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Double Bass I can't decide whether to use my ring finger or not.

#42
damonsmith said:
You have provided no evidence of that. One person doing an unorthodox technique is not reasonable advice for a beginner.
It is also the kind of decision that should be reached after traditional study, not before.
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The place we don`t agree is that what a beginner is. I think that no player should overlook what his body is trying to tell him, pain is never constructive. A great teacher knows all the ways to outcome the physical difficulties, different methods, and can inforce the ideas of a student when they are relevant, and reason all of it. You don`t reason, you stick simandl-dogma down everybodys throat with no reasoning to the subject. Do you know how to use your 3rd finger in lower positions to relax your hand and play in tune?
 
#43
damonsmith said:
You have provided no evidence of that. One person doing an unorthodox technique is not reasonable advice for a beginner.
It is also the kind of decision that should be reached after traditional study, not before.
Click to expand...

Like you have to hurt yourself with a bad teacher, and listen to your body afterwards? BS. I`ve had a bunch of great teachers and some really bad ones. The kind of teachers that makes people traumatic and never play again, or gain any joy from playing a instrument.

Finland is propably a different animal comparing to U.S, our tradition comes from russia and germany.
 
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#44
I went through the Billie book using 134, so I can use it and have in certain contexts. I studied a few different methods.
The reasoning for advocating the most proven method is that is the most likely method he will run into. A great teacher can get most adults playing with total comfort with the Simandl positions. More advanced ideas should come later.
I have normal hands and have no pain and am completely relaxed with 124 in the half position.
You have some weird idea to excuse yourself from traditional technique and you are looking for validation in this thread and it is the wrong place for it.
 
#45
No, I don`t think so Damon, and I think that we are talking about different subjects. And possibly different setups on our basses too. I`m not refering to any method, only the ones I have found practical making music. I too have normal hands and play 1-2-4 mostly, 1-2-3-4 on the neck heel. Not as relaxed but otherwise better.

In my ears, 4ths tuning in itself is a proven method to play the db out of tune, you can check the YT for that, no simandl fingering will overcome that. And that`s if your listening the music with intonation as your musical imperative.

I don`t know about weird ideas but the ones I have experienced to be effective for my body shape on the db.
 
#47
Unless I am greatly mistaken, Reiska is not arguing about 1-2-4 at all and admits that he uses it most of the time below the neck heel; this would place his statements in line with hundreds of years of bass pedagogy. Unless I am reading his posts wrong, he is stating that he is in favor of the relaxed "free hand" technique while using 1-2-4, and holding the opinion that this is a healthier way to approach the left hand of the instrument than the "fixed/spread hand" that is often traditionally taught. If this is the case, then I'm not sure what the fuss is about.
 
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#48
This is the place to discuss the use of 3rd finger on a double bass, and still I`m saying that it has it`s spots, but not in a fixed 1-2-3-4 way one plays guitar with. 1-2-4 makes much more sense because of the great mensure and physical challenge. And because of that challenge it makes more sense to use your 3rd finger at times, than span your 1st and 2nd fingers, or use the 2nd and 4rth finger. What`s the great problem with this?
 
#50
You can use any finger anytime you want, of course. Two really fine and very different jazz players who I've seen use non Simandl fingerings are J Dyani and R McClure. Heck, I've seen Ratzo Harris use his chin lots of times. This post is about a beginner, though, who will hopefully be playing for decades, and I believe, though you can get away with stuff while you're young, using conventional fingerings with a relaxed hand, as opposed to stiffly holding the fingers in a claw like a typest over a keyboard, is the key to staying healthy.
 
#54
Most of the people we look up to today as the established norms were at one point in time, rebels, renegades, and people who were bucking the established traditions even though they eventually became the norms. Rather than barking out only a dogmatic approach, most here are in agreement that in certain areas of the neck that a traditional approach often works well. The incorporation of other techniques makes you a more adaptable and versatile player over the long haul and helps when needed. Have you ever had an important gig scheduled and broke one of your fingers or your bass or strings or any of 1000 of life's interjections that necessitate you be flexible and adaptable? I played a gig once with a broken finger on both my left and right hand and was able to work my way through the gig just fine, and not a single person called the Simandl police. Rigid and uptight and dogmatic are not great qualities of you want to have a long career playing the bass with other people...
 
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#55
Any finger on any note on any time. What I trie to do is keep the unit of 1-2-4 going whereever it need`s to be.

One thing about 3rd addition to 4rth, is that is a different sound when palyed 4rth only. The 3rd finger support makes notes growly on the lowest string, and I don`t want to do that everytime.
 
#56
james condino said:
Have you ever had an important gig scheduled and broke one of your fingers or your bass or strings or any of 1000 of life's interjections that necessitate you be flexible and adaptable?
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Yes! I had the extensor tendon on my left hand middle finger pop out of place right where it passes over the large joint at the top of the hand. My sister in law, an ER doc, nudged it back into the correct groove and told me to splint it for a month. I played all my gigs that month using 1-3-4 and flipping the audience the bird the whole time. :D By the end, I wasn't even playing that out of tune with 3, although I sure was good to get that finger back.
 
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#57
I hurt my middle finger also, did the Billie and used that fingering for a couple weeks.
This isn't the place for these anecdotes.
Also, using an unconventional left hand to awkwardly get around the instrument is not rebelious, FYI.
Again, a bunch of people want their individual stories validated every tine a noob asks for advice.
Yes, you are a beautiful snowflake, no, bad habits from guitar are not helpful.

Let people find their own bad habits.
 

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