That isn't your decision to make. Everyone else may carry on. Damon has made his point often enough already. I will also bow out unless asked a direct question or needed in a moderator role.
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Double Bass I can't decide whether to use my ring finger or not.
- Thread starter Spanky123
- Start date
That isn't your decision to make. Everyone else may carry on. Damon has made his point often enough already. I will also bow out unless asked a direct question or needed in a moderator role.
I've looked at Aomori's material, and it's interesting and impressive. Keep in mind that he uses a 38 or 39" measure instrument for 5th tuning and 1-2-3-4 LH technique. In his videos on the Kolstein site demonstrating basses from the inventory, he plays standard 1-2-4. Regarding age, things we can pull off in our younger days often come back to bother us later.
I'll second that Damon and Salcott are giving the correct beginner advice, especially for aspiring jazz and pop double bassists.
Just to stir up the conversation a bit. I am listening to Charlie Haden a lot these days and noticed that he is avoiding his pinky in the low positions altogether and is using his third finger a lot. I wouldn't recommend that to a beginner (or anyone) but it is nice to see that some famous players are not walking by the rules. I guess you are allowed if you have the musical genius of Mr. Haden. (Just look at the solo from 27:50)
Without trying to derail this more than it already has, there are plenty of examples of that technique failing him, especially in later years after he made his name in the Ornette quartet. It works beautifully for him in slow to mid-tempo pieces, especially in D, it does not serve him well at higher tempos.
Banking on making your name so you can "get away" with unorthodox playing is no method or as you said, good advice for a beginner.
I am a fan of unorthodox techniques, but, only in service of unorthodox sound, the sideways bow in my avatar, for example.
When you're playing in 6th position and up; knock yourself out. Otherwise; no.
If you are hurting between 1 and 2, think about hand placement (not straight enoug, too much of an angle, hand not round enough,...)
If you really want 1-2-3-4 fingerings, switch to cello.
As a beginner: learn to walk before you can run (no pun).
If you are hurting between 1 and 2, think about hand placement (not straight enoug, too much of an angle, hand not round enough,...)
If you really want 1-2-3-4 fingerings, switch to cello.
As a beginner: learn to walk before you can run (no pun).
I've been playing for more than 35 years, brought up as a Simandl sheep. Here's my "old guy" recommendation:
1. Learn and ingrain the traditional 1-2-4 fingering system for lower positions; it's the least physically stressful way to span one whole step with your hand.
2. Use the 3rd finger as an exception to help you in difficult situations. For example, I have used 3rd finger in the last movement of Mozart 35 to pick off notes in passages that would require using 4th finger on successive notes while crossing two strings at fast tempo. Deploying 3rd finger in that circumstance is like having an extra arrow in your quiver.
3. In those awkward passages that "hover" back and fourth around the neck joint, I (and probably most players) often elect to use a pivot technique to reach minor or major thirds. Third finger is handy there, too.
4. When I was a student in Stuart Sankey's master classes, he would encourage exploration of thumb position technique below the neck joint to solve some difficult orchestral passages. Third finger works well in those circumstances, of course.
Etc., etc., etc... the upshot is, I'd strongly recommend regular use of the conventional lower position 1-2-4 technique to comfortably span a whole step and build strength and dexterity in your 4th finger, but 3rd finger can come in handy in all sorts of ways to help you solve tricky problems. How and when you choose to deploy it will become part of your well-informed, personal style of problem solving on the instrument.
Cheers!
(P.S. Sorry...I just remembered that this thread was in the context of jazz playing, and I'm mostly talking about orchestra passages. Still applicable stuff, just slightly out of context.)
1. Learn and ingrain the traditional 1-2-4 fingering system for lower positions; it's the least physically stressful way to span one whole step with your hand.
2. Use the 3rd finger as an exception to help you in difficult situations. For example, I have used 3rd finger in the last movement of Mozart 35 to pick off notes in passages that would require using 4th finger on successive notes while crossing two strings at fast tempo. Deploying 3rd finger in that circumstance is like having an extra arrow in your quiver.
3. In those awkward passages that "hover" back and fourth around the neck joint, I (and probably most players) often elect to use a pivot technique to reach minor or major thirds. Third finger is handy there, too.
4. When I was a student in Stuart Sankey's master classes, he would encourage exploration of thumb position technique below the neck joint to solve some difficult orchestral passages. Third finger works well in those circumstances, of course.
Etc., etc., etc... the upshot is, I'd strongly recommend regular use of the conventional lower position 1-2-4 technique to comfortably span a whole step and build strength and dexterity in your 4th finger, but 3rd finger can come in handy in all sorts of ways to help you solve tricky problems. How and when you choose to deploy it will become part of your well-informed, personal style of problem solving on the instrument.
Cheers!
(P.S. Sorry...I just remembered that this thread was in the context of jazz playing, and I'm mostly talking about orchestra passages. Still applicable stuff, just slightly out of context.)
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Hey Damon, I am not doubting you, but really would like to hear a specific example of this. I know everyone's human, but I can't remember hearing CH play anything that I thought failed musically or technically. Can you point out a specific recording to check out? Thanks!
I should add that I haven't heard CH's entire catalogue. He played on a lot of records! Also, I'm not an advocate of using the third finger in lower positions
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Missouri Sky is pretty rough, all the Jarrett trio are amazing but on the quartet albums he always seems to hold the band back from really getting there. I've tried a ton of times to listen and it just doesn't get going to my ears. Law Years is great example,
This is not the place for it, but just listen closer to the later work.
Hey Damon, I am not doubting you, but really would like to hear a specific example of this. I know everyone's human, but I can't remember hearing CH play anything that I thought failed musically or technically. Can you point out a specific recording to check out? Thanks!
I should add that I haven't heard CH's entire catalogue. He played on a lot of records! Also, I'm not an advocate of using the third finger in lower positions
This is not the place for it, but just listen closer to the later work.
I do use my ring finger, but it's more in the Joel Quarrington fashion of using 1-3 or 2-4 for half steps and 1-2-4 for chromatic stuff. I find that especially in the lower register my intonation is better and my hand is more relaxed, the latter allowing me to use more arm weight and not strain my hand.
Agreed. I use it for dominant 7 chord triple stops, also. Neither of these anecdotes are useful to a beginner.
To further clarify my position: a beginner not located in Italy and coming from guitar should do a full purge of the ring finger before bringing it back in any of the legit ways listed.
Said person should come to JQ's work on their own before using any of his ideas relayed second and third hand on the internet.
The ring finger should first come in to play in the neck position and thumb positions at the teacher's discretion. Following that, there are other uses as listed throughout the thread.
That is professional advice. Anyone who wants to just do whatever or has an unorthodox idea that works for them needs no permission or advice.
