrong, who tanked what part and why and work towards bettering your abilities. You know there is always some 11 year old kid that just around the corner who can play the skirts off of you and if you don't know that, then Eddie was right "What's the use of even playin?" Being successful has many different meanings to all of us. For me it is playing for 4 hours on stage with some great players, having fun and not being able to wait for the next show. My gear is top end and paid for by what my band makes. I don't spend any money on anything for the band. It is self sufficiant. Sounds successful to me..
 
I don't really think that thinking you suck is going to make you better. It is rather depressing. I think when people thinkthat this was the best and can't find any area of improvement, then you really ought to give it up. Practicing, playing shows and whatnot, should always give you a great feeling and you should always look at where it went wrong, who tanked what part and why and work towards bettering your abilities. You know there is always some 11 year old kid that just around the corner who can play the skirts off of you and if you don't know that, then Eddie was right "What's the use of even playin?" Being successful has many different meanings to all of us. For me it is playing for 4 hours on stage with some great players, having fun and not being able to wait for the next show. My gear is top end and paid for by what my band makes. I don't spend any money on anything for the band. It is self sufficiant. Sounds successful to me..

I don't buy into the PC generation, the one where we all get a trophy, whether we win first prize or last. I don't sugar coat it either.

Truth is, especially in this biz, if you can't take it hard, blunt and serious, then you probably won't get very far. I've been told many times over the years that I suck. And, after getting all defensive the first time, I took a good look. Yes, from many points of view, I suck. I don't tap, can't slap amazingly well, my technique is weirdly percussive and I don't sight read music well. So I learned my limitations and where to improve.

I know a much better bassist from years ago who was told he sucked too. He cried, pouted, let it get to him and took it like he was the worst on the planet. He hasn't picked up a bass for the most part since. Shame, but if your ego can't take the hit, do something where they never criticize you.

I've seen tons of posts on TB talking about how Gene Simmons sucks. And, like me, he does. Never hear him cryin' though, do you?

I'm all for encouraging people. I love to do it all the time. But while my words may shock, they are much truer then people want to admit, and the quicker we learn it as musicians the better.

What this current generation of "Special Olympics mentality" lacks is the understanding that you learn much more not by your wins, but your losses. Failure, if I may call it that, teaches lessons quicker and better then successes. And when no one wants to be truthful, and blunt, it hurts everyone.

I suck, I really do, but I've had a career many would have killed for. I learned every time I failed or got a bad write up how to adapt, adjust and do something different or new. And it worked!

My two cents.
 
IMHO, Telling someone "You Suck" is no way to generate pragmatic receptivity to critique.

I appreciate the point -that you should always consider your band as having room to improve. And I appreciate the shock value of saying "we suck" in order to pop people out of any delusional thinking patterns...but this strikes me as potentially unskillful communication.

I personally prefer to temper my speech with some tact, lest the point get lost in someone's defensiveness. When it comes to critique, I strive to be thick skinned when receiving, but mindful when giving.

See my reply above. Tact is for when you are talking to someone who you need something from. Like I said above, if you can't take it hard, blunt and true in this biz, you may as well not be in it.

I'm quite skilled at the queen's English and can be the consummate speaker and politician. However, especially with the new generation of kiddies out there, they have been coddled and protected so much that anything you say is either "too harsh" or "must not effect their self-esteem." You aren't born with self esteem. You gain and learn it through your successes after failure.

While I do appreciate your point and in many cases it is probably wiser, for this forum I'm not going to sugar coat it. The quicker we learn that we really do suck, and I mean understand that to its core, the quicker we will become better all around. We will be better players, as we will always seek to improve. We will be better band mates, as we will always seek to be a force to improve the band and be mindful that we are not any better then the guitard or drummer. We will become better people, because when we truly admit our flaws to ourselves we can be more compassionate, understanding and helpful to our fellow man.

The Occupy Wall Street movement is particularly driven by this prevailing attitude of "we all win, we are all great!" Hey, I think many of these super greedy, heartless bastards who want $200M instead of $199M for themselves are d-bags. However, the ones who think they shouldn't get all the money need to look at themselves and truly understand that you are where you have personally chosen to be. Did you go to college to get a degree in the anthropology of gamers? If you did, you chose that for a number of reasons, one of which is probably because you felt chemistry and physics were too hard and you didn't want to do anything hard. So when you graduated, well, you didn't think about the fact that no one hires a lot of guys with that degree, and if they do, normally don't pay much.

I lecture at a university near me a couple of times a year. While I haven't used the suck word, I have used the words stupid, lazy, entitled a lot. My lecture is in the reality of the working world and how your degree choice effects that. I am asked back every year, and I literally beat these kids into submission. I got a Christmas card the other day from a kid who had my lecture three years ago. She thanked me for my candid discussion, and then proceeded to tell me how she changed her major, much to her parent's dismay at the time.

She is now working full time as a chemist for a pharmaceutical company, making in the high 5 figures in only two years. Her previous major was art history. The cool thing is that she now realizes that she has plenty of money and ability to go to every museum when she wants, and also buy some art she loves. She ended the story in the card by telling me some of her friends who also took the lecture were up on OWS crying about how they don't have a good job.

I know, long.

Suffice it to say, for success in this biz, you have to understand you SUCK! That way, nothing can get under your skin or deter you from your goal.
 
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Like I said above, if you can't take it hard, blunt and true in this biz, you may as well not be in it.

That's certainly one school of thought, and it especially holds for many pro first-call situations. But that doesn't mean that all situations "in this biz" are the same. Nor does it logically follow that because musicians sometimes need to grow a thick hide that the best way to give advice to musicians is with an elephant gun. The advice that musicians need to recognize (and actively search out) where they're weak is good advice. OTOH, the suggestion that tact is "for talking to someone you need something from"? Or that "you suck" is not only the best way to frame advice but also somehow the most ethical? That advice sucks! ;)

First, if you're looking to keep gigs, the hang often matters--and it's funny how few people appreciate the guy who postures himself as morally superior for always telling the blunt, hard truth.

Potential advice takers: beyond the practical matter of keeping your calendar full, you've gotta ask whether the one-size-fits-all approach always works. Sure, in a lot of on-the-clock pro work, MDs and producers are brisk and direct when they want something changed. But a producer's job is to get the best performance out of the talent; so, many (even most) producers recognize that the Bobby Knight approach doesn't always get the job done.

If that's the only style you've got for working with talent at every level, it's like being a bass player who plays every tune as a blues rock shuffle. Just because you've sometimes hit a target with it doesn't mean it's a magic bullet.
 
I'm one of those guys who is very aware of how much I suck. Probably more so than I should be, honestly. Constantly thinking about how much you suck can make it easy to just give up. "What's the point in practicing, I'm never going to be any good because of how much I suck!" So don't go overboard. I often have trouble noticing that I've improved at all because I'm constantly comparing myself to people who are light years ahead of me.

All I have to do to remember I suck is watch this video: Rush - YYZ (Bass Cover) - YouTube

If I ever get good enough to play that I'll have to find a different video...
 
There's a difference between thinking you suck and noticing your weaknesses as a player and striving to improve them. I had a coach in soccer who use to pull the 'you suck' card to my entire team - let me tell ya, we never got better because of it. I changed teams to a coach who took a more soft-handed approach, would mention our strengths, and then kindly bring up our weaknesses while giving us instruction on how we could improve them. That team went from division 3 to division 1 premier competitive league in less than 3 seasons and we won state twice while I was on the team.

To me, the 'you suck' approach only plays to build the person up who's saying it and to smash the person receiving the comment to the ground. It seems like a barbaric kind of approach that does little to help. Instead, it's more important to show someone how they can better judge themselves as players so that they can find their weaknesses on their own and address them however they may need to.

You brought up listening to the recording of the show and how the kid instantly changed his mind on how their performance went. That is a GREAT way to show someone they need improvement without resorting to the 'you suck' approach. It allows someone to make up their own mind on if they need improvement or not. If they are genuinely into music they'll notice their weaknesses and will seek ways to improve.