Double Bass hybrid gut string choices 2024

[crd]

I can’t tell how much of that is me and how much gut.

If it can be done, I haven't seen it! There is a Russian virtuoso who played in the upper end of the register with guts but I don't really dig his sound. There is a reason why PC hardly plays above the heel.

But man, the money notes sure do sound good with raw gut.

 

[Phil Rowan]

FWIW, I only used unvarnished D and G Gamuts back when I had my Kay bass with a longer string length than my current “jazz” bass. I always felt the unvarnished raw guts helped with the bow gripping the strings without the need to over-rosin. That bass was my then “jazz” bass but I used to love practicing arco stuff on it. If only my current “jazz” bass (41” string length) worked with guts… although, maybe it’s worth it cuz saves me saves me a good bit of dough.

 

[garrett2]

I find the problem is that once you get up above the 1st octave the thickness of the strings doesn't allow them to vibrate as openly. This is particularly true of my unwrapped D string, but also the G.

 

[groooooove]

so it looks like what i'm looking for does not exist outside of genssler - which i would still purchase, if he can use gut, and if i can get him to answer my emails (!!)

but in the meantime, i wrote to gamut asking if they can do custom sets. it looks like they offer strings with a silver flat winding (violin) so theoretically possible if they have the materials and machines..

but i doubt they will do it, but it certainly does not hurt to ask.

i suppose my only choice is to wait to one day hear back from gerold.

 

[Eli Brockway]

it's hard to say because really this thread is about looking for what is available. The ideal string would likely be wrapped gut. But, if plain D and G are responsive under the bow enough for 'regular' (not baroque specific) orchestral playing, i'd try them.

Given that the majority of the repertoire was written when gut strings were the only option, I think you'll be fine. Even with a plain A. Once you develop a feel for it you'll make it work.

If it can be done, I haven't seen it! There is a Russian virtuoso who played in the upper end of the register with guts but I don't really dig his sound. There is a reason why PC hardly plays above the heel.

But man, the money notes sure do sound good with raw gut.

Check this guy's channel. Or Pasquale Massaro's. Plain gut strings, playing Bottesini. Even on that one, just a phone recording, I challenge you to tell me it doesn't sing.

 

[crd]

Given that the majority of the repertoire was written when gut strings were the only option, I think you'll be fine. Even with a plain A. Once you develop a feel for it you'll make it work.





Check this guy's channel. Or Pasquale Massaro's. Plain gut strings, playing Bottesini. Even on that one, just a phone recording, I challenge you to tell me it doesn't sing.

They both sound great but uh, neither strike me as particularly lyrical in thumb position. (I am not an expert in period performance, but I think there is some debate as to whether or not Bottesini played gut strings.) As a listener, I would take any number of players using modern set-up's playing Bottesini. It's not that you can't play the entire instrument with the bow on raw gut. You can ... but if you are working in thumb position a lot, why not save yourself $500 or so dollars and a whole lot of trouble while sounding better?

 

[groooooove]

They both sound great but uh, neither strike me as particularly lyrical in thumb position. (I am not an expert in period performance, but I think there is some debate as to whether or not Bottesini played gut strings.) As a listener, I would take any number of players using modern set-up's playing Bottesini. It's not that you can't play the entire instrument with the bow on raw gut. You can ... but if you are working in thumb position a lot, why not save yourself $500 or so dollars and a whole lot of trouble while sounding better?

ahhhh i dont know..

his playing is beautiful..

shall we compare it to rinat? he played on eudoxa... certainly, they are different player in countless ways. but, to remove the artist and talk about strings exclusively, it is fair to say the raw gut example above demonstrates less width in the vibrato.

I don't think a tighter vibrato inherently means it's un-lyrical. it's undoubtedly different, and for sure i see where you are coming from: xavier foley can make his bass literally sing, on modern metal strings (not even sure what he uses?)

but i think there are significant valuable trade offs for the raw gut in this example. the upper register is so vibrant on gut strings, and that shows here. it's never harsh, though. just very rich, quite complex, and clear.

but, for modern times and a player like me (i will play solos, orchestra, and jazz sometimes in the same day) i understand that the raw gut - though extremely cool, beautiful and valid - may not be a practical all-around choice.

if i had multiple instruments, without question one would be strung with such strings.

for now, i've got my fingers crossed that gamut is open to doing a custom set, or gerold starts answering emails

i am hopeful that sometime in the future there will be a readily available (im sure expensive, too) gut core, low tension, 'modern' string.

 

[garrett2]

Given that the majority of the repertoire was written when gut strings were the only option, I think you'll be fine. Even with a plain A. Once you develop a feel for it you'll make it work.





Check this guy's channel. Or Pasquale Massaro's. Plain gut strings, playing Bottesini. Even on that one, just a phone recording, I challenge you to tell me it doesn't sing.

They are great but the three strings are another variable. I agree that they don't really sing. Neither does Bylsma, and he is my favorite Bach player. Isserlis sings on steels. Guts do something different and wonderful. But they are not nearly as flexible for a wide range of playing.

 

[groooooove]

flexible for a wide range of playing.

this is the ideal we are all chasing..

i do still believe wrapped gut to be the most capable of this..

we shall see!

 

[JBarz]

Reading you lot’s gut poetry and prose above inspired me to switch back from Obligato to plain gut on the top end (over RM Sprios) of my 5ths 5’r this morning and holy moly it feels good to be back…

 

[AGCurry]

I challenge you to tell me it doesn't sing.

Yeah, gut strings can sing. It's just a different voice.

 

[JBarz]

Since we’re all allowed to ask at least one stupid question annually with our membership dues here, I want to use mine:

Has anyone ever experimented with teflon as a gut string covering?

I’m back on top-end plain gut (home-base for me, tbh) and am already getting annoyed by the hairs/maintenance again. I’m only buying varnished from now on - Memphis humidity is too much for compulsively maintained plain gut, me thinks.

 

[groooooove]

Since we’re all allowed to ask at least one stupid question annually with our membership dues here, I want to use mine:

Has anyone ever experimented with teflon as a gut string covering?

I’m back on top-end plain gut (home-base for me, tbh) and am already getting annoyed by the hairs/maintenance again. I’m only buying varnished from now on - Memphis humidity is too much for compulsively maintained plain gut, me thinks.

I wish there were more string makers out there experimenting with new materials...

part of me hopes one of elon's kids grows up to be a bass player who struggles to find the perfect hybrid string, and he will focus his mind and assets towards solving the issue for good with an innovative new string. I just hope we don't need a brain implant to make it work.


seriously though - the point of this thread was "who else can ballpark what mr.genssler does?" and it seems the answer is nobody, which is a real shame.

 

[Selim]

seriously though - the point of this thread was "who else can ballpark what mr.genssler does?" and it seems the answer is nobody, which is a real shame.

I have zero experience playing on gut, so maybe that counts me out for comment - but from I was a child, I grew up hearing jazz played by bass players with gut on record. So just chiming in to say that after 6 months with the Tempera hybrids, yes they are not actually gut but I think the pizz sound I'm getting is pretty gut-like. And they bow beautifully pretty much over the entire fingerboard. Maybe that (just barely) qualifies them as a "hybrid" solution.

 

[groooooove]

I have zero experience playing on gut, so maybe that counts me out for comment - but from I was a child, I grew up hearing jazz played by bass players with gut on record. So just chiming in to say that after 6 months with the Tempera hybrids, yes they are not actually gut but I think the pizz sound I'm getting is pretty gut-like. And they bow beautifully pretty much over the entire fingerboard. Maybe that (just barely) qualifies them as a "hybrid" solution.

i have the tempera hybrid now and they're incredible.

they are the best available hybrid string i'm aware of.

 

[Selim]

they are the best available hybrid string i'm aware of.

Well they knocked the Spiros off of my bass. And Spiros work exceptionally well as a hybrid string for me. I only have one bass.

 

[Eli Brockway]

There's no accounting for subjective taste, but, as I have a vested interest in believing my opinions are objectively correct and everyone else's are wrong, I'm going to say that those who think guts don't sing or can't sound as good as steels, especially up in thumb position, have suffered either age-related or gig-related hearing loss. You all have the opportunity now to blame your drummers for this disagreement.

To answer the question about anybody that comes close to what Gerold does: I don't have a clue of any, personally. The closest were Velvet strings (which, wasn't he one of their string designers when they started up?), which obviously aren't available anymore. From what I know he stopped working with gut as a core material a few years ago and has never picked it back up since.

 

[groooooove]

There's no accounting for subjective taste, but, as I have a vested interest in believing my opinions are objectively correct and everyone else's are wrong, I'm going to say that those who think guts don't sing or can't sound as good as steels, especially up in thumb position, have suffered either age-related or gig-related hearing loss. You all have the opportunity now to blame your drummers for this disagreement.

To answer the question about anybody that comes close to what Gerold does: I don't have a clue of any, personally. The closest were Velvet strings (which, wasn't he one of their string designers when they started up?), which obviously aren't available anymore. From what I know he stopped working with gut as a core material a few years ago and has never picked it back up since.

all valid points.

gerold "can" work with guts, but with limited availability and quantity from what i understand.

so weird that such a great sounding set of parameters - gut core, flatwound, low tension - is only available from one place.

never did hear back from gamut about a special order... maybe i'll try calling. i doubt they'll do it, but again, it'd be nice to have choices.

 

[Eli Brockway]

Yeah. I'm not familiar with the tension from Olivs or Eudoxas, but we all know how expensive those are too, and Eudoxas especially have a reputation for fragility.

 

[garrett2]

I’m only talking about arco, in thumb position.