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I don't know the major scale

#21
after almost 5 years of practicing and learning scales this is my conclusion (I don't say this is a rule or a fact):
If you don't want to be composer it doesn't matter. Now my goal is to improve my playing and my ears. If you can't play the instrument effortlessly and you can't play what you hear in your head, knowing scales doesn't make you a better Bassist.
 
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#22
The whole thing can be simplified fairly easily:

- Directions of: Ascending. Descending. Ascending/Descending. Descending/Ascending.
- 2nds. Broken 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, 7ths and in octaves.
- Diatonic triads and 7ths (Which I personally wouldn't present as scales because they are arpeggios).
- All keys. I'd go farther than he does, he only does the 12 sounding keys but I'd recommend practising things in the 15 written keys: One natural key. 7 flat keys and 7 sharp keys. 15. Yes, there are only 12 sounding but the other keys exist and you'll be surprised how many people can't play 2 bars of Cb major because they are doing mental gymnastics in their head. As soon as you have to think of a progression in an enharmonic key or better yet, read in it then you really see that people don't know everything in every key. You don't get to decide if the part is written in Cb or not and your inability to execute that lies squarely on your shoulders.

He often stumbles his way at times. Which suggests he also doesn't know it as well as he my think. That is totally fair though. Like anything else it's just a lot of practise, and keeping it up. There is so much work in doing what he's doing in that video and then it's very much a case of if you aren't practising it then you start to lose it. Which is the same as everything.

I was giving a lesson recently going through Harmonic minor scales in broken 4ths and made more than a few blunders on it, so I went back and practised it again because I hadn't done so in a while and it was clear I needed to get back on top of it again. Mentally I could say the notes in 4ths in any key but I just flubbed one too many times for my own comfort. So I went back to physically smoothen it out again, but that's why we continue to practise. The physical execution of it doesn't mean you don't know it conceptually or mentally inside and out. What you tend to find is people can physically do a lot but have no idea what they are doing and how/why it works. Ideally though the aim is to be able to execute all of this stuff on command instantly, which is again why even the best musicians of all time still practise hours every day.

If you don't understand the value of knowing this material inside out and back to front that's on you. You don't get to say it doesn't have value because you've never used or don't understand how it can be used. If you learned say the 20,000 most common words in a language you'll understand a good bit, that doesn't mean you are fluent in the language because the other 80,000 words are going to roast you. Those 80,000 words all have tremendous value in how you want to communicate with others and express yourself. Again, you don't get to decide what people say to you so you still benefit from the knowledge of these these things.

@WrapRough, you are right. All of this stuff is how you really know if you know something. But don't worry. The amount of people who don't know their major scales is astronomical as well! This stuff well and truly improves your vocabulary, ears, technique and musical ideas. At least we both know that it needs practised in this way!
 
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#24
Mili said:
If you can't play the instrument effortlessly and you can't play what you hear in your head, knowing scales doesn't make you a better Bassist.
Click to expand...

Learning things in this manner well and truly puts you on the path to knowing the instrument cold and effortlessly! The real task is being able to hear all of that, which chances are a lot of people are just wiggling their fingers on some frets rather than actually trying to connect the sound of it all together.
 
#26
WrapRough said:
It's made me realise that I really don't know the major scale.

I also just watched an Anthony Muthurajah video where he reminds us that there are 5040 permutations of the 7 degrees of a major scale. 5040. That's one one damn key and damn one scale.
Click to expand...

That is overwhelming. Sometimes, out of a desire to fully understand, we overthink. There is ONE major scale. Just an (might as well be) infinite number of ways to play and apply it. That's cool.

In a former lifetime, I was a linguist. The average human being has an vocabulary of about 20,000 to 40,000 words. You don't think about that when you are talking to the cashier at the grocery, having a conversation with drummer at rehearsal, or typing on Talk Bass. Yet your vocabulary, it's size and diversity, make up a crucial part of how you interact with other humans. It shapes thought itself.

Musical vocabulary, chords/scales/modes/etc, is very similar. Your personal experience and education will shape your musical expression in the same way that language shapes your communication. Is larger better? Maybe. It's how you use it.
 
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#27
WrapRough said:
I stumbled upon this epic Adam Neely video on mastering the major scale. He did a five hour live stream...

Thankfully someone has posted a contents with timestamps!



It's made me realise that I really don't know the major scale.

I also just watched an Anthony Muthurajah video where he reminds us that there are 5040 permutations of the 7 degrees of a major scale. 5040. That's one one damn key and damn one scale.

I really need to practice more.
Click to expand...

When it comes down to it, brother, trust your ear. All that theory stuff is great to know, but it's a tool. Like Victor Wooten said, when we drive our cars the tool box is in the trunk, where it belongs, not in the passenger seat. When you speak, you don't think, "OK, am I using a verb here, an adjective, etc.." No, you just speak. Same with music. It's such a difficult concept to grasp, yet so simply elegant.

I asked Jimmy Johnson (the GREATEST bass player on the planet) if he'd give me a lesson. He said yes - Trust your ear. End of lesson.
 
#28
mb94952 said:
When it comes down to it, brother, trust your ear. All that theory stuff is great to know, but it's a tool. Like Victor Wooten said, when we drive our cars the tool box is in the trunk, where it belongs, not in the passenger seat. When you speak, you don't think, "OK, am I using a verb here, an adjective, etc.." No, you just speak. Same with music. It's such a difficult concept to grasp, yet so simply elegant.

I asked Jimmy Johnson (the GREATEST bass player on the planet) if he'd give me a lesson. He said yes - Trust your ear. End of lesson.
Click to expand...

But surely trusting your ear is linked to your theory knowledge. You know the sound of a fifth, say, because on the drilling of scales and what not..?
 
#30
WrapRough said:
But surely trusting your ear is linked to your theory knowledge. You know the sound of a fifth, say, because on the drilling of scales and what not..?
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Well, I don't read a lick of music. It's just from years of playing and listening. I look at playing in shapes on the neck. The box, the sideways L, the bow tie (the box criss crossed), etc. I listened to a lot of Black Sabbath. If you can learn Ozzy's "Speak of the Devil" album from the early 80's you'll be a rock bass player ready to play in any band. Just take your time and don't be hard on yourself. Try Nirvana songs, Van Halen, Tom Petty, CCR, etc. Play tons of covers and soon you'll see all the music you probably listen to can played. Start with the root note and most songs in major use the 1,4,5 (sideways L) or variations of that.
 
#32
Malcolm35 said:
This is why I like old time dirt simple Country. Start with the basic I-IV-V and grow from that. Little bites one at a time do end up being something else.
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Country and blues are a good start.
However, learning I-IV-V without learning why the chords are numbered that way is like learning words without learning the alphabet.
 
#33
mb94952 said:
Well, I don't read a lick of music. It's just from years of playing and listening. I look at playing in shapes on the neck. The box, the sideways L, the bow tie (the box criss crossed), etc. I listened to a lot of Black Sabbath. If you can learn Ozzy's "Speak of the Devil" album from the early 80's you'll be a rock bass player ready to play in any band. Just take your time and don't be hard on yourself. Try Nirvana songs, Van Halen, Tom Petty, CCR, etc. Play tons of covers and soon you'll see all the music you probably listen to can played. Start with the root note and most songs in major use the 1,4,5 (sideways L) or variations of that.
Click to expand...

I hear you man, but I've been there and done that and I just wasn't satisfied. I always felt like I was painting by numbers and I wanted to truly understand everything I was doing. Now that said, I'm not playing many songs at the moment so I am perhaps going too far the other way. I just need to find some balance between the two i think
 
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#34
WrapRough said:
I hear you man, but I've been there and done that and I just wasn't satisfied. I always felt like I was painting by numbers and I wanted to truly understand everything I was doing. Now that said, I'm not playing many songs at the moment so I am perhaps going too far the other way. I just need to find some balance between the two i think
Click to expand...
I TOTALLY get it, man. I was misled then by your post. I thought you were a newbie, but it sounds like you got a handle on things. I was there where you are now and took jazz classes at the local junior college and learned a lot. Then, I felt like my playing got worse because I was too stuck in my head. I had to to step back and find the balance between the two. There's nothing wrong with painting by numbers. It's an easier way to play. I don't have any words of wisdom. I just had to revert back to trusting my ear and instincts of my style and I find it to be most satisfying. If I don't understand the "why is it like this ?" I'm ok with it now.
 
#36
mb94952 said:
I TOTALLY get it, man. I was misled then by your post. I thought you were a newbie, but it sounds like you got a handle on things. I was there where you are now and took jazz classes at the local junior college and learned a lot. Then, I felt like my playing got worse because I was too stuck in my head. I had to to step back and find the balance between the two. There's nothing wrong with painting by numbers. It's an easier way to play. I don't have any words of wisdom. I just had to revert back to trusting my ear and instincts of my style and I find it to be most satisfying. If I don't understand the "why is it like this ?" I'm ok with it now.
Click to expand...

I played for about ten years and then had about 8 years off. I've been playing again since about January. Back in the day I was a covers maniac, but had no clue what I was playing or why it sounded good. I had no improvisation skills, no real knowledge. Since my return I've got a teacher for the first time and am really learning the theory and undertaking a proper practice regime. Not just playing, but proper practice. I'll admit it's not nearly as fun but I need to take the hit and get my theory and fundamentals up to scratch before I can get to learning loads of songs again. Don't get me wrong, I still have a playalong every day, and have some pieces I am learning, but it's not the focus anymore.
 
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#37
Smooth_bass88 said:
Right, except that if you're playing a blues in A, an A blues scale works, but so does a C major pentatonic.
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Of course…. In many senses, all notes work. The interval offer tensions against the tonic and which ones are used and when depends on the players taste… and that was the point, the major scale is just one combination against many and there are thousand others in western and other cultures using them around the planet. When playing an A7 chord you could - just to name a few - play:
  • D mayor
  • A major/minor pentatonic
  • A blues scale
  • A minor pentatonic altered (-4)
  • Bd octatonic scale (or C#, E, G)
  • A whole note scale
  • D minor harmonic scale
  • F# pentatonic and blues scale
  • D minor melodic scale
A way to expand the vocabulary is to master these scales, and at one point is less about scales but about intervals, phrasing, timing and modulation. I just wanted to point that there is significant variety beyond the major scale and its modes.
 

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