Double Bass I couldn't tell a $30 bow from a $3000 bow

[Tom Lane]

I started with a typical $300 student bow. After a lot of struggle to get to the point where I felt like I could get something like a consistently pleasing sound, I dropped by my luthier's to check out more expensive bows. I kept going up in price - $400, $600, $900, $1,200 - until I couldn't tell the difference and my playing wasn't any better. I bought the $1,200 bow because I couldn't play any better with $1,500 bow. Bowing is wondrous for your intonation. Every tiny wart appears in Technicolor with a bow.

 

[punkjazzben]

There are many things to consider when judging the quality of a bow, and the price tag is not one of them. Price does not always equal quality. So don't make this assumption, because soon enough you'll be blaming your poor playing on inexpensive equipment.

On the other hand, price is always an important factor when purchasing a bow.

The most important questions are a) does this bow suit my needs? And b) does the price of this bow suit my budget?

As an aside, if you took two $3000 bows and put a $30 price tag on one, I wonder how many people would claim there was $2970 worth of difference in quality (not that that concept makes sense, anyway). If some of the posts above are anything to judge by, then a few people would quickly make that claim...

 

[togril]

I had a "free" bow (about $30) with a bass I bought 4 years ago, and I kept it.
Currently I use an Ary, around $750, I am a music student and this is a significant bow for me.

Recently I had to send the Ary off for a rehair - due to my location, and postage time, this meant I played my cheap $30 bow for around 14 days, about 4 hours a day.
I also had to give an exam recital with it.

I had to get this cheap, heavy, un- resonant, inflexible bow, with old white "probably" hair to sound as good as I could! (my teacher wouldn't have a bar of "but this is a CHEAP bow"!)

When my Ary arived back the difference was INCREDIBLE......but in ME. My arco had become smoother, with a much more defined and focused sound. My articulation, emotion and dynamic range were vastly improved.....14 days.

So now I often crack out my trusty cheap bow and do some open string practice. Because if I can nail a technique with that one, it sounds quite beautiful on the Ary.

 

[Eric Swanson]

...if I were blindfolded. Could you?

I rarely play arco; when I do, its usually to sustain the last note of a jazz ballad or whatever. So I'm not very knowledgeable about the virtues of a fine bow. A bass buddy of mine just dropped $2k on a bow. I question his judgement, but dont dare to mention it (It may reveal some ignorance on my part).

For me, "revealing some ignorance" is a key part of learning; it is not something to be avoided, but an opportunity to grow.

I would guess that if one took a chance and asked somebody who played well enough to need a $2K stick about their bows' virtues, one might get some new perspective.

For me, part of the compelling magic of the ongoing musical journey is the endless learning that can happen, if we are open, humble, and willing.

 

[SVT4001]

For me, "revealing some ignorance" is a key part of learning; it is not something to be avoided, but an opportunity to grow.

For me, part of the compelling magic of the ongoing musical journey is the endless learning that can happen, if we are open, humble, and willing.

Bravo!

 

[aqsw]

Being that this type of question have been asked over and over, and I have asked this question in the past as well I'll tell you about my personal impressions. My comparisons are based on a price difference ranging from about $50 to $1200. But most importantly these are comparisons between bows that I like and the ones that i wasn't so crazy about. The ones I have liked the most were between the $200 to $600 price range. (BTW I play both french and german)

1- balance. to me this is how the bow feels in my hand. I tend to prefer bows that are light at the tip. it has been harder for me to find one that sounds great though. In general I have found that the ones that are heavy at the tip tend to sound better on my bass, but they feel unfriendly to me.

2- evenness. I play open strings very slowly and try to notice how the bow behaves on the upstroke and downstroke. This tells me how much effort it takes to control the bow in order to obtain an even sound.

3- dynamics. when I play a bow that I really like I feel like i can create dynamics that go form ppp to FFF and back very evenly on notes as short as a quarter note!

4- spicatto, (bounce), some bows feel real heavy on the string, and some feel really light. I have a bow that does this freaky thing, when i am going downbow and start to get near the tip the bow starts to bounce like crazy!. it takes a great deal of concentration to keep that from happening. Anyway, bow bounce differently and i suppose you will choose the one that makes you play better.

5-sound, some bows tend to sound airy and hollow, other sound very heavy, muddy, quick, dull, sharp, sluggish, fast, uneven, etc. etc. and although the descriptions can be sort of abstract the feel on your hand and the sound in your ears are very real.

6- string crossing, how easy is it to cross strings? does it take a lot of bow to get an even sound? is it smooth going from the low E to the g string? does it take a lot of concentration to control the bow? etc.

Anyway guys, help me out with your descriptions. Tell me where I am missing something. these are just my impressions but I would like to hear your impressions so i can hopefully improve my awareness and improve my technique.
Thank you.

I think you have it covered!!
Fantastic reply!

 

[Don Higdon]

.... So I'm not very knowledgeable about the virtues of a fine bow. A bass buddy of mine just dropped $2k on a bow. I question his judgement, but dont dare to mention it (It may reveal some ignorance on my part).

... I dropped by my luthier's to check out more expensive bows. I kept going up in price - $400, $600, $900, $1,200 - until I couldn't tell the difference and my playing wasn't any better. I bought the $1,200 bow because I couldn't play any better with $1,500 bow.

... I question his judgement, but dont dare to mention it (It may reveal some ignorance on my part).

For me, "revealing some ignorance" is a key part of learning; it is not something to be avoided, but an opportunity to grow.
For me, part of the compelling magic of the ongoing musical journey is the endless learning that can happen, if we are open, humble, and willing.

...you cant have refined taste without experience

Nobody's gonna say it? $2,970, skychief! Seriously, $3k for a barrette for horsehair?

Can you pick out the BG player?

 

[Thumpie]

I couldn't tell a $30 bow from a $3000 bow...if I were blindfolded. Could you?

Ehm, I can tell the difference between my $30 and my $300 bow blindfolded. No question. A vast difference.

The differences between an $800 and $3,000 bow is where it gets more esoteric.

 

[carl h.]

Generally speaking, If you can't tell the difference, you do not need the better bow. Note I did not say more expensive.


fwiw, my beater bow cost $976 in '78 and my better bows cost significantly more money. They are worth every cent to me, but I use the beater for 99% of my gigging.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I recently played on an original Fétique bow, worth over €10K. Absolutely incredible what this bow could do. The sound was clear and rich. The sound spectrum wasimmense - found i could get 8 distinct levels (that's ppp to fff! - If you don't think this is amazing try playing any etude at each dynamic and see if you can clearly hear a distinction between each level) ...All this while while keeping everything in control. 6 levels is all i can manage, at a push, with my current bow).

The way it responded to Ricochet was the most amazing aspect for me. Controlled quintuplets, sextuplets, sept/oct... and at ludicrously slow and fast tempi...it was just amazing!

If i had 10K+ to spare I wouldn't even have to think about it.

 

[Ron Plichta]

Can you pick out the BG player?

FWIW, I'm a recent convert from BG and some of the finer points are lost on me right now, but I'm sure that I'll get them with time and experience.

 

[Don Higdon]

Ron, I know you are; I hope you don't think my question was an aspersion on you. The way you're approaching the subject is honest and intelligent, as opposed to the last post I quoted.

 

[Ron Plichta]

Ron, I know you are; I hope you don't think my question was an aspersion on you. The way you're approaching the subject is honest and intelligent, as opposed to the last post I quoted.

Thanks. I see such comments on the BG side of TB, usually in the form of "is Brand X worth it" and usually sone in a derogatory manner (Rickenbacker comes to mind a lot). My simple answer is because someone thinks it's worth it and is willing to pay the price.

I think the OP could have stated his opening comment more in line of, "What makes a bow so expensive?" and let himself be informed, but that's a debate for another day.

 

[r.t.swing]

laphroaig, ahh. I don't know about bows, but I like a good whisky.

 

[groooooove]

Can you pick out the BG player?

thats hilarious.

laphroaig, ahh. I don't know about bows, but I like a good whisky.

i dont "know about bows" either. i know i like my $600 bow quite a bit. definitely can tell the difference between it and higher-end (2-3k) and lower end (3-400) bows.

i also, love good whisky though.

 

[PaulCannon]

Can you taste the difference between a $300 whisky and a $2000 whisky?

 

[r.t.swing]

You buy me the whisky and I'll let you know!

 

[playbass0410]

Huge difference!
What is a difference between a Ford F*ckus and an Aston Martin Vanquish?
Can you tell?
Same thing. Expensive bow drives better, offers incentives on colour, use of dynamics etc etc.. however, if you don't play bow much, you can probably only tell the most extreme differences between it and the $30 one, like weight and balance, not much more. Do you need it? I'd say mostly not, unless you are in that sphere where your tastes are really fine-grained in that respect.

Can you tell?

Yes, the Focus is a car that can transport my DB or my familiy from A to B and the Vanquish is an object that offers zero value for doing real life support services.

So thanks for the picture - I did understand...

 

[groooooove]

Can you taste the difference between a $300 whisky and a $2000 whisky?

since i rarely break $100 for a bottle, nope!

i'll try combining the experience of $15 whisky while playing with a $30 bow then with a $100 whisky and a $3k bow..

and i'll be all the better afterwards.

back to actual bow talk-

i had this in mind while i was looking at a few bows the other day. i tried to not look at pricetags as much as i could. i wasn't "actually" shopping for a bow, just trying to inform myself, really. the bows ranged from $650 to a bit over 2k. there were 5 bows. my favorite was a very thick heavy and short stick, that was priced $850.

i'm pretty sure i liked that particular one so much because it had a novelty to it, it was significantly shorter and heavier than the others.. was stamped with a french name that i cant recall. the most expensive of the bows was quite nice, but if i had to personally justify the $500 more it cost than one of those others, i certainly couldn't.

the journey continues..

 

[nicechuck]

I don't use the bow alot, but I have 3 inexpensive bows and there is alot of difference in just them. Tho I can't ever see myself paying thousands for a bow, I can understand finding one that you fall in love with