I can't play punk anymore

[MDBass]

There's this new band called NOFX I've heard about.

A fella they call Large Michael sings and plays bass for them, right?

 

[Michael Schreiber]

Big Pistols fan here, so chiming in only for the chance to argue about matters old testament.... But to rebut your point, I'd say that if John Lydon were more interested in musicianship than shenanigans/power tripping, he would NEVER have allowed bassist/composer Matlock's ouster and replacement by his own crony Sid Vicious, let alone spearheaded the firing as he did.
The only acceptable recordings from the Sex Pistols US tour are those where the bass was unplugged. Sid simply sucked as a bassist.

You're right, that is why they never recorded with Sid, and still had Glen Matlock recording the bass.
John Lydon said, that live it wouldn't matter what the bass played, since no one heard it
Yet, he felt disgusted by the way Sid was putting up a show - like those he (John) didn't like, the wanna-be-cool rockers of that time; standing legs wide apart, trying to look cool for everyone. That's what I recall from his biography: No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs.
He also felt disgusted by the way, Glen Matlock was trying to make fancy, mainstream "rock" songs; so, John Lydon just wasn't too lucky with his fellow band mates on the bass

 

[40Hz]

 

[Son of Wobble]

You're right, that is why they never recorded with Sid, and still had Glen Matlock recording the bass.
John Lydon said, that live it wouldn't matter what the bass played, since no one heard it
Yet, he felt disgusted by the way Sid was putting up a show - like those he (John) didn't like, the wanna-be-cool rockers of that time; standing legs wide apart, trying to look cool for everyone. That's what I recall from his biography: No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs.
He also felt disgusted by the way, Glen Matlock was trying to make fancy, mainstream "rock" songs; so, John Lydon just wasn't too lucky with his fellow band mates on the bass

Steve Jones played the bass on the studio masters for the album Never Mind The Bullocks.

Matlock DOES play bass on some of the alternate master recordings, which were preferred by manager Malcolm McClaren,
who released them as the bootleg album entitled SPUNK, which some purists consider the REAL Pistols album.

I am sure you are right that Lydon came to regret getting Sid embroiled in the Pistols, he probably feels a certain degree of guilt still for Sid's quite slide and demise. But Lydon was definitely a power-tripper to throw out Matlock, who co-wrote the songs. Lydon made the very same mistake in his next band, PIL, when he tossed out bassist Jah Wobble. That was the end of the golden age for that band, too.

In short, Lydon did not have enough respect for bass players.

 

[jwilson67]

Steve Jones played the bass on the studio masters for the album Never Mind The Bullocks.

Matlock DOES play bass on some of the alternate master recordings, which were preferred by manager Malcolm McClaren,
who released them as the bootleg album entitled SPUNK, which some purists consider the REAL Pistols album.

I am sure you are right that Lydon came to regret getting Sid embroiled in the Pistols, he probably feels a certain degree of guilt still for Sid's quite slide and demise. But Lydon was definitely a power-tripper to throw out Matlock, who co-wrote the songs. Lydon made the very same mistake in his next band, PIL, when he tossed out bassist Jah Wobble. That was the end of the golden age for that band, too.

In short, Lydon did not have enough respect for bass players.

The really funny thing about the Pistols is that for all the supposed railing they did against the "dinosaur rock" system they themselves were basically a corporate band created to make a statement against corporate bands.

BTW - my wife LOVES all the old PIL stuff.

 

[Michael Schreiber]

Steve Jones played the bass on the studio masters for the album Never Mind The Bullocks.

Nope, my booklet says: Glen Matlock on all tracks, except "Holidays in the Sun" and "Bodies" - however, as far as I recall, they just put Sids name there, since he was supposed to replace Glen Matlock, yet, in the studio Matlock would have played the bass, because Sid wasn't able to.

John didn't disrespect them as bass players; he didn't respected Matlock as co-writer of the songs. Matlock wanted to make mainstream rock, John didn't want to. Clash of opposite goals in mind

Also, John always complemented Glen's skills on the bass. So, as a player he respected him quite highly.
And as for Sid, he was his best friend at that time, which was simply more important to him as a human than as a musician. He also felt like Sid was his only ally, again, as a human, since Malcom (the producer) tried to displace John from the rest; booked separate hotels for him and the rest of the band, and stuff. That's a different story, I just wanted to mention that he never disrespected Matlock's playing, and why he didn't bother having Sid on the bass.

 

[Michael Schreiber]

The really funny thing about the Pistols is that for all the supposed railing they did against the "dinosaur rock" system they themselves were basically a corporate band created to make a statement against corporate bands.

BTW - my wife LOVES all the old PIL stuff.

I agree
The producer, drummer, guitarist, and bassist (even Sid!) just wanted to be acknowledged as musicians, earn money - and in case of Sid, it's said that he wanted to become a star; like being pictured in the Vogue magazine ^^
The only one who cared about the meaning, and expressing something through the songs might have been John Lydon.

 

[Freez]

I can't play drunk anymore... we all have our limitations!

 

[Son of Wobble]

Nope, my booklet says: Glen Matlock on all tracks, except "Holidays in the Sun" and "Bodies" - however, as far as I recall, they just put Sids name there, since he was supposed to replace Glen Matlock, yet, in the studio Matlock would have played the bass, because Sid wasn't able to.

Which booklet do you quote? This is from Wikki for "never mind the bollocks" (highlighted emphasis mine):

Recording[edit]
Close to completing a deal with A&M Records, in March 1977 the Sex Pistols entered Wessex Sound Studios to record with producer Invalid Link Removed and engineer Bill Price. New bassist Sid Vicious played on the track "Bodies",[1] but his performing skills were not considered fit enough to record the full album, so the band asked manager Malcolm McLaren to convince previous bassist Glen Matlock to perform the instrument for the sessions.[2] Matlock agreed on the condition that he was paid beforehand. When payment was not received, he declined to show up. As a result, Thomas asked guitarist Steve Jones to play bass so work could begin on the basic tracks. Jones' playing was so satisfactory that Thomas had him play the bass tracks for all the remaining songs recorded during the sessions.[3] Four tracks—-Clinton Heylin suspected they were "God Save the Queen" (Thomas stated he and Price "gave up" trying to use Vicious' bass track[1]), "Pretty Vacant", "EMI" and possibly "Did You No Wrong"—were recorded during the two days at Wessex, with "God Save the Queen" and "Pretty Vacant" receiving vocal tracking from Johnny Rotten and final mixing during the period. As a result of these sessions, Thomas and Price began work in earnest on what would become the Sex Pistols' full-length album.[4] Four days after recording was completed, the Sex Pistols signed with A&M, yet on 16 March the label terminated the contract, and several thousand pressed copies of the forthcoming "God Save the Queen" single were destroyed.[5]

 

[non]

@dnp41 - The entire point of real punk is the absence of technique and almost a sort of pride in that fact. Punk has more to do with attitude and lifestyle than musical ability. If you are talking about fast 8th or 16th note type straight, pounding lines I'm quite sure you could do it again but you'd have to put yourself back in the frame of mind.

Real punk was guys (and girls) who took this frame of mind that knowing how to play your instrument proficiently wasn't Rock & Roll and all the bands that did were dinosaurs and pretentious. Of course now, we all know that was idiotic.

i got into punk in 1980. i graduated high school in 1985. i was heavily into the scene mohawk and all. there was a lot of good punk musicians that knew how to play there instruments well.
i never thought "The entire point of real punk is the absence of technique". i don't think anyone who was into punk thought that. it drives me crazy when i hear this. it sounded f**kin awesome to us. it was about expressing yourself through music. political or otherwise. we just didn't let the fact that we could not play as good as zeppelin stop us from playing. it sounded good to us screw the rest. and the whole diy aspect.
joey ramone never liked the word punk. he said the ramones where rock and roll in the vein of buddy holiday. simple and straight forward.
i am happy to say at 50 years old i still have all my punk albums from back then.

 

[Michael Schreiber]

Which booklet do you quote? This is from Wikki for "never mind the bollocks" (highlighted emphasis mine):

Recording[edit]
Close to completing a deal with A&M Records, in March 1977 the Sex Pistols entered Wessex Sound Studios to record with producer Invalid Link Removed and engineer Bill Price. New bassist Sid Vicious played on the track "Bodies",[1] but his performing skills were not considered fit enough to record the full album, so the band asked manager Malcolm McLaren to convince previous bassist Glen Matlock to perform the instrument for the sessions.[2] Matlock agreed on the condition that he was paid beforehand. When payment was not received, he declined to show up. As a result, Thomas asked guitarist Steve Jones to play bass so work could begin on the basic tracks. Jones' playing was so satisfactory that Thomas had him play the bass tracks for all the remaining songs recorded during the sessions.[3] Four tracks—-Clinton Heylin suspected they were "God Save the Queen" (Thomas stated he and Price "gave up" trying to use Vicious' bass track[1]), "Pretty Vacant", "EMI" and possibly "Did You No Wrong"—were recorded during the two days at Wessex, with "God Save the Queen" and "Pretty Vacant" receiving vocal tracking from Johnny Rotten and final mixing during the period. As a result of these sessions, Thomas and Price began work in earnest on what would become the Sex Pistols' full-length album.[4] Four days after recording was completed, the Sex Pistols signed with A&M, yet on 16 March the label terminated the contract, and several thousand pressed copies of the forthcoming "God Save the Queen" single were destroyed.[5]

Weird!!!

The booklet I have is looking like this one:
Invalid Link Removed

I've looked at the alternative takes from Wessex, and they also note Glen Matlkock as bass player - however, they mention Steve Jones on bass for "Holidays in the Sun" - in contrast to the booklet of the "regular" takes:

Invalid Link Removed

Maybe this is a good field for historians and archeologists to dig and find "the truth"
Yet, the story on wikipedia sounds not untypical - not being paid, so not showing up sounds very realistic, too; might have happened that way ^^

 

[Son of Wobble]

Weird!!!

The booklet I have is looking like this one:
Invalid Link Removed

I've looked at the alternative takes from Wessex, and they also note Glen Matlkock as bass player - however, they mention Steve Jones on bass for "Holidays in the Sun" - in contrast to the booklet of the "regular" takes:

Invalid Link Removed

Maybe this is a good field for historians and archeologists to dig and find "the truth"
Yet, the story on wikipedia sounds not untypical - not being paid, so not showing up sounds very realistic, too; might have happened that way ^^

Yeah, I certainly don't claim to be a Pistols scholar, so you never really know the story. Even producers are often not credible sources about recordings -- an example is Paul Rothchild, who claimed to have made "literally thousands" of edits on the Doors' Absolutely Live album, a claim refuted by fan scholarship years later when the source tapes had all been unearthed. Producers overstate their own influence, and also suffer memory lapses. As for me, I wasn't there for any of it.
But I would bet my life that Sid did NOT play even a single note on the studio version of "Bodies," the one track his is alleged to appear on. There is no WAY he played that part, and if he did, it was rerecorded by Steve Jones the minute Sid was whisked from the studio (this is reportedly how Mick Jones used to "fix" Paul Simonon's parts in the studio -- by getting him out of there).

 

[Michael Schreiber]

But I would bet my life that Sid did NOT play even a single note on the studio version of "Bodies," the one track his is alleged to appear on. There is no WAY he played that part, and if he did, it was rerecorded by Steve Jones the minute Sid was whisked from the studio (this is reportedly how Mick Jones used to "fix" Paul Simonon's parts in the studio -- by getting him out of there).

I agree
I heard many bands did just mention all members to be "fair" and not cause bad blood or something.
Also heard of scary tales, such as you mentioned, where someone's ego got carried away when it came to credits...
As for Sid having played the bass in the studio on these recordings, I'd even refuse to trust a video replay as evidence
He surely might have been kind of cool on live gigs, but looking cool doesn't help in the studio ^^
I'm sure either Steve Jones or Glen Matlock have played bass on these songs, too, and they mentioned Sid in the credits to be fair towards him, not putting him in a bad light. All band drama aside, it appeared their egos weren't that twisted, and according to them, they always mentioned all (current) band members in the copyrights and to the collecting companies.

Now, @dnp41 sorry for the off-topic. Hope you're not sick of hearing and reading about the Pistols ^^
Did you try playing some of their songs, or are they not your cup of tea?
I find them nice to practice; not the usual 8th or 16th bass lines, but quite molodic, IMHO. Well, except for "Roadrunner"...

 

[BooshBass]

i got into punk in 1980. i graduated high school in 1985. i was heavily into the scene mohawk and all. there was a lot of good punk musicians that knew how to play there instruments well.
i never thought "The entire point of real punk is the absence of technique". i don't think anyone who was into punk thought that. it drives me crazy when i hear this. it sounded f**kin awesome to us. it was about expressing yourself through music. political or otherwise. we just didn't let the fact that we could not play as good as zeppelin stop us from playing. it sounded good to us screw the rest. and the whole diy aspect.
joey ramone never liked the word punk. he said the ramones where rock and roll in the vein of buddy holiday. simple and straight forward.
i am happy to say at 50 years old i still have all my punk albums from back then.

This makes me happy.

I'm now 30 and was in a punk band in high school but none of us were considered punks. We all listening to different music ranging from notorious b.i.g. to guns n roses to phish to pantera, but, believe it or not, we all also loved punk and still do. I'll never forget going to play at the local punk show in some girl's basement with all the "real punks" (when I say "real punks", I'm referring to people who called themselves that but listened to like blink-182 or whatever, remember this is probably 2002), reeking like pot and with my buddy wearing a white backwards nike visor. Needless to say, we were not welcome. Well, we f*cking destroyed all the "real punks" at being punk by coming into their show, telling them all to f*ck themselves, and hammering oldschool punk riffs right into their skulls until they sh*t themselves with disbelief and went home to cry into their new found glory sheets. We didn't care what they thought about how we looked or who we hung out with or how good of skaters we were, we just wanted to play punk music, and I thought and still think that was pretty punk.

 

[Son of Wobble]

Michael, to prove there are no hard feelings between myself and Sid: this photo hangs on my wall.
I bought it framed from the photographer for $5 in Hollywood circa 1980 at the Tower Records Swap Meet.

Thought you'd appreciate the SVT head in the background!

 

[Michael Schreiber]

Michael, to prove there are no hard feelings between myself and Sid: this photo hangs on my wall.
I bought it framed from the photographer for $5 in Hollywood circa 1980 at the Tower Records Swap Meet.

Thought you'd appreciate the SVT head in the background!


View attachment 2766263

Awesome!
Of course I do Thank you - very cool!

 

[40Hz]

I can't play drunk anymore... we all have our limitations!

I hear you! I can't play half of what I used to whether I'm drunk or sober...

 

[murphy]

Weird!!!

The booklet I have is looking like this one:
Invalid Link Removed

I've looked at the alternative takes from Wessex, and they also note Glen Matlkock as bass player - however, they mention Steve Jones on bass for "Holidays in the Sun" - in contrast to the booklet of the "regular" takes:

Invalid Link Removed

Maybe this is a good field for historians and archeologists to dig and find "the truth"
Yet, the story on wikipedia sounds not untypical - not being paid, so not showing up sounds very realistic, too; might have happened that way ^^

If you watch the DVD Classic albums Never Mind the Bollocks, recording ,the engineer talks of how Steve played all the bass..."Panzer Division"(Chris Thomas says)..even though he tried to include one track with Sid.

I was blown away by how tight the band was and great Matlock played in the reunion tour in the 90s ....as I missed them the first time round...I was a bit too young

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

In recognition of your new coinage. Moving forward, I definitely will be urging TB posters to act more "bassmanlike" when getting too snarky.

View attachment 2766115

Allow me to be the first, since the official coinage of the term to put "unbassmanlike" into practice.
AT MY AGE, MOST OF YOU ARE ALL NOTHIN' BUT A BUNCH OF PUNKS ANYWAY!

 

[WardEarth]

I can't read past the first page of this thread. So much misconstrued info on what ppl think punk is. Punk haters, bigots, fascists!!
And great punk is not easy to play you fools.