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How to Succeed as an Original Band

#521
I never tell anybody, "You suck." But I tell my bands all the time, "We suck." The difference between "you" & "we" is that "we" includes me! If somebody asks me to critique them I'll usually try to find something positive that can be built on & suggest things to improve.

To me, "suck" represents the gap between where we are & where we could be. It's the difference between potential and the current state of achievement. That said, I hope I never reach 100% of my potential, because what would I do then? I enjoy & expect constant improvement, & when it doesn't happen that really sucks!
 
#522
Merry Christmas morning!

I think some of you are getting it, big time!

I'm aiming more for the mental "you suck", not screaming it at yourself or everyone in the band. However, SUCK I think is appropriate.

I don't want to discourage anyone, but at the same time I think a lot of people have really bought into the self esteem curriculum toooooo much. Look, I'm not a music teacher, nor do I give instrument lessons. I do a LOT of band consulting. And what I find all the time is this "we were good" or "you guys were great" and bands buying into it super heavily. Like the band I was talking about, Yesterday's Cliche. I was talking to one of the members yesterday on the eve, and he kept talking about how great everyone told them they were at the last show. He was even telling me how someone in his family told him he didn't sound good and he was complaining about how his "family" doesn't know anything. Too much everyone gets a trophy lifestyle.

The kids have asked me to come to a rehearsal and critique their last performance. The word suck and the term suck-ubus will be in heavy rotation. What makes me sad is that these kids have talent, but will never realize it because they have come to believe the hype.

But again, I think JohnMCA is on to what I'm saying...
 
#523
Happy New Year everyone!

Just got back from working with a band competing in 'The Break' Contest for a spot in Bamboozle. Again, they didn't understand what a band "look" was. They thought their non look was a look.

So I showed them this.

The Sex Pistols - Pretty Vacant - Live On The Late Late Show - YouTube

Lets face it, if the anti-establishment Sex Pistols have a look, then everyone must have one!

What I noted hee was the jackets and sunglasses on Glen and Steve, and of course Johnny's weird dressing.

Have a look! Its important to being a successful original band!
 
#524
What I always tell people is that music is multi-dimensional. There's a lot more to music than just "music". Dimensions include the songs themselves, the arrangements, the talent & technical abilities of the players, the production of recordings, the sound system & its operation, lighting, movement on stage, gestures, expressions, inflections - and most definitely, "the look" - among others. Each of these dimensions can be broken down further into still more dimensions.

Those who ignore any of the dimensions run the very strong risk of not reaching their potential. In spite of this, many musicians ignore several important dimensions on purpose ("it's all about the music", etc.). "The look" is one that I see deliberately ignored all the time. As Tom points out, even a "non-look" is a look. It also just so happens to be a look that a heck of people are all using at once, everywhere! It's hard to stand out & get noticed when you look just like everybody else.

I have a look that I've developed over the years. It isn't anything outrageous, or that I couldn't wear out & about in a non-gig setting almost any time. Nobody mistakes me for anything other than a member of the band, & I get a lot of compliments - & I'm not even very good looking. I had a band leader tell me, years ago, that the way I was dressed for his audition blew his socks off when I walked in the door & I got the job right there, on the spot before I'd even played a note.

Watch late night TV (Leno, Letterman, Conan, etc.) sometime, & look at how the bands are dressed. Then take a look at the shots of the audience. There's no doubt who's in the band & who isn't. Looking like a musician often makes people believe I am one!
 
#527
JohnMCA72 said:
What I always tell people is that music is multi-dimensional. There's a lot more to music than just "music". Dimensions include the songs themselves, the arrangements, the talent & technical abilities of the players, the production of recordings, the sound system & its operation, lighting, movement on stage, gestures, expressions, inflections - and most definitely, "the look" - among others. Each of these dimensions can be broken down further into still more dimensions.

Those who ignore any of the dimensions run the very strong risk of not reaching their potential. In spite of this, many musicians ignore several important dimensions on purpose ("it's all about the music", etc.). "The look" is one that I see deliberately ignored all the time. As Tom points out, even a "non-look" is a look. It also just so happens to be a look that a heck of people are all using at once, everywhere! It's hard to stand out & get noticed when you look just like everybody else.

I have a look that I've developed over the years. It isn't anything outrageous, or that I couldn't wear out & about in a non-gig setting almost any time. Nobody mistakes me for anything other than a member of the band, & I get a lot of compliments - & I'm not even very good looking. I had a band leader tell me, years ago, that the way I was dressed for his audition blew his socks off when I walked in the door & I got the job right there, on the spot before I'd even played a note.

Watch late night TV (Leno, Letterman, Conan, etc.) sometime, & look at how the bands are dressed. Then take a look at the shots of the audience. There's no doubt who's in the band & who isn't. Looking like a musician often makes people believe I am one!
Click to expand...

I am a 42 year old struggling a little on an image these days as the type of clothes that are in style for young bands seems very off for me. The wrinkly, cheap sport coats and british influenced garb doesn't look very good on me, imo. I promise not to copy what you wear but would you show a pic of how you dress ?
 
#528
Session1969 said:
I am a 42 year old struggling a little on an image these days as the type of clothes that are in style for young bands seems very off for me. The wrinkly, cheap sport coats and british influenced garb doesn't look very good on me, imo. I promise not to copy what you wear but would you show a pic of how you dress ?
Click to expand...

I'll see if I can find a photo, but in the meantime I can give a quick description:

Shoes: Boots or sneakers, depending on the season. White sneakers tend to pop out; black tends to fade into the background.

Pants: Camouflage paratrooper pants; I've got them in several colors, in patterns with large areas of color so they won't blend too much when seen from a distance (the modern "digital" pattern doesn't work well; in this application it's really "anti-camouflage", intended to stand out rather than blend in).

Shirt: Anything goes, except a match to the pants! Solid color (including white) T-shirt, tie-dyed T-shirt, or Hawaiian print shirt in a color that clashes with the pants. If I'm playing a ski resort, etc. I'll wear one of their shirts sometimes, if I can get one.

Jacket: Black or white sport coat.

Hat: None (I'm not really a "hat guy", plus I don't like having my face in shadow).

Other accessories: Generally nothing else, like shades, scarf, tie, etc. unless it's a tie-in to the event or season (like Mardi Gras beads, etc.).

In a way, it's almost clownish with nothing really "matching" in any traditional sense. But it stands out, gets people interested & talking. At the same time, I'm not really wearing what's "in" for 20-somethings, which tends to look pathetic when older guys do it (I'm older than you are). Plus it's just plain fun! Looking fun & acting fun tends to rub off on other people, & when the people around me have fun I tend to get asked back more often.

I don't mind if somebody wants to use some, or any of it. It's nothing secret, & I'd probably be flattered if somebody wanted to copy my look! It's evolved over a long period of time, & there's really nothing I'd wear onstage that I wouldn't wear around town shopping, etc. (just not in the same combinations). I take my look seriously in the sense that it's planned & part of a strategy to stand out, not just what I happened to throw on today, but I don't take myself seriously in the sense that there's any great importance to myself or any of it. It's all part of the show, there to entertain & amuse people.
 
#529
Personally, I don't think the goofy pants, hawaiian shirt, and clashing jacket do what you think it does. There's something to be sad for understanding fashion in clothing and applying it to your band. After all, you're applying your knowledge of music fashion, aren't you?

I'm not saying it doesn't work for you; I don't know that. That kind of outfit immediately makes me think weekend warrior cover band, though.
 
#530
I think his point is that he gets people to come talk to him. I think it's sort of genius as long as he can pull it off being a clever/amusing person to talk to. I couldn't pull off something that crazy though, I think I'd be a tad more discreet in my efforts to draw people personally.
 
#531
Mattosaur said:
Personally, I don't think the goofy pants, hawaiian shirt, and clashing jacket do what you think it does. There's something to be sad for understanding fashion in clothing and applying it to your band. After all, you're applying your knowledge of music fashion, aren't you?

I'm not saying it doesn't work for you; I don't know that. That kind of outfit immediately makes me think weekend warrior cover band, though.
Click to expand...

I don't know what you think I think. I don't know much about fashion, but I believe it's more about fitting in than standing out for the most part.

I don't really care much what my fellow musicians think of me. There aren't enough of them to make any decent money, even if they (we) weren't mostly broke most of the time. I'm not going to blow anybody away with my musical chops, or my style sense. People who don't know any better (i.e. non-musicians) sometimes mistake me for a musician, though. I think most non-musicians expect musicians to be a little "different" & I try to oblige them. What I am is an entertainer.

(Sorry if this is drifting off-topic. There was a thread about "Your Look Onstage", & I would have referred over there, but it seems to have fallen off the board.)
 
#532
I'm 26 and have been playing bass since I was 16. I've been in and out of numerous jam and metal bands for the past decade and only a couple of years ago did I end up in a band who's had any measure of success. (Heavy Breath album cover NSFW) We've developed a sizeable following in CT, have done a couple of small tours and played a good amount of larger out-of-state gigs. We're signed to a small label, Get Young Records, who released our LP last summer on vinyl and has been able to get it up on some larger online retailers and out to indie record stores on the East Coast.

And by reading this thread, I've come to realize how different the DIY/hardcore and "big" (for lack of a better word?) rock worlds are. Since joining Heavy Breath two years ago I've played with countless bands in and out of the punk world, some bigger (Ceremony, 108, Title Fight) and some practically unknown. All different, all measuring success in different terms. But the thing I've noticed with DIY culture is the entirely different sets of rules one gets to play with. Cover bands are generally looked down upon unless it's for a special occasion. If you're going on a first tour, you're booking it yourself and probably from a list of contacts obtained by booking out-of-state touring bands or through friends and friends of friends. You won't always find a place to sleep and sometimes dates will fall through, but what really made the difference were the good shows we got to play; we constantly made enough money on tour to pay for gas and tolls and were lucky enough to walk away with a little in the band fund for recording and new merch.

One thing that definitely helped us out early on was filming our gigs regularly; we've been able to return to live footage to see what works and what doesn't work for our live show, to tighten up those between-song breaks and keep the awkward banter to a minimum. Even as a fairly introverted band who spends most of the set facing away from the crowd and wearing street close; these elements ("no image") actually constitute our image.

There's a lot of things I'm probably missing in this post. I am mostly just grateful to be able to play in a band on my own terms, to get to play with four to five of my best friends who let me play whatever I want and to get a positive reaction from something we do for ourselves is one of the biggest joys in life.
 
#533
Long time since I added a nugget. Here it is:

Its all about your routine.

Olympic athletes, great businessmen. Presidents, Kings and conquerors. All have a routine. Rarely do they vary from it.

Routine gives you focus and certainty. It gives you the much needed illusion of control. Every great musician I know spent the bulk of their time doing nothing but writing songs and making music. They often didn't have regular jobs, and often sponged off those of us who had some dough. But they did the same thing every day. Get up, eat. Practice guitar or bass for a while. Write for a while. Work on songs for a while. Contact clubs and media. Rehearse alone or with band. Eat dinner. Go see other bands and learn. Network. Go back to Tom's couch, sleep. Get up next day and do it again.

The closest to a routine you can get, the more likely, in any walk of life or project, you will succeed wildly.

So, do you have a regular, daily, weekly, monthly routine?
 
#534
TRichardsbass said:
I said that IMO using drugs do not lead you in the right direction to be successful. If Bardo could actually have pointed to how drugs make you successful, as opposed to pointing out that some successful musicians had used drugs (and not necessarily before they became successful) and given the typical dissertation on the types of cannabis then and now, and how sugar apparently is the root of all evil, then I would have just muddled on.

But as OPBassman said, there are musicians reading this, younger ones in particular, who are looking for ways to increase their chances for success. If anyone can actually show me how they got signed by a label, got hired for a regional or national tour, or got recognized as a band due directly to drug use, then let them prove it here. Otherwise, I'm ending the discussion with my point that drugs don't ever lead to success, in any legal endeavor.

As for the songwriting, I'm finishing up my post now in my
notepad and will post before three o'clock.
Click to expand...

Kottonmouth Kings, Sublime, Snoop, list goes on brotha :)
 
#535
TRichardsbass said:
Long time since I added a nugget. Here it is:

Its all about your routine.

Olympic athletes, great businessmen. Presidents, Kings and conquerors. All have a routine. Rarely do they vary from it.

Routine gives you focus and certainty. It gives you the much needed illusion of control. Every great musician I know spent the bulk of their time doing nothing but writing songs and making music. They often didn't have regular jobs, and often sponged off those of us who had some dough. But they did the same thing every day. Get up, eat. Practice guitar or bass for a while. Write for a while. Work on songs for a while. Contact clubs and media. Rehearse alone or with band. Eat dinner. Go see other bands and learn. Network. Go back to Tom's couch, sleep. Get up next day and do it again.

The closest to a routine you can get, the more likely, in any walk of life or project, you will succeed wildly.

So, do you have a regular, daily, weekly, monthly routine?
Click to expand...

Tom, have you read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell? He talks about mastery and the generally accepted understanding that it takes 10,000 hours to get there. He goes on to provide a lot of interesting examples, from Bill Gates to The Beatles. A really entertaining and thought provoking read. I think you'd dig it!

And you're so right about the importance of routine. Couldn't agree more - what a shame that most of us aren't in a position to crash on people's couches and make music full time! :D But it's good to build in some kind of structure for music/composition into your day or week, depending on your schedule. Regular sessions help train the mind and body to focus.

And of course, I've just said all that while goofing off here on TB...

:hiding:
 
#536
Bully for you. The guy is just trying to offer his experience.

dj150888 said:
Aye, I think the ten year qualifier is a wee bit silly. My own "original" band has only been playing for five years, yet we've gone through european tours, a small record label, a much bigger record label, dealing with booking agents, dealing with sponsorships/endorsements and negotiating contracts. I know many bands who have been playing original material for a LOT longer than ten years who haven't got a fraction of the experience with this that we've built up in five years.
Click to expand...
 
#538
aztomr said:
None of these bands made it big because they were high, they made it big and also did drugs. Are you suggesting Sublime needs drugs to play music? As a regular pot smoker, I can't think of a single thing you can do better while high. Drugs are for those in the audience, not for those making music.
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But many musician create music on drugs because well, they can't have all those crazy idea if they aren't high ... I met some people like that ...

Also I think being a star like RHCP, they can have easily more drugs ... or all the drugs they want. But I think they also made a lot of drugs before they were successful
 
#539
TRichardsbass said:
Long time since I added a nugget. Here it is:

Its all about your routine.

Olympic athletes, great businessmen. Presidents, Kings and conquerors. All have a routine. Rarely do they vary from it.

Routine gives you focus and certainty. It gives you the much needed illusion of control. Every great musician I know spent the bulk of their time doing nothing but writing songs and making music. They often didn't have regular jobs, and often sponged off those of us who had some dough. But they did the same thing every day. Get up, eat. Practice guitar or bass for a while. Write for a while. Work on songs for a while. Contact clubs and media. Rehearse alone or with band. Eat dinner. Go see other bands and learn. Network. Go back to Tom's couch, sleep. Get up next day and do it again.

The closest to a routine you can get, the more likely, in any walk of life or project, you will succeed wildly.

So, do you have a regular, daily, weekly, monthly routine?
Click to expand...

Great post. If you want something bad enough, you have to eat, sleep, and breathe it. You must be consumed by it.
 
#540
aztomr said:
None of these bands made it big because they were high, they made it big and also did drugs. Are you suggesting Sublime needs drugs to play music? As a regular pot smoker, I can't think of a single thing you can do better while high. Drugs are for those in the audience, not for those making music.
Click to expand...

No sir I would never make that assumption. That being said, the stoner culture is what made them. As a fellow stoner I also indulge but I don't advocate performing high. However, some of my best licks have been cannabis inspired. I have a HORRENDOUS case of ADD and smoking really helps me focus(kinda backwards huh?). It's all about the time and the place.

Love and Peace
:)
 

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