I’ve gone Fenderless

[ToddB1963]

Good that you got one that works for you Sir. Maybe those instruments made during the ‘bad’ era are actually of better quality than the current era.

The thing with Fender basses from any era is that they can be 'hit and miss'.

Here's a snapshot of my experience with them across the board over the past 40+ years.

(I've gone to the trouble of doing this because I'm recovering from hip surgery, somewhat immobile, haven't got much else to do, and just wanted to re-assure you that there's no shame in taking a break from Fender as there are some excellent alternatives out there).

Check out the list below. The triple asterisks *** signify those I own/have owned, all of which were gigged extensively. Others were tried /auditioned at jam sessions or borrowed and tried out for an extensive period. Please note that I try to as unbiased/dispassionate as I can be when it comes to assessing individual basses, including my own. Also note how quality has fluctuated from instrument to instrument through the years.

All but the 2014 CS Journey Precision have long since been sold.

• 1969 Precision: Sunburst - alder/rosewood. Heavy. Bridge crooked. Clunky. Owner sold it for $6000. I would have paid no more than $1500. 3/10
• 1971 Precision: Sunburst - alder/rosewood. Mid-weight. Very nice player. 7/10
• 1973 Jazz: Sunburst - alder/maple. Light. Very nice player. 6.5/10
• 1975 Precision: Sunburst - alder/rosewood. Mid weight. Very nice player. Excellent fit 'n finish. Equal best Fender bass I've played. 8/10
• 1978 Jazz: Black - hard ash/rosewood. Very heavy (12lbs). Very poor fit 'n finish. 3-bolt neck. Loose neck pocket. 3/10*** (This was my main instrument for 20 years. I kept it because I couldn't afford anything else)
• 1983 JV Squier Jazz (First of the MIJ "Fenders" built under license) with fretless conversion: Tobacco burst. Good fit 'n finish. 6.5/10
• 1997 MIJ Noel Redding sig. '64 RI Jazz - alder/rosewood. Mid-weight. Great player. Excellent fit 'n finish. Equal best Fender bass I've played. 8/10 (asked owner if he'd sell it to me, but he declined)
• 2007 MIJ '62 RI Jazz: Sunburst - alder/rosewood. Mid-weight. Good fit 'n finish. Good player although pickups were anemic. 6/10***
• 2010 MIA '62 RI Precision: Sunburst - alder/rosewood. Mid-weight. Average fit 'n finish. Good player. 6.5/10***
• 2012 American Standard Jazz: Black - alder/rosewood. Mid-weight. Average fit 'n finish. Good player. 6.5/10*** (supposedly the golden years for American standard instruments: The control cavities on mine were chock-full of sanding dust; the seams of the three-piece body were very visible through the paint, there were other imperfections in the finish, and the string-through ferrules continually fell out as I changed strings)
• 2014 CS Journeyman '59 Precision: Transp. white - swamp ash. Light. Good fit 'n finish. Good player with a ton of mojo. 7.5/10***

For reference - other basses (non-Fender) I own/gig.

• 1982 Yamaha BB2000: Sunburst - alder/ebony. Reverse PJ. Built like a tank. Excellent fit 'n finish. Best 4 string bass I've ever laid my hands on. 9.9/10
• 1984 Yamaha BB3000: Black - alder/ebony. PJ. Very solid. Good fit 'n finish. 8.5/10
• 1992 Yamaha TRB6P: Trans orange/maple/ebony. Also built like a tank. Excellent fit 'n finish. 9.5/10
• 2003 Yamaha TRB6II: Trans amber/maple/rosewood. Again, very solid. Excellent fit 'n finish. 9/10
• 1981 Ibanez RS824 Roadster: Mahogany/maple. P.J. Excellent in all aspects. Mojo for a month of Sundays. Straight 'P' tone is as good as any maple-board precision, and it has that PJ growl which is perfect for rock/funk/pop 8.5/10

Retired from gigging.

• 2004 EBMM Stingray 4H 3EQ: Natural - maple. Excellent fit n finish. Tone is great for some things, not so good for others. 7.5/10

I'm currently hankering for a jazz bass, but it won't be a Fender. It'll be a Yamaha sb or a Moon JJ4.

So, there you have it.

Good luck.

 

[J Wilson]

Fender is trapped by being in the business of building legacy instruments.

That is, they are bound to keep building Strats, Teles, Precision's, and Jazz Basses eternally. They indeed are legendary classics, and these will always continue to sell. But it's a blessing . . . and a curse.

By now, over several different owners, different manufacturing methods and locations, and a constantly changing customer base and retail climate, they continue to sell. And there's the rub:

Improve them in ways most any of us experienced hands could suggest, then suddenly they're 'too modern, not like the classics, they've lost their way'. Which they've tried at times, and heard that kickback.

Go back and make tool mark and sanding stroke reissues that are perfect duplicates of the vintage models, then you get 'dang Fenders, still stuck in the 50's, don't they know it's the 21st century?'. Did that too, heard that too.

See where this is going? And besides, for a LOT of guys, they're just fine, get a deal on one at Guitar Center or Sweetwater, and life is good, and Fender churns them out like Big Macs and they laugh all the way to the bank.

There's a lot of Voodoo BS in the guitar business. The truth is they're building the best axes they've ever built, but this just in:

Every bass isn't for everyone, and obviously the OP's PERSONAL experience is not satisfying and his expectations are going to have to be met by another brand.
This happens to most all of us over time, I've sold lots of stuff in my time. It's time to move on and find what's out there that fits you now. The good news is there's lots of choices once you leave FSO orbit . . . and come back down to Earth.

QC is tricky. Mass produced instruments will indeed have a flaw that gets past the inspectors, and custom instruments can have a flaw since there were no inspectors. Humans are never 100% correct, but by and large, instruments are far cleaner now.

 

[Dan1985]

Shoot, got my first American non-Squier Precision Bass today. Now I see this thread.

 

[Azari]

Fenders bore me. Aria Pro II 4 the win

 

[GIBrat51]

Good that you got one that works for you Sir. Maybe those instruments made during the ‘bad’ era are actually of better quality than the current era.

Well...
The general consensus of opinion seems to be that, with very few exceptions, all the '70's Fenders are pretty much crap. However...
In 30+ years of buying basses, I've noticed that, even when certain basses are not well thought of - or, certain years are not well thought of -the left handed ones often seem to be the exceptions. Maybe because, usually being made in small batches, or maybe not made on the assembly line, they often seem to be... well, maybe just built a little better. My P-Bass is not only a lefty, but it also got a... not exactly rare optional neck (the "B" neck being by far the most common), but, one that's not often seen. Rickenbacker, for example, does not make left handed basses - or guitars - until they have enough orders to make it economically feasible to shut the entire production line down, and re-tool for lefties. Pretty much all my basses are... well, at least a little nicer than the average right handed one...

 

[oranje]

I play Fender type things, P’s and J’s that are a mishmash of necks, bodies and parts. They are one-off, wonderful units specific to my whims and tastes. IMHO the beauty of Fenders (FSOs) is the ability to modify and easily swap out parts and components and there is an abundance of aftermarket companies to get exactly what you want. I have always made or modded my own. I did own a stock Precision Standard once, for about 5 months, Meh. Never been a big fan of “stock” basses or guitars, the exceptions being my Moollon and ACs.

 

[ravlin]

I've only been playing for 30 years and I do try to wander into a music shop if I can find an excuse. I even worked at GC for a year and some change. I've never played a fender that I thought was better than any of the other basses at half the price. I do have several Warmoth FSO so it's not the design, it's the workmanship and attention to detail. EBMM are another classic Leo design, but put one up against a Fender at equivalent price (an Ultra) and the quality difference is obvious. I always feel like I should have one since everyone else loves them, but I haven't found one I'd pay sale price for.

 

[GreyBeard]

I have 2 fenders in my collection. A ultra jazz 5 and a player +5. The player sounds and plays great but it is a real boat anchor. The Ultra came with a loose neck that my tech found when I had him set it up. After the setup it is fine. Like others have wrote, QC for Fender is hit or miss.

 

[Pings Bass]

Eleven? Don't you look them over and play them before you buy?

I dunno man, I'm only gonna get a couple lemons from a brand before I look elsewhere. I really don't understand how you could keep going back after the first couple dogs.

Fender is a legacy brand with name caché, which is important to brand-conscious and nostalgic consumers. There's nothing special about their basses beyond that.

When I was growing up fender was the only real choice, but that was 50 years ago. No reason to believe "every bassist needs a fender" in the 21st century.

 

[prndltech]

I have 3 basses and only one is a fender… if you’re counting Squier!

 

[VW fan]

About me - I've never owned a Fender, I'm not a serious professional player. I have no reason to love or hate Fender.

In the beginning I considered buying one (hasn't every bass player ever?). I assumed they were the gold standard. Researching reviews and forums proved otherwise. For every glowing review there was a sour one.

The situation seems obvious. Fender made relatively good quality instruments 50 years ago. They became #1, rightly so. Then economic conditions, business dynamics, players, etc. changed. Fender let QC slip and coasted along on their name and the reputation they built years ago. Sure, they throw out a few well made instruments on occasion to keep the tarnish off the brand.

Now Fender's target consumers are yuppy wives buying b-day presents for their husband who was in a garage band 20 years ago. And teenagers who need something to fool around with when the internet goes down.

I believe this business model is nowadays very common.

 

[smurfco]

ok

 

[rmayer]

I owned my perfect Fender bass late 70’s-early 80’s. It was a ‘62 Jazz Bass. Everything was wonderful, feel, weight, and the sound! Still kicking myself for selling it. Before and after it I’ve owned mostly US Fenders, even a CS Custom Classic. None of them did it.
Went to Sadowsky after the Custom Classic, started with their Japanese Metro ( blew away the CS) and then NYCs. Besides Sadowsky, I found my favorite Leo bass. It’s G&L, I’ve had both JBs and LB100s (still have one now). My favorite P bass. Excellent fit and finish, great necks and pickups are the best stock pickups out there.
Believe me, over the years I’ve tried to buy a Fender but their either too heavy (for me) or limited color choices, or I can’t get the neck width and profile I want, or all of the above.

 

[Relayer71]

Shoot, got my first American non-Squier Precision Bass today. Now I see this thread.

If you take it back to the store and show them this thread, you'll get a refund, a cup of coffee, and a hug.

 

[MachMike]

I didn’t know what to call this thread. ‘Dear Fender’ was an option but I thought about it and came to the realization that if anybody from Fender actually read this thread they wouldn’t give two hoots about it anyway. So it is what it is, today I sold my last Fender. Finally, and it gives me much joy and satisfaction to declare that I have gone Fenderless. Allow me to elaborate, and - disclaimer - I may upset some Fender fans here.

When I began my bass journey it was clear. I needed a Fender. The Precision Bass. The Jazz Bass. What more could I ever need? My first was a Mexican made Precision. It sucked, big time. The finishing was horrible, the sound was lame. Ok, fine, I’ll try an American made instrument. The Performer series came out. I bought a beautiful Lake Placid Blue Performer PJ. It arrived and I drooled over my American Fender. I plugged her in. No sound. Nothing. Not a peep. Returned it to the store who refused to change it but said they’d let their tech fix that up for me. A few days later she came back home. Nice P sound. Nice fretboard. I like it. I tried the J. Disappointing. Very disappointing. Unusable. Ok, next I’ll drop a few more coins and go for the Pro model. Hmm. Not bad despite the bridge/pole pieces/strings/neck not being aligned. It actually sounded fine. But no, my OCD can not deal with this. If I carry on like this describing every issue with all of the 11 Fenders I’ve had, I will bore you to sleep.

I’m trying to be brief. Seriously. 11 Fender Basses:
1 Mexican made Mustang
2 Mexican Made Precisions
1 American Performer PJ
2 American Professional ii Precisions
2 American Vintage ii Precisions
1 American Professional ii Jazz Bass
1 American Vintage ii Jazz Bass
1 CIJ Jazz Bass

Now to be fair, the CIJ Jazz was very nice. The tone, the growl, the construction, fit and finish. It was just a boat anchor. Even so, it’s the only one I was sad to let go. Two of the Am Pro ii units were kind of ok - if they retail at around 500 bucks, which they do not.

Perhaps the most disappointing were the American Vintage ii units. Given the price tag I would expect a LOT better than what I got. I kept my first AVii Precision for a few weeks and could not deal with the QC issues, although I loved the tone. So I got another. SSDD. The biggest ill fitting neck pocket I have ever seen in all my days. I got the Jazz. Heartbreaking. How can this company allow instruments to leave their low paying mass producing factory in such poor condition? Seriously, pay people enough to actually give a damn what they send out the door. I could go on and on. I could cry and bitch and moan all day long. What good would it do? You know what Fender? There is a company called Reverend (my saviors) that do give a damn what goes out the door. Reverend make quality instruments with a very reasonable price to match. Sire is another company. I would say from vast experience that the American line of Fenders should be at a Sire price point. And Reverend is custom shop all day long. Yamaha is another great example of a company that make fine quality instruments without having to remortgage your house to finance the purchase.

Yesterday I sold a barely used AVii Jazz for a thousand bucks. Today, a barely used AVii Precision for less than a grand. I feel guilty that I have ripped the buyers off.

Seriously Fender. You suck. You suck big time.

For those of you that own the perfect Fender I am truly happy for you, but I feel those people are very few and far between. This is not a debate, I just wanted to get this off my chest in the hope the pioneering company of the electric bass realizes that their legacy is in serious danger of dying out and do something about it. Unless it’s Japanese made, I will never consider another Fender. Gullible consumers and future rock stars beware of these frauds.

Like I said, I sold my last Fender today. Today was a good day.

I had return 4 2023 Fender Ultra P-Basses. 4. Its documented here on Talk Bass. With serial numbers. The 5th was good. But it took me about 6 months to make it play to my liking. Part of that was me just being disgusted with the quality. This is their flagship bass made in America. Also my first Fender. Over all 0/10 would not buy again. I was buying because I kept getting requests for one to be used in session work. I was sick of borrowing them. Someone on that thread later on gave some great advice: This ---> Buy a well used Fender that you know works well. <---this.



MY Sandberg VM-4 is on a completely different level of quality and playability. Fender have a very cool and unique sound. I do plan on selling the Ultra (for a 50s re-issue P-Bass) because I only use it in passive mode, the controls are a cluster shag. It's like half the bass is wasted. While I do have this one dialed in and functioning great, I'm loving the sound etc.. the mass bridge just kills the ability to really dial the bass in. The neck is fantastic on the Ultra (despite all of the other flaws). So at least there is that. Fender QC is worst in industry by a country mile. I feel you.

 

[MrAB4003]

I didn’t know what to call this thread. ‘Dear Fender’ was an option but I thought about it and came to the realization that if anybody from Fender actually read this thread they wouldn’t give two hoots about it anyway. So it is what it is, today I sold my last Fender. Finally, and it gives me much joy and satisfaction to declare that I have gone Fenderless. Allow me to elaborate, and - disclaimer - I may upset some Fender fans here.

When I began my bass journey it was clear. I needed a Fender. The Precision Bass. The Jazz Bass. What more could I ever need? My first was a Mexican made Precision. It sucked, big time. The finishing was horrible, the sound was lame. Ok, fine, I’ll try an American made instrument. The Performer series came out. I bought a beautiful Lake Placid Blue Performer PJ. It arrived and I drooled over my American Fender. I plugged her in. No sound. Nothing. Not a peep. Returned it to the store who refused to change it but said they’d let their tech fix that up for me. A few days later she came back home. Nice P sound. Nice fretboard. I like it. I tried the J. Disappointing. Very disappointing. Unusable. Ok, next I’ll drop a few more coins and go for the Pro model. Hmm. Not bad despite the bridge/pole pieces/strings/neck not being aligned. It actually sounded fine. But no, my OCD can not deal with this. If I carry on like this describing every issue with all of the 11 Fenders I’ve had, I will bore you to sleep.

I’m trying to be brief. Seriously. 11 Fender Basses:
1 Mexican made Mustang
2 Mexican Made Precisions
1 American Performer PJ
2 American Professional ii Precisions
2 American Vintage ii Precisions
1 American Professional ii Jazz Bass
1 American Vintage ii Jazz Bass
1 CIJ Jazz Bass

Now to be fair, the CIJ Jazz was very nice. The tone, the growl, the construction, fit and finish. It was just a boat anchor. Even so, it’s the only one I was sad to let go. Two of the Am Pro ii units were kind of ok - if they retail at around 500 bucks, which they do not.

Perhaps the most disappointing were the American Vintage ii units. Given the price tag I would expect a LOT better than what I got. I kept my first AVii Precision for a few weeks and could not deal with the QC issues, although I loved the tone. So I got another. SSDD. The biggest ill fitting neck pocket I have ever seen in all my days. I got the Jazz. Heartbreaking. How can this company allow instruments to leave their low paying mass producing factory in such poor condition? Seriously, pay people enough to actually give a damn what they send out the door. I could go on and on. I could cry and bitch and moan all day long. What good would it do? You know what Fender? There is a company called Reverend (my saviors) that do give a damn what goes out the door. Reverend make quality instruments with a very reasonable price to match. Sire is another company. I would say from vast experience that the American line of Fenders should be at a Sire price point. And Reverend is custom shop all day long. Yamaha is another great example of a company that make fine quality instruments without having to remortgage your house to finance the purchase.

Yesterday I sold a barely used AVii Jazz for a thousand bucks. Today, a barely used AVii Precision for less than a grand. I feel guilty that I have ripped the buyers off.

Seriously Fender. You suck. You suck big time.

For those of you that own the perfect Fender I am truly happy for you, but I feel those people are very few and far between. This is not a debate, I just wanted to get this off my chest in the hope the pioneering company of the electric bass realizes that their legacy is in serious danger of dying out and do something about it. Unless it’s Japanese made, I will never consider another Fender. Gullible consumers and future rock stars beware of these frauds.

Like I said, I sold my last Fender today. Today was a good day.

Congrats on becoming 7ender-less OP! I totally understand where you're coming from. Thankfully, we live in a time when 7ender isn't the only manufacturer making FSOs. Their competition is blowing them out of the water in terms of quality, especially with what's coming out of Mexico!

I own 2 Rickenbackers and 2 7enders (1 of which is a Squier). My Squier is my first ever bass and I will never get rid of it. It's also my piccolo bass, which I sometimes treat more like a guitar than a bass. Plus, I have modded it to my specifications as its original parts stopped working over time. For example, I replaced the original VVT preamp with a volume-tone-pickup selector preamp.

My other 7ender is my American Pro II Precision Bass. It's behind my 2 Rics in the rotation because it's not as versatile tonally. I tried selling it, but I decided against it because I feel the need to have a P Bass in my inventory for tonal variety. I have also noticed how the bridge and the pole pieces aren't perfectly aligned and I find that annoying too! I had to move the strings over slightly on the bridge to align them with the pole pieces.

Care to share a picture of your 7ender-less bass inventory?

 

[tIANcI]

My first Fender was a late 80s Precision Lyte, it was good. Then I acquired a 78 Jazz. I gave the Lyte to my nephew and kept the 78 Jazz. I'm fortunate that my Jazz Bass is decent. Neck pocket ain't the best fitting but it's stable. It's like wearing an anchor but I keep it for the nostalgia. I do like the tone though. But many other manufacturers are building great sounding basses that cost less than a US Fender.

My fav bass is still a late 90s Status Graphite Empathy 4. Very well built, easy to play and sounds great.

 

[El Trueno]

Eleven? Don't you look them over and play them before you buy?

I dunno man, I'm only gonna get a couple lemons from a brand before I look elsewhere. I really don't understand how you could keep going back after the first couple dogs.

Fender is a legacy brand with name caché, which is important to brand-conscious and nostalgic consumers. There's nothing special about their basses beyond that.

When I was growing up fender was the only real choice, but that was 50 years ago. No reason to believe "every bassist needs a fender" in the 21st century.

So this is an issue for as far as looking them over before I buy. I had hands on experience with the CIJ because I bought that second hand. The others were brand new purchases which I had shipped, all from USA, to a certain country in the Middle East where I have been based - no local dealerships. However, I’ve had a other brands also shipped without having hands on experience (some of which cost much less than Fender money) and they have been just fine - with the exception of an Epiphone which needed a lot of luthier work on my behalf. Sure there must be good Fenders out there, evidently. Maybe I’m just unlucky. But when I add up the pennies I’ve spent on what has on some examples been absolute junk, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I want to love Fender, but I just wish they would sort out the QC issues (being a realist they are never going to come down in price). If other companies are capable of producing quality at a lesser cost, then why can’t Fender spend some of their astronomical profit, pay the folks who work in the factories a little more and be consistent in what they let out of the door?

 

[badinage]

I stand in defense of yuppy wives buying b-day presents for their husband.

 

[El Trueno]

Congrats on becoming 7ender-less OP! I totally understand where you're coming from. Thankfully, we live in a time when 7ender isn't the only manufacturer making FSOs. Their competition is blowing them out of the water in terms of quality, especially with what's coming out of Mexico!

I own 2 Rickenbackers and 2 7enders (1 of which is a Squier). My Squier is my first ever bass and I will never get rid of it. It's also my piccolo bass, which I sometimes treat more like a guitar than a bass. Plus, I have modded it to my specifications as its original parts stopped working over time. For example, I replaced the original VVT preamp with a volume-tone-pickup selector preamp.

My other 7ender is my American Pro II Precision Bass. It's behind my 2 Rics in the rotation because it's not as versatile tonally. I tried selling it, but I decided against it because I feel the need to have a P Bass in my inventory for tonal variety. I have also noticed how the bridge and the pole pieces aren't perfectly aligned and I find that annoying too! I had to move the strings over slightly on the bridge to align them with the pole pieces.

Care to share a picture of your 7ender-less bass inventory?

I will do that. I’ll take a family pic over the next couple of days as I’ve recently acquired a fine Sire Z3. Current inventory looks like this: