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How to Succeed as an Original Band

while playing in an original band ... how did you keep yourself financially afloat knowing that clubs dont usually pay original acts (or do they? ... in my country, they dont), while waiting for that "paying" gig?

Bro, in Driving Wheel, we play out pretty much every weekend (over 80 shows in 2013)...it's seriously like having 2 full time jobs. Ryan (our guitarist) installs cabinets for 40 hrs a week, in addition to playing lead guitar in DW and Shaman's Harvest (national touring act). I work between 25-35 hrs a week landscaping, and in addition to DW I played in Roundheels until real recently, so I freelance a bit when my schedule allows, plus am available as a soundman on off nights.

So, we work as much as possible. we work HARD, and we're constantly tired. We're finishing our first album, and we're wanting to get a jump on the second one...but we really didn't have any time for songwriting.

So that was our biggest challenge; finding enough time to actually live life, spend time with our families/loved ones/etc. and be relaxed enough to let the songs 'flow'.

So we actually took time off for the holidays, turned down a bunch of paying gigs (a good position to be in!) and are in the middle of the biggest break we've ever had. And it's AWESOME. The worst thing we coulda done was keep just, 'taking the money' and playing our first album over and over again. people WILL get tired of the same songs. it's best to take some breaks, in order to woodshed. Plus, our two shows in January are out of town, so...when we play a hometown 'homecoming' show this spring, people will actually be anticipating it.

so, that's it. We work 40 he a week day jobs, and put the money we make from gigs back into the band. consequently, we make more from selling merch than we do at the gig, sometimes. We take opening spots on national shows for no money just for the opportunity to make new fans...

we want it more than anything, so we sacrifice pretty much everything.

That's how you survive, I guess.
 
its really easy. you need to be better than the other bands in your area. that way if someone looking for an act comes thru town, you get picked. in 1997 there was a local show with a big band. we opened for them and they thought we were the best opener they had seen on the entire tour. and they got us a record deal. it can happen many ways.

this makes sense
 
Write good songs. Then it's made.

Nice sentiment, however, on a list of 25 things to be a successful original band, this is number 25. Really..

I would not categorize Rebecca Black's "Fridays" or that new song "Chinese Food" as great or good music. However using todays standard they are huge, and Rebecca Black actually got a small tour out of that piece o' crap.

I don't think anyone who remembers speed and thrash metal from the late '80s or early '90s would ever say they were "good music", and personally Metallica and the boys to me sucked when they first arrived. But they had appeal within a certain community, and worked that until they finally got the huge following and then the "good music." (Sorry Lars if you are reading this, but you have known my opinion for decades, and we still love each other...)

American Idol proves the point. And so does the show the Monkees. Watch that documentary, it really does tell you about the industry.

Idol has super talented kids, and those kids stay by votes. The show builds appeal so that each of the top three artists each year normally get an album that goes at least gold immediately following the show. The MUSIC on Ruben Stoddard's release after winning Idol was CRAP. It SUCKED! However, it did sell out platinum. Yes, his career died soon after, but that was because the album was hip hop, and his APPEAL was like the next Luther Vandross. The music wasn't the problem, it was the fact that his typecast on the show was the cute teddy bear who sang "Smile" and then on his album Simon Fuller and Simon Cowell thought that they would make it more street (that was the industry trend at the time.) Now, as "soft hip hop" goes, the songs were alright. Pretty good. BUT NO ONE WANTED TO HEAR RUBEN SING HIP HOP, THEY WANTED HIM TO SING "WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD."

The Monkees didn't write their biggest hits, didn't perform on them (only vocals) and with all the promo for the TV show had a top hit before the show even aired. No tour, nothing. The TV show then launched all the album sales and songs. Were they great songs? You bet. But many of them had been released by other artists before, including by the people who wrote them (Neil Diamond, Boyce and Hart) and they were never hits for the writers. The show, the "characters" made them hits.

So, and not meaning to be condescending, so please do not take it that way, while having good songs does matter, it is the least important to making it as an original band.

I have a friend named Lisa Loeb (shameless name drop) who has been marginal at best with her songs. Why do I go and see her concerts? Because she has killer appeal to me, as a person, she is the kind of woman I've always gotten crushes on, and then the music.
 
I would agree that writing good music is the least important in making it as an original bad. I mean. Yes and no. You have to have functional songs. But the truth is is even if all your songs are good (by the standards of the genre you're playing), there is still hundreds of unsigned bands out there who probably have songs that are as good as yours. Whether it's you or them who will get signed depends on other factors such as image, drive and dedication, self-promotion (all of which can build you a following) and who's the best at building a list of contacts/brown nosing.

There are exceptions in music history, sure. Bands that were such geniuses at what they did that the music almost sold itself. But they are few and far between and there's a lot more bands that had good or great songs who no one ever heard of. And some bands also play into that myth of being signed out of nowhere or right away when there are factors that aren't mentioned. Bands signed after the first or second gigs, or before ANY gig even... yes it has happened, do you think these people had no contacts whatsoever though? I remember when Lily Allen came out, she released her songs on myspace and instantly became a hit!!!........or so the story goes. It failed to mention that oh yeah, she is also the daughter of a famous british comedian and pretty much had many contacts in the entertainment business. Another example off the top of my head getting signed almost right away, Placebo. Yes. Except the band leader's dad was a high ranking diplomat and the members of the band had met while attending posh schools. They, in short, knew influential people from the get go and got them to come to their shows (they were signed at the second one, allegedly). Or just recently, CHVRCHES, ranked number 5 in sounds of 2013 by the BBC (i'm not gonna lie, i think it's great synthpop). Label interest before they had even played a show. They formed and a year and a half later had a record out on Virgin and were being talked about everywhere in the british music press. Yes they went online and promoted themselves true. But also, two members had already been in signed bands (obscure ones but signed nonetheless) and in the business for many many years. They got their songs heard by the right people. Simple as that. Oh yeah and...they also have a really attractive singer...

So have good songs, sure, but don't think it's gonna be nearly enough. Not even close.
 
I just want to say too, i read the early pages and some people advised that for an hour of original music, a band should have an hour of covers...

hmm...i'm gonna go ahead and assume this is true in their region or genre. I'm in a city of 4 million+ people. There's not much market for cover bands. But i can tell you the cover vs original bands market is completely separate. No one goes to see a band playing originals expecting them to play covers too (i'm not saying they don't maybe throw in one once in a while but they generally don't) and bands playing originals generally don't do shows with cover bands. Original bands play 99% originals and that's the way it goes. People know that, expect that.

Then again, i think most cities generally have a cultural environment that tends to encourage original art. After all, cities is where people who really want to make it usually head to.
 
Welcome back, TR!

I have a saying that I try to impress on those around me: It's not about us. It's not even about the music. It's all about them!

As long as I can remember, there have been singers, musicians, & bands that it was fashionable to say "suck", despite selling millions of albums, selling out arenas, etc. I think there's at least some amount of jealousy involved, at least when it's musicians who are doing the dissing. It's like, "They don't deserve to be successful, but I do, & if somebody would drop the same boatload of cash onto me that was dumped onto them..."

People with that attitude seem to think that all it takes is to just show up & "be good". Reality is that those folks who "made it" despite sucking so bad actually worked a heck of a lot harder than most people can even comprehend.
 
Nice sentiment, however, on a list of 25 things to be a successful original band, this is number 25. Really..

I would not categorize Rebecca Black's "Fridays" or that new song "Chinese Food" as great or good music. However using todays standard they are huge, and Rebecca Black actually got a small tour out of that piece o' crap.

I don't think anyone who remembers speed and thrash metal from the late '80s or early '90s would ever say they were "good music", and personally Metallica and the boys to me sucked when they first arrived. But they had appeal within a certain community, and worked that until they finally got the huge following and then the "good music." (Sorry Lars if you are reading this, but you have known my opinion for decades, and we still love each other...)

American Idol proves the point. And so does the show the Monkees. Watch that documentary, it really does tell you about the industry.

Idol has super talented kids, and those kids stay by votes. The show builds appeal so that each of the top three artists each year normally get an album that goes at least gold immediately following the show. The MUSIC on Ruben Stoddard's release after winning Idol was CRAP. It SUCKED! However, it did sell out platinum. Yes, his career died soon after, but that was because the album was hip hop, and his APPEAL was like the next Luther Vandross. The music wasn't the problem, it was the fact that his typecast on the show was the cute teddy bear who sang "Smile" and then on his album Simon Fuller and Simon Cowell thought that they would make it more street (that was the industry trend at the time.) Now, as "soft hip hop" goes, the songs were alright. Pretty good. BUT NO ONE WANTED TO HEAR RUBEN SING HIP HOP, THEY WANTED HIM TO SING "WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD."

The Monkees didn't write their biggest hits, didn't perform on them (only vocals) and with all the promo for the TV show had a top hit before the show even aired. No tour, nothing. The TV show then launched all the album sales and songs. Were they great songs? You bet. But many of them had been released by other artists before, including by the people who wrote them (Neil Diamond, Boyce and Hart) and they were never hits for the writers. The show, the "characters" made them hits.

So, and not meaning to be condescending, so please do not take it that way, while having good songs does matter, it is the least important to making it as an original band.

I have a friend named Lisa Loeb (shameless name drop) who has been marginal at best with her songs. Why do I go and see her concerts? Because she has killer appeal to me, as a person, she is the kind of woman I've always gotten crushes on, and then the music.

Lisa is very cute in the unassuming 'sexy librarian way'. And she's charming.

I would go see her based on that alone.
 
A friend just forwarded this from critic Bob Lefsetz' newsletter. I don't agree with everything he says but there's a lot of food for thought.

*********************
Begin forwarded message:
From: Bob Lefsetz <[email protected]>
Subject: How To Make It
Date: 2 December, 2013 5:54:02 PM PST

PRACTICE

Your ability to play exceeds social networking.

Your chops are more important than your social skills. Frequently the best musicians are near mute, they speak through their music, which brings adoring fans to them.

First learn how to play. Everything else comes next.

WRITE

You can make it with other people's songs, but it's hard to sustain. Consider writing another club in your bag, not only does it give you more options it also makes you more attractive to labels and other investors.

RECORD

A great song translates with just you and your instrument on YouTube. But if it's someone else's song, you're not going to go far. We all pass around YouTube covers, but none of the acts ever stick, because imitation is the sincerest form of flattery but it's not the way into our hearts.

RECORD 2

Yes, if you hire name people and record in a top-notch studio your track will sound better, but ultimately it's about the song. Slick means nothing if the song sucks.

DISTRIBUTE

Put your music everywhere. Starting on SoundCloud. It's the default home of the wannabe. If you get any traction thereafter, get it on iTunes and Spotify, et al.

YOUTUBE

Comes after SoundCloud. A lyric video is good enough assuming people want to see it.

But if someone comes to your clip and the count is low it's going to work against you, especially if you told people to go there.

HYPE

You start with your friends. And try not to burn out your friendships. Seed them with material. Listen to their feedback. Don't lean on them to spread the word, if they like your material they will. If you give it to them and two weeks go by and you're not hearing from other people, especially those you barely know or don't know at all, your track wasn't good enough. Maybe good enough for you, but not good enough to make it.

MAILING LISTS

Retain all the contact info of anybody who contacts you about your music. You want to know who your fans are.

MAILING LISTS 2

Put yourself in the shoes of your fans, look at it from their perspective, not yours. You may be frustrated you're not more successful, but that's not their problem. Only contact people when you think they'll be thrilled to hear from you, when they're interested in what you've got.

MAILING LISTS 3

If you're getting positive feedback, feed information on a regular basis. If you're seeding people and getting nothing back, the problem is you. Back to the drawing board. Yes, you may want to tell everybody they don't get it and you're misunderstood, that's your prerogative, but that won't help you make it.

TWITTER

Almost meaningless unless you're already a star. Then it's purely the cherry on top. And sundaes taste quite fine without the cherry. The problem with Twitter is most tweets go unseen. But if you notice retweets and feedback feeding the system is not a bad idea, as long as it doesn't take your focus away from your music.

FACEBOOK

A home for looky-loos before you can afford your own URL/website. But don't expect any virality on Facebook.

PLAYING LIVE

Comes last. It's after you've learned how to play, practiced, written and recorded. If you put it first, you're probably gonna be in trouble. Especially if you don't know how to play and make mistakes. Yes, road chops are the best. But that's assuming you've got somewhere to play. That's the problem today, live music is not everywhere. Venues don't want to pay and certainly don't want to alienate their patrons. They'd rather spin records. So don't beg anybody to play at their venue unless you're going to make them money. That's the cardinal rule. It's your responsibility to bring people in, not theirs. Certainly if you're completely unknown.

Having said all that, it's not a bad idea to start out as a cover band. But use originals sparingly. And if people stop dancing and/or leave the room, pull them.

If you can get places to play, more power to you. But don't put the cart before the horse.

BLOWING UP

It's gonna happen slower than your wildest dreams. It's gonna be long after your buddies have graduated from college and have careers and are starting families. If you're not willing to risk it all and fail, music is not the business for you. And if you do fail, don't complain, either get out or go back to the drawing board and work harder.

BLOWING UP 2

Your one big break is never the one you think it is, and is oftentimes a series of mini-breaks.

TV CONTESTS

Are about the shows, not the talent, about advertising, not music. At first, they were such a hit surprise this wasn't completely true, but Kelly Clarkson made it a decade ago. Contests are short cuts that usually lead nowhere. They tar your resume.

MERCH

Assuming people come to see you, and like you, they'll want to buy something from you, to evidence both their support and their identity. T-shirts are great, but make sure they're well-designed and made with good materials, otherwise people will buy once, if that, and never again. As for CDs...this is what they're made for, live gigs. They're souvenirs. The music is available easily online. But personalized, signed product is not.

A MANAGER

No act makes it without one. Don't sign a contract if you can get away with it. If you do, give up no more than twenty percent, hopefully fifteen. And hire a MUSIC BUSINESS LAWYER to negotiate the deal, not your dad's attorney buddy. Whatever you spend will be a pittance compared to how screwed you will be if you actually make it and have signed a bad deal. The bottom line is when you start no one good wants to manage you, and chances are you're going to leave your initial garage manager for someone more experienced. It's gonna cost you, remember that.

AN AGENT

More important than a label these days. Agents work on commission, usually ten percent. And they don't like to work for free. So if you're not making any money, an agent isn't gonna wanna represent you. I know it's a conundrum. You need an agent to get work, but you can't get an agent unless you've got work. Figure it out. Oftentimes it's the drummer who both manages the band and gets gigs before professionals get involved. As to why it's the drummer, we're still trying to figure that out.

A LABEL

You might feel good you're signed, but that don't mean diddly-squat if it's an indie who neither distributes nor promotes you. Give up rights commensurate with how much you're being paid. Up front. Upon delivery. Guarantees of marketing and promotion are worthless, even if they're in the contract. If you're not getting any money, you want it to be a one or two album deal, with a hefty royalty rate and a return of rights upon termination of the deal or shortly thereafter.

A MAJOR LABEL

You give to get. Your deal will be lousy unless you don't need them. If you're pulling in thousands of people a night and tracks are flying out of the iTunes Store the major label will cut you a good deal, otherwise they won't. And just because you have the deal don't expect the label to break you. The hard work is just beginning. Give them tools, i.e. music. And play nice. Otherwise the label will blackball you, they don't need troublemakers, unless they're guaranteed revenue makers. And major labels only want acts they can easily market and profit from, i.e. radio acts. Remember that. If you're not one of these, a major label deal is worthless, furthermore you won't get one.

TRACTION

Comes slower than you expect once you've got a deal. It's all work with very little reward for a very long time. In other words, if you're not willing to enter the Ironman competition, don't be a musician. Just when you've scaled one hill, there's a mountain range looming in the distance.

HITS

You need more than one to sustain a career.

MONEY

Comes long after you think it should. Not only does the label take most of it, what you deserve isn't rendered for eons, that's the nature of royalties.

GETTING SCREWED

It goes with the territory. You're never going to receive what you've earned. You just hire the best people and try to get the most you can.

SUCCESS

Won't be as sweet as you think it'll be. But don't freak out in the middle of it. Because we need neither you nor your act. Do your best to be humble and sustain. Otherwise, you'll be replaced.

EXCEPTIONS TO THE ABOVE

Exist. But they're rare. Do you want to bank on being the exception?
 
We're a blues-rock based band. We have 27 originals that get worked into our playlist every gig - the rest are covers, but not necessarily played like the original versions, since we've developed our own sound and arrange the covers to suit our style. So far this has worked very well for us, we have a loyal local following and are steadily expanding it, and clubs are keen to book us. Hoping to release our first cd (mainly originals, with maybe one or two covers) soon.
 
We're a blues-rock based band. We have 27 originals that get worked into our playlist every gig - the rest are covers, but not necessarily played like the original versions, since we've developed our own sound and arrange the covers to suit our style. So far this has worked very well for us, we have a loyal local following and are steadily expanding it, and clubs are keen to book us. Hoping to release our first cd (mainly originals, with maybe one or two covers) soon.

Sounds great, and keep working the dream.

Be careful though, it is beyond rare when a cover band can move to completely originals, and also rare for any CD they put out to have much more appeal than to the regular fans. Two bands on the Jersey Shore who thoughtt their cover success would equal original success...The Outcry and The Benjamins. the Outcry is long gone, the Benjamins still just a cover band.

People really don't care about your music, as much as they need to bond with you.

Band with talent that doesn't really reach the people, (She and HIm - Zoey Deschanel) Band with no talent that reaches the people...Mumford and Sons.

In this case, its all about the folksy hipster thing.
 
Lisa is very cute in the unassuming 'sexy librarian way'. And she's charming.

I would go see her based on that alone.


Never a good enough reason to give money to an artist in my opinion.


Though it illustrates that image matters.



Band with talent that doesn't really reach the people, (She and HIm - Zoey Deschanel) Band with no talent that reaches the people...Mumford and Sons.

In this case, its all about the folksy hipster thing.

I'm with you about Mumford and sons.....but Zoey Deschanel has talent? She can't sing for one....at least not in a way i care to listen to.

Ok ok...this isn't a thread to debate musical tastes, lets not get into it i guess....But I just...strongly disagree.
 
A friend just forwarded this from critic Bob Lefsetz' newsletter. I don't agree with everything he says but there's a lot of food for thought.

*********************
Begin forwarded message:
From: Bob Lefsetz <[email protected]>
Subject: How To Make It
Date: 2 December, 2013 5:54:02 PM PST

DISTRIBUTE

Put your music everywhere. Starting on SoundCloud. It's the default home of the wannabe. If you get any traction thereafter, get it on iTunes and Spotify, et al.

YOUTUBE

Comes after SoundCloud. A lyric video is good enough assuming people want to see it.

But if someone comes to your clip and the count is low it's going to work against you, especially if you told people to go there.

HYPE

You start with your friends. And try not to burn out your friendships. Seed them with material. Listen to their feedback. Don't lean on them to spread the word, if they like your material they will. If you give it to them and two weeks go by and you're not hearing from other people, especially those you barely know or don't know at all, your track wasn't good enough. Maybe good enough for you, but not good enough to make it.

Two things:

One: It turns out the average public isn't very aware of soundcloud at all. My gf is a music lover, up until two months ago when i decided to put some of our rough mix demoes out there (just to test out the site and send to my brother) she didnt know what it was. Truthfully? Neither did I until about 6 months ago. Musicians are aware of soundcloud, the average person doesn't use it sp much. No way near the way they use youtube or facebook. I don't see what the problem in putting your songs up on as many places as possible anyway. Though you should probably focus your energies on one specific site. I mean if you link people to your music you should give them just one link. Not several. You don't want to spread the hits. It's just the more places you are, the more chance people might stumble upon you. Though, i get the point about views on youtube... But I listen to songs or records on youtube ALL the time. In fact it's become my number 1 way of listening to records i don't own.

Second thing, just because your friends or acquaintances didn't say anything doesn't necessarily mean your song is not good enough. In fact their opinion might mean jack****. They might just not dig the kind of music you make. Non musicians tend to not be very open minded about music (not that musicians necessarily are either). I know most of my friends, family and acquaintances don't share my musical tastes and don't really get what i'm doing (not in the sense that it's challenging, just that it's not the kinda stuff they'd listen to). I would say your friends and family are the LAST people you should trust to tell you whether you're good enough or not.
 
Never a good enough reason to give money to an artist in my opinion.


Though it illustrates that image matters.





I'm with you about Mumford and sons.....but Zoey Deschanel has talent? She can't sing for one....at least not in a way i care to listen to.

Ok ok...this isn't a thread to debate musical tastes, lets not get into it i guess....But I just...strongly disagree.

Yes, and you actually make my point. Zoey has an incredibly strong voice and can sing exceptionally well, How and what she chooses to sing, however, appeals to .001% of the population. No connection. Mumford and sons have appeal, for sure.

Either way, Like I said, music and songs is the last, except I guess song choice, as that is say 20 on the list of 25...
 
Yes, and you actually make my point. Zoey has an incredibly strong voice and can sing exceptionally well, How and what she chooses to sing, however, appeals to .001% of the population. No connection. Mumford and sons have appeal, for sure.

Either way, Like I said, music and songs is the last, except I guess song choice, as that is say 20 on the list of 25...

Zoey's fun to hang out with, good people too.

But yeah, her music, while I'm kinda fascinated by it, doesn't get played much in the blues mobile. The other guys don't, uh, they don't appreciate her individuality, lol. And I understand; it's not something I listen too all that often, myself. but I can appreciate it. Same with Sufjan Stevens or Devandra Barnhart - I think it's great music...but it's not what I put on when I have friends over and we're partying, for sure.
 
Zoey's fun to hang out with, good people too.

But yeah, her music, while I'm kinda fascinated by it, doesn't get played much in the blues mobile. The other guys don't, uh, they don't appreciate her individuality, lol. And I understand; it's not something I listen too all that often, myself. but I can appreciate it. Same with Sufjan Stevens or Devandra Barnhart - I think it's great music...but it's not what I put on when I have friends over and we're partying, for sure.

Nice to see someone here actually knows her. I wish you could introduce me to her so we can fix her music career.
 
TRichardsbass -

This is a great thread. Its been a while since I've tuned in. I thought I'd ramble a couple thoughts from a independent original artist about perseverance. As most band are, we were very naïve when we started. We thought once people heard our tunes our home town would be ours. 4 years and an album later we are still far from successful. Truth is, independent bands do not have the luxury of a advertising and marketing budget. Its hard to let people know about you. We've had to learn that the journey is slow process and to focus on the short term goals instead of the finish line. I don't have answers but I DO know being a original band isn't for the faint of heart. We feel sorry for ourselves as much as we pat ourselves on the back. None the less, our formula for perseverance is remain positive, love each other, and continue learning more and more musically.

As always, I'd love for any of you to check our tunes and share any and all thoughts. Here is the link: http://psychobillycadillac.bandcamp.com/. Spotify users you can find us there too. We're everywhere google, iTunes, etc.

Stay positive out there.
 
Nice to see someone here actually knows her. I wish you could introduce me to her so we can fix her music career.

Yeah, I don't think she's interested, lol. She's following the beat of her own drummer. Literally.

Besides, she thinks my band 'sounds a bit like Bad Company'. Which is really her way of saying, you know...that we sound 'generic' or 'traditional' or whatever. She was like, 'I hope you don't get mad...'

I laughed, I go 'Zooey...we LOVE Bad Company'.

So it was kind of funny.

But I'm sure she doesn't want any input from me. Like, she's a true ARTIST, following her muse and doing what she wants.

As opposed to me, who basically works within well-defined parameters. I'm like, a hard-hat-wearing 9-5 construction worker...and she's an actual artist.

So maybe that's why I'm fascinated by her songs. She's definitely unencumbered and obviously not trying to write 'hits'. Which is refreshing.
 
Yeah, I don't think she's interested, lol. She's following the beat of her own drummer. Literally.

Besides, she thinks my band 'sounds a bit like Bad Company'. Which is really her way of saying, you know...that we sound 'generic' or 'traditional' or whatever. She was like, 'I hope you don't get mad...'

I laughed, I go 'Zooey...we LOVE Bad Company'.

So it was kind of funny.

But I'm sure she doesn't want any input from me. Like, she's a true ARTIST, following her muse and doing what she wants.

As opposed to me, who basically works within well-defined parameters. I'm like, a hard-hat-wearing 9-5 construction worker...and she's an actual artist.

So maybe that's why I'm fascinated by her songs. She's definitely unencumbered and obviously not trying to write 'hits'. Which is refreshing.

If she didn't have the acting career she'd probably be listening to you now....

One day, when visual media bores her, you and I can sit her down and teach her the ropes of music. No more of those bad Beatles covers or oddly timed singing slow stuff. However, tell her I said hello and that if she actually wants a full band, I'll be happy to oblige....