Double Bass I can't decide whether to use my ring finger or not.

[bassmanbrent]

I live in a very remote corner of the world. There isn't a bass teacher for at least 600 miles, probably farther than that.

Wow! Sounds like skype is the way to go. A good teacher can save you so much grief and potential injury at your stage of the game. Does anyone have any recommendations for Spanky? +1 for Chris Fitzgerald's videos. They are really great. I don't know the Discover Doublebass ones...

 

[lowfreqgeek]

In addition to those already mentioned, check out the How to Drive a Double Bass series by Michael Klinghoffer. Also, John Clayton has a cool tutorial series.

There are also full clinics by Rufus Reid, Ray Brown, Ron Carter, John Patitucci, Eddie Gomez, and many other fine players. Watch their technique and see how they approach the instrument physically. It's not all the same, but you'll see a lot of similarities. Be extremely cognizant of what they are doing and what you are doing differently, and how you can make adjustments.

I was recently on a quest to improve my intonation and started looking at my technique - everything from my posture to the height and angle of the bass and my left-hand shape and thumb position on the back of the neck, etc. I watched a ton of videos of different players with all of those things specifically in mind, and I made some adjustments to get everything physically lined up better. The end result is that the changes I made directly improved my intonation, tone, and fatigue. I'm more aware of all that now than I had been for a while, and I'm enjoying the clear results of that awareness.

 

[zontar]

If you have the fingers & can use them? why not...

 

[Jeshua]

Yea, I have been hitting yo

Yea, I have been hitting youtube. Do you have any favorites?

Also, you should check out John Clayton's 'Bass Tips' videos. VERY good stuff.

+1 to Chris Fitzgerald's vids, and the DDB stuff by Geoff Chalmers. Good luck.

 

[Les Fret]

I use the 3rd finger for HALFSTEPS in lower parts of the fingerboard in addition to 1, and when I don`t need to go a halfstep higher. Joel Quarrington, who for me is the wizard of db technique, recommends that for situation where you especially have to cross strings, it`s much more natural than 1-3.

.1-2-3 is the most natural way to go before neck heel, and you can add semitones in 1-3 and 2-4 before that for halftones,

Can you give some more detailed examples with notes (maybe one or two examples of each of the above quotes) of how Joel Quarrington is using that? Not for the OP but for me..
Thanks.

 

[damonsmith]

Once again, anyone who disagrees with you is an illiterate derelict with a "baseball bat left hand making a dull thud"....

Disagreeing with centuries of accepted bass pedagogy is not disagreeing with me, FYI.

Obviously, we can all just do "whatever" lots of guys like you do, you doing whatever is different than advising others to do whatever. Nobody needs permission or advice to just go their own way.

Wow! Sounds like skype is the way to go. A good teacher can save you so much grief and potential injury at your stage of the game.

Most teachers, myself included teach over Skype or Google hangouts and it works fine. I've learned a lot myself from both Chris' videos and Discover double bass, but neither is a substiute for lessons.
An experienced bass player watching you is important early on.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

If you have the fingers & can use them? why not...

This comment along with your profile pic are kind of ironic.

The name of the game is consistently hitting the exact spot on the fingerboard. There are conventional ways to do this that have been developed over several centuries. Given the distance between 1/2 steps on the double bass, the anatomy of the average human hand, and the strength of the pinky (which is far stronger than most people realize), it makes physical sense to limit the use of the 3rd finger in the lower positions so as to maintain consistency in intonation and to prevent damage to the left hand and arm.

There will be exceptions, but why buck 100s of years of convention that have been developed for the purpose of getting accurate results? There's no need for "parking lines" if you methodically learn how to find the notes through proper positioning.

 

[Jay Corwin]

I'm gonna try to throw some water on the dumpster fire starting to burn here.....

There are exceptions, and norms. Some guys can play with all 4 digits in positions that are normally taught to be played using only 1, 2, and 4. These guys would be exceptions. It's not that you can't do it, but given the amount of resources available for self educating, (which it sounds like the OP is planning) it would be a much more logical path to choose the norm. The norm would the old reliable 1-2-4 Simandl.

Even if you have no interest in classical per se, Simandl will get you methodically through fingering for common scales early in the game. If you have questions regarding something using this method, any number of users here can give you advice because it's the most common technique.

On the other hand if you choose to pursue a 1-2-3-4 approach, you'll have a limited knowledge base to draw from. It does not mean that you can't be successful with it. However, you would be an exception if you were to get proficient using this method.

 

[gerry grable]

I'm gonna try to throw some water on the dumpster fire starting to burn here.....

There are exceptions, and norms. Some guys can play with all 4 digits in positions that are normally taught to be played using only 1, 2, and 4. These guys would be exceptions. It's not that you can't do it, but given the amount of resources available for self educating, (which it sounds like the OP is planning) it would be a much more logical path to choose the norm. The norm would the old reliable 1-2-4 Simandl.

Even if you have no interest in classical per se, Simandl will get you methodically through fingering for common scales early in the game. If you have questions regarding something using this method, any number of users here can give you advice because it's the most common technique.

On the other hand if you choose to pursue a 1-2-3-4 approach, you'll have a limited knowledge base to draw from. It does not mean that you can't be successful with it. However, you would be an exception if you were to get proficient using this method.

I use the traditional Simandl and my life long concerns have always been the smooth and in tune transitions in the problem area of the fingerboard. When to shift in the higher positions between 1-2-4 and 1-2-3 and T-1-2-3 and back.

 

[Reiska]

Can you give some more detailed examples with notes (maybe one or two examples of each of the above quotes) of how Joel Quarrington is using that? Not for the OP but for me..
Thanks.

Sorry dude, I don`t feel competent to describe anything Joel Quarrington does in his magic. However, I got the idea from his writings and books " Daily Exercises ", and use the 3rd finger nowadays mostly when playing intervals like 10ths between the E and G string, and on single string in riff-based situations where I have to stay in half position for a long perioid of time. 3rd finger is strong and it saves energy when you don`t have to span your hand, my 1st, 2nd and 3rd fingers are app. same lenght and it helps me to relax my arm and wrist when using the 3rd finger. Vibrato feels also much more natural with 3rd than 4rth finger.

I highly recommend the J.Q book Daily Exercises, he has these for both 5ths and 4ths tunings. You can find them on his home page.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

My dad was a classically trained symphony bassist who also played jazz gigs. He said the third finger is to support the fourth.

 

[bassmanbrent]

I've learned a lot myself from both Chris' videos and Discover double bass, but neither is a substiute for lessons.
An experienced bass player watching you is important early on.

My point exactly.

 

[Reiska]

If you play 1-2-3-4 in the lower positions of a normal adult size double bass, you will injure yourself eventually.

I don`t mean to insult in any way, but still, how many examples of injured bassists because of playing 1-2-3-4 in lower positions we actually have?

My very wild quess goes more to the direction that the Simandl technique is the very reason why bassists get injured. I don`t mean 1-2-4 or 1-3-4 or 1-2-3-4 comparison, but the fact that Simandl didn`t understand s**t about modern physiology. The whole concept is based on beeing strained when trying to execute notes on a very, if not the most, physically demanding and challenging instrument existing. Talking 2016 it makes very much sense that relaxation is the key, not the machine-like approach of Simandl method. Don`t get me wrong, I play mostly simandl type fingerings and find it very effective. I just go into it with relaxation as my imperative.

 

[damonsmith]

I am less concerned with injury than what works. We have VERY few examples of it actually working, and even fewer significant bassists in the public eye making 1234 work.
What great soloists do is important to check out but not always solid advice for working bassists.
Doing 1234 out of the gate for a dumb reason (habit from guitar) is not recommendable.
The cases where a beginner should even be considering it are so rare that the discussion of it is unhelpful.

If the OP were an advanced player diving into what Quarrington or any of the New Dutch/New American school were doing the discussion would make sense.
All those muddying the waters with exceptions to the rule are like the Family Guy cut away with Peter Griffin made a list of hats.

I don`t mean to insult in any way, but still, how many examples of injured bassists because of playing 1-2-3-4 in lower positions we actually have?

My very wild quess goes more to the direction that the Simandl technique is the very reason why bassists get injured. I don`t mean 1-2-4 or 1-3-4 or 1-2-3-4 comparison, but the fact that Simandl didn`t understand s**t about modern physiology. The whole concept is based on beeing strained when trying to execute notes on a very, if not the most, physically demanding and challenging instrument existing. Talking 2016 it makes very much sense that relaxation is the key, not the machine-like approach of Simandl method. Don`t get me wrong, I play mostly simandl type fingerings and find it very effective. I just go into it with relaxation as my imperative.

 

[Reiska]

I hear you @damonsmith. Still, if it obviously makes sense to use the f^******n finger, then why not, without experts from anybody? Because developement in db playing technique is bad somehow? Obviously, Simandl method works. Every other method, and no method at all, works too. Again, this is a internet forum where the op is asking about the use of 3rd finger. And I try to explain how I use it, and where I got the idea from. Every human beeing starting on the bass ain`t a moron either, or do you think they are?

 

[damonsmith]

I think we all have bad/idiosyncratic habits, and they are best to not pass on and for each of us to come to on our own.
Every time this comes up a bunch of people like you use it as forum to list all of their bad habits.

 

[SAlcott]

I don`t mean to insult in any way, but still, how many examples of injured bassists because of playing 1-2-3-4 in lower positions we actually have?

My very wild quess goes more to the direction that the Simandl technique is the very reason why bassists get injured. I don`t mean 1-2-4 or 1-3-4 or 1-2-3-4 comparison, but the fact that Simandl didn`t understand s**t about modern physiology. The whole concept is based on beeing strained when trying to execute notes on a very, if not the most, physically demanding and challenging instrument existing. Talking 2016 it makes very much sense that relaxation is the key, not the machine-like approach of Simandl method. Don`t get me wrong, I play mostly simandl type fingerings and find it very effective. I just go into it with relaxation as my imperative.

Trying to stretch a normal sized adult hand to cover a minor third in the lower positions on a (standard) 40+" measure is (IMO) asking for eventual injury. On my bass in half position it's about 7 1/2 ". I don't think it's possible for a normal size human to be relaxed while doing this. It's feasible (IMO again) to use 1-2-3-4 starting around 1st finger D on the G string for tricky passages. It's up to the individual, of course. I'm speaking only from my 45+years playing time.

 

[Reiska]

I think we all have bad/idiosyncratic habits, and they are best to not pass on and for each of us to come to on our own.
Every time this comes up a bunch of people like you use it as forum to list all of their bad habits.

Playing something relaxed and in tune on a db = bad habit?

 

[damonsmith]

Playing something relaxed and in tune on a db = bad habit?

You have provided no evidence of that. One person doing an unorthodox technique is not reasonable advice for a beginner.
It is also the kind of decision that should be reached after traditional study, not before.

 

[Reiska]

Trying to stretch a normal sized adult hand to cover a minor third in the lower positions on a (standard) 40+" measure is (IMO) asking for eventual injury. On my bass , a minor third in half position is about 7 1/2 ". I don't think it's possible for a normal size human to be relaxed while doing this. It's feasible (IMO again) to use 1-2-3-4 starting around 1st finger D on the G string for tricky passages. It's up to the individual, of course. I'm speaking only from my 45+years playing time.

I`m not competiting on your history on db, as I`m younger than 45 years. Anyway, if you execute your stuff on the istrument I`m very happy for you, like I said I don`t mean to insult you in any way. The only 1-2-3-4 method on db I have bumped into is Tomoya Aomori`s method for short string lenght fifths tuned bass, and it shurely is pretty effective with his hands and on his bass. Joel Quarringtons take on this is very different, his approach is a imperative of relaxation. Why not buy yourself a Quarrington book?

Four finger methods for db seems to be based on rolling the hand, not keeping it fixed in a position. I find this very useful in 1-2-4 too, and occassional 1-3 for halsteps. I`m not a virtuoso of any kind, but I have a pretty tough setup on my bass, and am still alive after playing it quite a bit recently.