In that same vein, this forum is full of guys that don’t care for Pau's PowerPoint. So everyone has a different tolerance for professionalism.
I’m just a hack hobbies, but even in my circles, stuff gets around.
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I’m just a hack hobbies, but even in my circles, stuff gets around.
Exactly so. I’m very seldom out to prove a point. I get no joy out of seeing someone “get what’s coming them” no matter how well it may be deserved. And I’ve long since given up on trying to change how someone thinks or feels about anything. I only care about their actions. So all I ask is that they stop (or start, or continue) doing something. They can think and feel about it however they want AFAIC. All I concern myself with are their behaviors.
When somebody once asked me where I got off telling him what to do, I replied that I had absolutely no intention of telling him what to do. I was only telling him what he absolutely wasn’t going to do around me.
It’s a small distinction. But a significant one.
You might be on the right track there. Though I'm not a vindictive, evil kinda guy, and wouldn't be able bring myself to actually do this, but maaaaaybe said drummer needs to know how these jokes make you feel. To help him understand and give him a little insight, book a $500 (to him) gig in neighboring town (at least 1 to 2 hour drive) 1/2 hour before alleged start time text him "we have a gig tonight"?
Key word in my post was continually. I didn't mean to imply one off instances of button pushing whether intentional or not. Also, I appreciate you getting the context and not interpreting a threat where one did not exist.
It sounds like you are assuming I meant all when I never typed all.
I meant most people. People like you, for example.
Rawr
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This would be effective in getting the point across -- definitely. But it's coercive. When I was younger, I loved tricky and heavy-handed methods like these. They were cool. You know, someone won't confess they did something to you (like a mean or destructive practical joke) so you report/frame their best friend and get the friend in trouble with the principal. This is so the real perp comes forward and confesses so their friend doesn't take the heat. Flush him out. Get a confession.
Or hide a jerk's car keys at rehearsal for the joy of watching him scurry around as the forgetful, bumbling idiot. Then, "find" the keys for him and take a pot shot at him. Or tell him he "learned a lesson" about being more careful -- or some other power play like that. Been there, considered that, and decided it's not what I want to be. Like you said, you're not an evil guy and couldn't bring yourself to do it -- but maybe he needs it. Implicit in your statement is you are what you do -- and you don't want to become something you loathe.
A good movie to watch is Mississippi Burning -- Wilhem Dafoe and Gene Hackman. They start out using legal, conventional methods to stop racially motivated violence in the south. None of it works. Then, after it all fails. Gene Hackman uses Machivellian methods, deception, intimidation etcetera ands gets the perps to implode on each other. I've long believed those more coercive methods are only suitable when issues are critical and all the nice methods have failed. Not there yet....
My question to you is what kind of outfit do you run? However, if this is simply a matter of some petty foible, contrast that to the quality, i.e., the performance quality. Enhance or detract. If you don't care, why should he or anyone else? I always look to Duke for what he tolerated in his line-up compared to the brilliance of everyone on the bandstand -- drunk, stoned, sober. If you're not that kind of cat in the first place, you get what you pay for.
Personally, I do not know why you are asking for advice here ! If you have other options - do not call him anymore ! I have played for the past 4 years with a group of old friends. It is one of the most laid-back gigs I have ever played, and we only play 12-15 gigs a year. With that being said, we have fun, but a certain amount of respect is expected; you show up on time for rehearsals and gigs, you pitch-in to help with equipment when necessary, and you learn the material and show up prepared. If someone joked around in the manner you illustrated, I would have a serious problem with them ! It shows disrespect for the other members of the group, it shows a lack of seriousness and a lack of responsibility. I am sure that he "yucked" it up, and got a good laugh. But, in my eyes (and yours) what he did was not funny in the least ! My action would be this - simply do not use him anymore, and if he asks why - tell him !!
I chuckled when I read this. It's like saying "Everyone has a different tolerance for being good"."Everyone has a different tolerance for personal choice"....!
In my world, if people have a low tolerance for professionalism, then I don't want to work with them. Anything to weed them out before I have to put up with their behavior is fine with me. They can join other bands if they want. There's enough to go around.
The video concept worked so well, I used it next in a non-profit I have going. Tired of uncommitted volunteers after 20 years of non-profit leadership, I put together a package to attract the best and brightest in certain areas like marketing, project management, finance, etcetera.
It was amazing, I'd get 15 people expressing interest in volunteering. Of that many only about four would have any further interest after watching two, 9 minute videos where we talk about our commitment to volunteers, that the project will be a lot of work, what we expect of them, their mentors, expected time on email turnaround, and the perqs we give them.
Those four people grew to seven by referral, all of whom watched the videos, and we retained them all but one since September of 2015, and it's still going.
They our projects left when they moved internationally, or had a major life change (like a baby). And the surprising part was they were BUSY people. Already presidents of their own little projects and organizations, fast movers in their careers, already involved in other non-profits. And they were good.
You end up with a small little team of people with staying power, and very little leadership overhead. The way I did it for 20 years previously was taking anyone with a pulse, investing/wasting resources in getting them set up for their projects, only to have 7 of 9 people cancel half way through the project, or 10 minutes before meetings, demotivating everyone. Not so anymore.
I swear by strong expectation-setting, letting people know up front what they are in for, and letting people self-select out of the process if they don't fit. It saves me grief. And it tends to attract really good people.
Anyway, back to the point, this is a blip in the guy's history with me so far. A big blip, and the reason I don't go to firing is that I see the landscape...
This has been my experience in every long-running, personnel-stable working band I was ever in. Exactly one of them that worked more than once a month. I’m not counting the various duos, different animal.
But that’s basically my ideal, and it’s super rare, so I’ve ended up in a lot of groups that just have fun together. Which is fine and fun, too. But if I’m going to spend 8 hours making $50 bucks, and I absolutely will, I’m gonna need a certain amount of mellow. YMMV.
Obviously you don't mesh with the guy. I honestly think that from the extreme length of your posts it is bothering you a lot. Seems to me if your willing to spend this much time posting about his antics, you should know the answer to your question. If this was the workplace and this went on, how would you handle it? How would a superior handle it?
End the relationship, enjoy your day and stop over thinking this.
End the relationship, enjoy your day and stop over thinking this.
Stop making excuses for him. This is NOT humor; this is passive aggressive nonsense. If he can't conduct himself as a professional, which he obviously can, cut him loose.
Those “jokes” would drive me crazy! I had a similar situation at work with one of my guys telling me something had gone wrong just to watch my reaction. After the second time, I had an opportunity to do the same thing to him when he was under pressure. It worked and he never made that “joke” again.
But that might not work in your case. I think a frank discussion about him causing stress when you should all be having fun is in order.
He found out something bothers you, and hatched a plan to purposefully do it.
He should be either at the bottom of your list or off it.
He should be either at the bottom of your list or off it.
Somewhere there's a drummer out there laughing his butt off reading this thread and thinking to himself how he managed to get under this guy's skin so bad he wasted most of Christmas day posting about him.
"
Dude. Managing those gigs is hard. Everytime something goes really wrong it gives me a mini heart attack. One day, all those mini heart attacks may come together to one real one.
Do you want to be a part of me getting a heart attack? If so, and if you continue with that one joke, I really have to let you go.
If not, I say thank you.and here's to future gigs.
"
My rational for this is that people who do an ok job and who are for the most part fun to do music with don't exactly grow on trees. So I would think twice before dumping one.
Just my opinion.
Dude. Managing those gigs is hard. Everytime something goes really wrong it gives me a mini heart attack. One day, all those mini heart attacks may come together to one real one.
Do you want to be a part of me getting a heart attack? If so, and if you continue with that one joke, I really have to let you go.
If not, I say thank you.and here's to future gigs.
"
My rational for this is that people who do an ok job and who are for the most part fun to do music with don't exactly grow on trees. So I would think twice before dumping one.
Just my opinion.
Well what works in your environment wouldn't work in all environments is what I'm saying. A suit type uniform and sobriety for a jazz gig wouldn't fly at a punk show where the band is a drunk as the crowd.
I'm with you....if I played jazz, and a position you needed, and lived in FL, I'd definitely be calling you up.
Busy people like predictability ... Im busy but I get a lot done. Practice in my own time, utilize rehearsal for rehearsal and chit chat afterwards. We all only get the same time in a day, I like people that know how to make the most of their time and no games. Others are different is what I meant.
Yep. And there are certain situations I have never been comfortable in. The one you describe above is one of them.
