An exceptional group requires exceptional people. Everybody has to be super cool, conscientious, friendly, & flexible. Anybody who acted out like that on my gig would no longer get the call. As a BL, there’s no way I would tolerate any of that BS.
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I don't know the drummer, nor do I know you, so I can't provide any good advice. Additionally, there are always 2 sides to a problem like this. All I can say is that I joke around a lot (not quite like your friend, but enough that some people aren't quite sure when to take me seriously.) A couple of bands ago, I was my normal jovial self. However, my BL was a serious guy. He could be silly, but didn't care for my particular "brand" of humor. He told me about it, but I didn't take it seriously. You know, like some times you joke and people say "stop," but it's not like "STOP," ... it's like "Oh you, stop, you silly fellow." Haha. Or like when you're tickling your partner. Sometimes they tell you to cut it out, but with a wink and a smile. Well, I wasn't picking up on these cues. You know what? He didn't fire me. He had a heart to heart with me. He said "Listen PJMustangFreak, I like to joke with you, but I'm being serious. You have to stop. I'm not enjoying this." I was so embarrassed! I apologized. I really meant no harm. I was just trying to get laughs, I promise. We're still buddies to this day. The only reason I left the band was because I wanted to join a cover band situation with more regular work.
You've told this guy to knock it off. He didn't take you seriously. Present it a different way. From your post, he sounds reliable. Sounds like he delivers every time. No need to throw something good away due to miscommunications. Heck, the guy asked whether or not there was a gig and at the same time said "Merry Christmas." He wasn't trying to be mean.
Just my 2 cents.
You've told this guy to knock it off. He didn't take you seriously. Present it a different way. From your post, he sounds reliable. Sounds like he delivers every time. No need to throw something good away due to miscommunications. Heck, the guy asked whether or not there was a gig and at the same time said "Merry Christmas." He wasn't trying to be mean.
Just my 2 cents.
Long list of drummers you can call and this guy is purposely being a total PITA? Is this a trick question? Skip over his spot on the list and call the next guy. I wouldn't even tell him ahead of time. If you book the gigs, you have the power. Use it. It's his own damned fault.
You reminded me of something. I used to be quite sarcastic. A professional counselor flat out told me to knock it off. Sarcasm is always passive-aggressive in nature.
Am I missing something here?
You say you have a long list of solid, available drummers. So start spinning the Rolodex.
You guys are not on the same planet, attitude wise, and it's feeding your high blood pressure from the sound of your OP.
So . . . . DON'T over-think this (although I'm obviously late with THAT bit of advice) and DON'T call him any more.
Done.
Next?
You say you have a long list of solid, available drummers. So start spinning the Rolodex.
You guys are not on the same planet, attitude wise, and it's feeding your high blood pressure from the sound of your OP.
So . . . . DON'T over-think this (although I'm obviously late with THAT bit of advice) and DON'T call him any more.
Done.
Next?
This guy always shows up and takes care of business and you're thinking about ditching him because he's acting a little snide?
I found these two posts, juxtaposed, to be quite interesting. They should the opposite end of the poles.
The first post thinks that firing the guy is a no-brainer....
The second post indicates that firing the guy over something as small as this is unthinkable....
I said earlier where I fall on the spectrum, where I would have fallen many years ago, and why I am where I'm at...
I've enjoyed the discussion though. It shows the diversity of the world in terms of background. I wish I knew more about others' backgrounds and personalities.
The first post thinks that firing the guy is a no-brainer....
The second post indicates that firing the guy over something as small as this is unthinkable....
I said earlier where I fall on the spectrum, where I would have fallen many years ago, and why I am where I'm at...
I've enjoyed the discussion though. It shows the diversity of the world in terms of background. I wish I knew more about others' backgrounds and personalities.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Again, the last thing you need is more of a headache. One more thing you can try with the guy - ask him if he would pull that #$-_$# with his boss if the boss needed to know where he was.
I said earlier where I fall on the spectrum, where I would have fallen many years ago, and why I am where I'm at...
I've enjoyed the discussion though. It shows the diversity of the world in terms of background. I wish I knew more about others' backgrounds and personalities.
PauFerro, by the looks of it, you've put a lot of thought into this. Also, you have self-awareness. Not only are you thinking what you're thinking, you're asking other's opinions, and considering why you feel the way you feel, as well as why the drummer in question is acting the way he is. You're being about 99.999% more rational than the majority of people out there, who would've either A: flown off the handle, or B: been a pushover and just shrugged it off.
Lots of respect for you, man. You're a hell of a lot more responsible and rational than most.
I've enjoyed the discussion though. It shows the diversity of the world in terms of background. I wish I knew more about others' backgrounds and personalities.
PauFerro, by the looks of it, you've put a lot of thought into this. Also, you have self-awareness. Not only are you thinking what you're thinking, you're asking other's opinions, and considering why you feel the way you feel, as well as why the drummer in question is acting the way he is. You're being about 99.999% more rational than the majority of people out there, who would've either A: flown off the handle, or B: been a pushover and just shrugged it off.
Lots of respect for you, man. You're a hell of a lot more responsible and rational than most.
The concern I have about that one is that when working with musicians, it's like working with volunteers -- partly. Sure, they have an obligation to perform a certain way give the pay involved. But it is very part-time. So, drawing analogies between me as a boss, and them as an employee, while "somewhat accurate" could put a sword through the heart of the argument....
And that's the impression I got. It's not a 6-night-a-week, 50 weeks a year thing, so you're not 'firing' him. You're essentially a contractor, and as such, just take him off your list. Simple if you have many reliable alternatives you're more sympatico with.
PauFerro... I know what you should do. Seriously.
Send him a link to this thread. Seriously!
Let him read your well-worded and reasonable concerns. Then he can read all of the replies. When he's done, ask "Now what do YOU think I should do?"
I can't believe so many people are like "Drop him. He's a sociopath." As someone who has managed my fair share of people both musically and in a healthcare setting for years, I've learned that people are... well... people. I still vote for a heart-to-heart.
Send him a link to this thread. Seriously!
Let him read your well-worded and reasonable concerns. Then he can read all of the replies. When he's done, ask "Now what do YOU think I should do?"
I can't believe so many people are like "Drop him. He's a sociopath." As someone who has managed my fair share of people both musically and in a healthcare setting for years, I've learned that people are... well... people. I still vote for a heart-to-heart.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
The thing is, they do not remember that it may just be a fun evening for them with a little cash in their pocket, but for you, it's not. Add in the fact that you are not there, but are still responsible. If they are unwilling to deal with you as a professional, you don't want to deal with them - whether they are playing for $10 or $10,000. You aren't their boss, but a GC.
Interesting thread to read. Although 6 pgs is a bit much, but so it is. FWIW, I'm in my 60s, so have been around a while and ran a successful business before retiring, so have seen lots of behavior and acting-out over the years. Only a few things to add here -
1. Someone that I'd worked with/known for 6 years and have respect for their capabilities (as you have the drummer) is not worth throwing away (i.e. "firing") without investing a little effort to find out what is up with them and giving it a final shot. So kudos to you for trying to work it out one last time. Relationships with capable people in life are the most important thing (IME).
2. Too many players (not just drummers - lol) treat being in a band as an excuse to act out in a way that they might not in the rest of their life. Maybe its the musician's fantasy thing. Taking it seriously is a big thing for me. That doesn't mean not having fun, but life is too short for jerkoffs and wankers. This guy doesn't sound like either of those, but he may not realize how misaligned his behavior is with yours. What happens from here is up to him.
Good luck, hope that you can work it out.
1. Someone that I'd worked with/known for 6 years and have respect for their capabilities (as you have the drummer) is not worth throwing away (i.e. "firing") without investing a little effort to find out what is up with them and giving it a final shot. So kudos to you for trying to work it out one last time. Relationships with capable people in life are the most important thing (IME).
2. Too many players (not just drummers - lol) treat being in a band as an excuse to act out in a way that they might not in the rest of their life. Maybe its the musician's fantasy thing. Taking it seriously is a big thing for me. That doesn't mean not having fun, but life is too short for jerkoffs and wankers. This guy doesn't sound like either of those, but he may not realize how misaligned his behavior is with yours. What happens from here is up to him.
Good luck, hope that you can work it out.
After the gig, follow it up with "$500? That must have been a typo. It's $50."
/don't really do this
my 2 cents -- and of course, worth what you pay for it! 
the power to deal with humans comes from your self-knowledge first and foremost.
if you understand what you need to perform at your best, you can make sure you get it.
everyone has a different sense of humor and everyone has a different sensitivity to stress. for some, the advice of letting it roll off your back is right on. but it ain't one-size-fits-all. for the record, i don't buy the "just lighten up" feedback because it is the equivalent of asking the individual in question to "just stop acting a fool." (probably ain't gonna happen.)
i wouldn't recommend this to just anyone, but since you seem introspective and looking for answers (and, like the rest of us, are likely to keep running into suboptimal co-working situations) here goes:
Jungian psychology established the concepts of Introverts vs Extroverts, Thinking vs Feeling types, etc. The Thinking types typically tell the Feeling types their being too sensitive and the Extroverts just plain feel sorry for the Introverts (who can't imagine being any other way).
If you went to Harvard Business School they'd make you take this test and they'd have you take a class on how to leverage what it tells you about yourself and others. It's called the Myers Briggs test. You can take it here (free) and read more. Feel free to PM if you want to kick it around further.
Good luck & Merry Xmas!
the power to deal with humans comes from your self-knowledge first and foremost.
if you understand what you need to perform at your best, you can make sure you get it.
everyone has a different sense of humor and everyone has a different sensitivity to stress. for some, the advice of letting it roll off your back is right on. but it ain't one-size-fits-all. for the record, i don't buy the "just lighten up" feedback because it is the equivalent of asking the individual in question to "just stop acting a fool." (probably ain't gonna happen.)
i wouldn't recommend this to just anyone, but since you seem introspective and looking for answers (and, like the rest of us, are likely to keep running into suboptimal co-working situations) here goes:
Jungian psychology established the concepts of Introverts vs Extroverts, Thinking vs Feeling types, etc. The Thinking types typically tell the Feeling types their being too sensitive and the Extroverts just plain feel sorry for the Introverts (who can't imagine being any other way).
If you went to Harvard Business School they'd make you take this test and they'd have you take a class on how to leverage what it tells you about yourself and others. It's called the Myers Briggs test. You can take it here (free) and read more. Feel free to PM if you want to kick it around further.
Good luck & Merry Xmas!
That is why I'm NOT the bandleader. I'm the guy who shows up, knows and plays the songs and strive to be easy and pleasurable to work with. In my mid to late 50's, I'm trying to decrease the stress in my life as much as possible. The consensus among those whom I'm assuming are BL's (Joe Nerve, p-cake and others), seems to be to cut him loose. You seem to undertake a great deal of stress in your role. My question is: Is it worth it?
