How to write better bass lines?

[MonetBass]

I’m gonna buck the trend here and say “meh” to theory. I know music theory and I also write a lot of bass lines for original music BUT I never use the first to do the second. I just do what sounds right to me. I don’t even know what notes I’m using when I’m composing because I’m doing it all by ear. I wrote a line the other day and when we played the song a theory guru member of the band said “why are you using a B there?”. I said “it’s a B?” (I didn’t know at that point because I compose/play on an unlined fretless). The B is still there and it sounds great . My point is: use your EARS. And don’t be afraid to TRY stuff. If you’ve listened to enough music in your life you already have a huge built-in archive of what sounds good. Trust that it’s there and that it WILL come out if you have the courage to experiment and make “mistakes”. Go you good thing!!

Since you know theory, you're using it albeit unconsciously.

I'll quote my bass and composition teacher here: "It's important that you learn the rules of music theory so that you can break them properly."

 

[RattleSnack]

Like other said, music theory.
But also listening to the song. Everything you need is already there - chords, beat, vocal line. There are motifs, melodies you can play unison with another instrument, breaks you can follow.

 

[SuperTheBass]

Easy way is start by learning a scale for each chord in the song. Practice using all the notes available in that scale instead of just the root and see what sounds good.

 

[higain617]

I think a lot of these guys were influenced by earlier post-punk players like Peter Hook and Barry Adamson. Maybe listen to some early New Model Army with Stuart Morrow on bass.

I don't discount learning theory, but I would imagine most just figured it out.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

Learn the notes between the chord roots that add and build tension.

Changing what you listen to in a group can help. How does your bass part fit in with the vocal or drum part? Does it answer them or reinforce them? Many bass parts just follow the guitar for instance.

I think knowing a little theory can help you name or recall what you like, but I don’t think you need it necessarily to write bass parts that you like.

But as always, serve the song.

 

[mambo4]

So what should I learn effectively?

The PDF linked in my signature contains what I believe is the 20% of theory that applies in 80% of situations
It includes

• the 12 intervals
• the major and minor scale form
• basic chord building
• harmonizing a scale

some may disagree with this bit of advice:
Do not waste time on modes until the above is understood.

--
A less mentioned but equally important area of study is learning the characteristics of many styles and genres.
Because after you answer the basic theory question what notes go with these chords?
The primary consideration for choices is style, not theory.

If melodic punk is the goal, learn as many melodic punk bass lines as possible ( Rancid gets my vote )
Then use theory to pick apart the structure of those lines.
--

I'd recommend just going by ear and playing attention to what notes seem like they'd sound good next.

Time tested truth. Even if you "use theory": you still ought to listen and choose

 

[MonetBass]

Here's an excellent resource: www.musictheory.net

Start with Lessons then move to Exercises. It's free.

 

[Heiwa]

Rancid gets my vote

Matt Freeman is the most creative punk rock bassist IMO. He makes play along videos on his YT channel

 

[Killing Floor]

There's not actually a wrong or right answer.

I'd argue that the real benefit to learning a little bit of theory is that you will more easily understand why things sound good to you. Theory doesn't tell you what you must play, it lays out all the reasons things work. It's more of an explanation than a demand.

Play through scales, modes, etc. All that "work" helps you normalize patterns in addition to setting locations on your instrument.
Don't be afraid to play. Only you and your band can say whether it's appropriate for your song.

One thing I'd say for players who use a lot of the wood in a song, the good ones are still maintaining contact with the root and the rhythm.

 

[Swerve]

Don't over think it. My approach has always been hear the bass line in my head first then go and find it on the fretboard. This doesn't usually work for the whole song, and sometimes I don't hear much of anything so I kind of just keep it simple. But when it works its magic.

This reminds me of all the YouTube channels where theory experts overanalyze songs to death and say "wow how did they come up with that" or "how did they know to mix these chords/scales together!". Then you ask the writer and they just shrug. Theory is good and all that but creativity can be tapped into without understanding it on paper. Use your ears and imagination.

 

[coyote1]

I’m gonna buck the trend here and say “meh” to theory. I know music theory and I also write a lot of bass lines for original music BUT I never use the first to do the second. I just do what sounds right to me. I don’t even know what notes I’m using when I’m composing because I’m doing it all by ear. I wrote a line the other day and when we played the song a theory guru member of the band said “why are you using a B there?”. I said “it’s a B?” (I didn’t know at that point because I compose/play on an unlined fretless). The B is still there and it sounds great . My point is: use your EARS. And don’t be afraid to TRY stuff. If you’ve listened to enough music in your life you already have a huge built-in archive of what sounds good. Trust that it’s there and that it WILL come out if you have the courage to experiment and make “mistakes”. Go you good thing!!

Music Theory has two main components: a) the science of sound, which is ultimately how the 12 notes have come to us today and how they interact, and b) the art of putting those sounds together.

If you are strictly a solo creator, perhaps you don’t need theory. I can even see where it might get in the way of free expression.

But if you are a collaborator, and especially if you’re a working pro, it’s a tool you need. I’ve seen plenty of folks who lack the tool struggle endlessly with harmonizing their melodies. Doesn’t mean you need attend Berklee; heck, such fantastic composers as Zappa have been self-taught. But if I’m a songwriter and looking for a collaborator, I’m going to seek someone who is familiar with the basics. And if I’m auditioning players for a working band, I absolutely want folks to whom I don’t need to explain chord substitutions.

“But what about ______ band? They did it all without theory.” Actually, you might be surprised. Take a just a rock and roll band such as Aerosmith. Two of the five spent time in music school! Deep Purple? The band with the simplest riff in history? The guitarist took lessons for over a year from the best guitar player in England, and the keyboardist wrote classical-style concertos.

How about punk - new wave band The Cars? Their lead guitarist Eliot Easton actually attended Berklee! Think it’s a coincidence that they had such a string of hits in varied styles, while many of their contemporaries were one-dimensional (the Ramones)??

Back to the OP: the one thing I would say that can make your bass lines more interesting, without delving into theory, is chromatic approach notes. There are solid theoretical reasons why these, particularly descending ones, tend to work. But you don’t really need to know why. Just try ‘em, and see what happens.

 

[xposaune]

I'll jump in here - I think if you hear something you like, you have to study and learn to applyl what's happening in your own way. Maybe you've been doing this.

i listened to some of the tracks and even put the rudimentary peni album into Moises so i can turn change the mix around to hear what the bass was doing in relation to other instruments. What i hear starts with playing roots - fine, but then there's walking to connect to the next chord - sometimes its a 1-3-4-b5-5 kind of thing. Somtimes it's pentatonic, sometimes it's playing around with octaves or approach tones. All this to say i'd start with what is the root movement. Play only roots for awhile - get it in your ear. Then you can add things - approach tones (a step or 1/2 step above or below the next note), or add other chord tones - 5ths even. Or add scale walks up or down to the next chord - use your ear to determine the quality of the scale (minor.major, pentatonic). Sometimes the vocal melody might matter. So to approach a song:
1. what's the basic chords and root movement - i get the sense your question is beyond this - how to create interesting lines over those chord changes.
2. For each chord what are the chord tones and more importantly how do you connect this chord to the next one?
2a. sometimes the melody can provide clues so it's always good to play the melody or at least hear it as you connect the bass to it

Yes it's theory but it's pretty basic. That said, this music is not easy - some of the chord progressions are angular and the tempos are wicked lol. The concepts of what's happening to create melodic bass lines are not that complicated though. You can learn them on simpler things and then apply it here. it's the work of a lifetime. it will take time and many small steps.

An example of an amazing line in another genre is James Jamersons Darling Dear. Lots of chord tones with chromatic approach. Note how the bass meets up with the vocals here and there, like where the vocal says "to be sincere, and true love will appear.." at about 1:40. A lot of what's happening here is also happening in Rudimentary Peni believe it or not.

 

[pepj]

Either have a great ear and therefore know what doesn’t sound right and/or know the notes of the chord as a starting point.

 

[Carl Hillman]

Hi everyone.

I've always been fascinated by bassists that don't just follow the root note, but play different stuff instead, giving making their style (and song) more memorable.
Lately I've been listening to some underground punk and metal music, the least underground of which is Rudimentary Peni, and the others being Invunche, Dawn of Humans and Kuka'ilimoku (I'll provide examples further on). Even trying to figure out what they play by ear is an excruciating task to me (Peni and Dawn of Humans in particular) and I suppose that is because I know no music theory.

I highly doubt these musicians (as raw and unpolished their music might seem) know nothing about theory.
So here's what I'm asking you: is there any essential tip (or bit of theory) that I should know, to help me write more original (and different from the guitar) bass lines?

Here's the aformentioned examples:






(here in particular, listen from 9:20 onwards, I've been trying to play that)


(least important example, honestly)

The examples you posted contain a lot of, what theorists call, nonfunctional harmony. This just means that analyzing the chord progressions won't necessarily give you a lot of info as to what the "right" notes are.
Also, since the music is mostly power chords with a few triads, learning chord/scale relationships for 13th, sus, 7th altered chords, etc. is information you don't need. It's nice to know, but it probably won't help you with those types of music.

I don't want to discourage you from learning theory, but if I were you, I'd just get started by experimenting with connecting the roots of the guitar chords with notes in between that sound right to you. IMO, part of what makes raw music like this interesting is the sometimes "wrong" notes. Just like in free jazz, if you play something that's not necessarily explainable by theory with enough conviction, it will work.

 

[HolmeBass]

How do I go about actually learning those things?
Just memorizing notes to play and applying them to different positions on the fretboard?

Learn a concept or two, then see how they have been used in bass lines you already know and like.

Learning the names of intervals === learning the major scale. Learn it in abstracted way, as numerical scale degrees, so it can be applied to any of the 12 notes, and to de-couple harmony from specific key centers.

Simply, the name of any interval is based off of the scale degree of the major scale, comparing the degree to the scales root.

So a “5th” interval is the distance, in half-steps (each fret along a particular string is a half-step) between the first note of the major scale and fifth note of the major scale.

Then realize that an interval is just that distance - the same interval exists between the 3rd note of the major scale and the 7th note. Spend a few minutes each day puzzling out the various intervals in the major scale like this.

Realize any bass line is a series of intervals linked by a specific rhythm.

Also begin to get a feel that the rhythm is actually more important than the notes. That can take a while, but eventually you will notice certain patterns of notes repeating from song to song and that the only difference is the rhythm. Key in on that.

 

[lamarjones]

The problem with a lot of that kind of music is that it is not gonna follow the sound of most popular tunes, given how dark sounding a lot of it is. Like can't imaging a lot of major or mixolydian in any of those, but a place to get a feel for different sound scales are the seven modes of the major scale, cause you obviously will be familiar with the major scale but it's like a blueprint of what not to do whereas some of the other ones will get you curious.

Slayer famously said they had to hire a PhD to tell them what they were actually doing with some of the tunes they were writing, and I totally believe it lol... Past that, keep learning tunes that move you... That'll start to sink in.

 

[activa44]

I'd suggest that if you mean "write bass lines" literally, that may be part of the issue. I'd recommend just going by ear and playing attention to what notes seem like they'd sound good next.

Of course, using music theory concepts to find new things to try and put in your tool box is a tried and true approach to this, and it's one I use, but it's not the only one I use.

Transcribing other people's bass lines is a good way to find out what they're doing, then you can apply the concepts of music theory to understand ("Oh, I see, here he's actually playing a 6-2-5-1 turnaround; where can I insert that pattern?") and try those things out in other places, but always the final judge whether to use or not use a certain pattern has to be the ears.

And since our subject here is BASS, it bears repeating that much of the time LESS IS MORE. Just because you COULD apply four substitutions according to Giant Steps changes in each bar and it would meet theoretical requirements, doesn't mean you SHOULD; maybe just pedaling the root for eight bars is what's actually needed.

I get what you mean and there is no need to complicate an already elaborate guitar riff, for instance. Sometimes less is actually more.
But in some other instances you might have a chance to enrich things a little bit.

As for what I mean by ''writing bass lines'' I mean just adapting the guitar riff into an original (from a bit different to very different) bass riff that goes along well with the guitar. If you have the time and patience, listen to the records I posted and you'll get what I mean.

 

[activa44]

Good advice right here!

The other thing I'd suggest is just learning the basslines of the players you like, with enough practice the part of your brain that holds musical influences will become more powerful and you'll quite naturally start incorporating those influences into your own writing.

Oh I do my best to learn some, yeah! I know about that. But most of them are very obscure to find tabs to and tough to decipher by ear.

 

[turf3]

I get what you mean and there is no need to complicate an already elaborate guitar riff, for instance. Sometimes less is actually more.
But in some other instances you might have a chance to enrich things a little bit.

As for what I mean by ''writing bass lines'' I mean just adapting the guitar riff into an original (from a bit different to very different) bass riff that goes along well with the guitar. If you have the time and patience, listen to the records I posted and you'll get what I mean.

The distinction I was making was between "writing" bass lines using pencil and paper (or modern gadget equivalent) versus playing the tune in real time and making up a line according to what you hear. The offline bassline creation using pencil and paper is a good way to create lines that seem like they'd be good but actually don't sound good.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Look into other styles of music where you can actually find the music for the song and analyze what they're doing. You're going to need to know some theory to do that. You'll really make your quickest gains with a teacher guiding you, but if that's not your thing I guess that won't help. Try some baselines from The Beatles. I know that's not your style, but there is a ton of high quality charts out there and the bass lines are well thought out and not just root note, root note, root note.