How-to Wire?: Convert 4x10 to [2x10] + [stereo 2x10]

[TwentyHz]

I'm seeking advice about re-wiring a speaker cabinet as described here. I can solder. I want to rewire my Hartke VX410 to function as a single cabinet that functionally 'contains' (1) a 2x10 and (2) either a stereo 2x10, or two 1x10s. (kinda like my ol' PV 1820- ish)

I am seeking your informed/experienced instructions about the wiring diagram, and what to do about the little circuit board that I presume may be inside (I know I have one in a VX115).

I have ingested a lot of TB discourse about bass cab design, and I fully accept and believe that this franken-cab idea is going to make the overall performance of this cab objectively 'worse', not 'better'. My goal is not to improve the performance of the cab, but to change it's functionality, accepting the consequences (or reversing the changes if unacceptable). I am exploring this procedure out of a desire to use the gear I currently have, with an appetite for some risk, and due to space limitations in this band's practice space (the multi-use living room of a 450 sq. ft. cabin in the woods).

Why do I want this cab to be changed? Some years ago, I used a crossover and bi-amped; I'd run the lower frequencies dry and apply effects to the higher frequencies. I got away from that, but now I'd like to return to [EDIT: something similar] for one of the bands.

[EDIT: I'd be driving the cab with a power amp with individual controls for each of [EDIT: three) channels: (1) full signal dry and (2 & 3) mids and highs stereo fx ]

Thanks!

 

[BassmanPaul]

If the cabinet is physically divided into two air spaces you can split the wiring. If not this mod is not advisable. You should edit your title to reflect the tens instead of twelves.Assuming the cabinet has two airspaces the drivers in each should work together.

You also have to ascertain what the impedance of the individual drivers is. This impacts on the wiring.

 

[TwentyHz]

If the cabinet is physically divided into two air spaces you can split the wiring. If not this mod is not advisable. You should edit your title to reflect the tens instead of twelves.Assuming the cabinet has two airspaces the drivers in each should work together.

You also have to ascertain what the impedance of the individual drivers is. This impacts on the wiring.

Thanks, Paul.
Oops, fixed the title (and edited post re: amp and channels to provide better info)/

The cab is not split into two airspaces (nor was my PV 1820). I understand that it's not ideal. I'll reverse it if I'm not happy with it.

cab specs from: Invalid Link Removed
Impedance (Ohms) 8 Ohms Impedance
Power Handling 400 Watts Peak Power Handling
Low Frequency Drivers 4-10″ Special Design 8 ohm, 100 watt Speakers
High Frequency Driver 1″ Throat Compression Driver

Thanks.

 

[BassmanPaul]

Problem is that you can easily damage your drivers by feeding differing signals into your cabinet. The drivers will not be supporting each other.

 

[TwentyHz]

Problem is that you can easily damage your drivers by feeding differing signals into your cabinet. The drivers will not be supporting each other.

Thanks, I think is part of the risk I am willing to accept. I wouldn't expect to pushing the crap out of it; I don't now.

Re: "not support" ... am I correct that you are referring not to a circuity consideration, but rather to an aspect of shared airspace? ... That non-identical excursion into the cab yields certain aspects of fluid dynamics.... e.g. that a moving speaker is likely to encounter waves/turbulence/eddies of moving air under pressure that are either so profound or mathematically unlucky as to damage the speaker? If so, then does it follow that the ol' 1820 had its 10s' and 18's relative positions and design so precisely modeled in the design stage to avoid such catastrophe?

Thanks for your help and input.
Could you recommend a wiring diagram, despite your reservations about the plan?

 

[Downunderwonder]

Thanks, I think is part of the risk I am willing to accept. I wouldn't expect to pushing the crap out of it; I don't now.

Re: "not support" ... am I correct that you are referring not to a circuity consideration, but rather to an aspect of shared airspace? ... That non-identical excursion into the cab yields certain aspects of fluid dynamics.... e.g. that a moving speaker is likely to encounter waves/turbulence/eddies of moving air under pressure that are either so profound or mathematically unlucky as to damage the speaker? If so, then does it follow that the ol' 1820 had its 10s' and 18's relative positions and design so precisely modeled in the design stage to avoid such catastrophe?

Thanks for your help and input.
Could you recommend a wiring diagram, despite your reservations about the plan?

Drivers not fed the same bass signal get shoved the opposite direction while the ones doing the shoving lose the cab tuning support and easily crease.

 

[jazzbass_5]

If the speakers aren't separated in different chambers, not only will you damage them they'll sound terrible interacting with each other being fed different signals in the same cab. Don't do it. Get 2- 2x10 cabs.

 

[jazzbass_5]

And a Peavey 1820 is split into 2 separate chambers (the 2x10s are separate from the 18) I have 2 of them and one is laying apart in my band room right now

 

[TwentyHz]

Drivers not fed the same bass signal get shoved the opposite direction while the ones doing the shoving lose the cab tuning support and easily crease.

And a Peavey 1820 is split into 2 separate chambers (the 2x10s are separate from the 18) I have 2 of them and one is laying apart in my band room right now

Ahh... then my memory is way wrong.

Thanks, fellas.
I'm gonna go ahead and be one of those rare TB'ers who is stubborn, has an ill-informed wacky idea, and gets answers he doesn't 'want'... BUT actually takes the advice he receives: The 410 stays as-is!

 

[jazzbass_5]

Ahh... then my memory is way wrong.

Thanks, fellas.
I'm gonna go ahead and be one of those rare TB'ers who is stubborn, has an ill-informed wacky idea, and gets answers he doesn't 'want'... BUT actually takes the advice he receives: The 410 stays as-is!

Sorry, I totally understand and get ribbed or scolded for doing things others think I shouldn't frequently here. (Like adding ports to my sealed 8x10 or modifying my Ampeg SVP-PRO with +-12 volt rails) but in this case because of your intended use I'd have to go with no..
I've done what your doing with 2 previous 4x10 cabs Ive owned BUT I was feeding the speakers the same signal from a 2 channel power amp. The mod just allowed me to use both channels from my Power amp.

 

[agedhorse]

The biggest problem is that the drivers will no longer be tuned with the enclosure when they share the common air space. The response will be unpredictable, and it's entirely likely that the power handling will decrease by 50% or more. It will no longer take "driving the crap" out of the cabinet to potentially damage the drivers.

If you choose to do this mod, I encourage you to isolate the two air spaces and you might get acceptable results.

 

[seamonkey]

Many options here
Wiring a 4 X 12 Speaker cabinet

Consider what you do with the signal before sending output to amp.
Low bass frequencies should go to both sides in phase. All 4 speakers would see the same lows in phase and work like a single sub.
You can separate the higher frequencies to widen the sound.
It's not a simple crossover but can be done with a small mixer.
I don't know of any diagrams but a FOH engineer would probably be able to explain it.

 

[Downunderwonder]

If you were to hack up the cab to divide it inside you might as well go full Monty and turn it into twin vertical 210 cabs.

 

[Nev375]

I did this to a Hartke 410XL and got a very versatile cab to experiment with.

But that cab has a vertical internal baffle.

Best use for bass was to send a full range signal to one side and the other side was only the lows.

 

[Slevage]

Bad idea.
Better to Make two vertical tens.
Best idea--- sell them and start from scratch with a desired goal.