I Don't Know What I'm Doing (John East Preamps)

[KingOlav]

So I have a lefty Schecter Omen Extreme 5. I'm acclimating to the whole 5-string bit quite nicely, and it sounds pretty nice with the Rotosound flatwounds on it.

But of course, like the finicky musician I am, I'm not completely satisfied with the tone.

I've recently learned of John East preamps. I saw one demonstrated on a Kingston Heir fretless bass on YouTube. It was coupled with Bartolini pickups and sounded pretty swell, I thought.

Bearing that in mind, I have a couple questions. Would it work to have the East preamp installed on my bass, and just keep the "Schecter Diamond Bass" standard-issue pickups in there? Would the added EQ controls of the new preamp change their sound all that much?

Also, the version of the East I'm thinking of using (U-Retro Deluxe 4-knob) has a passive tone push/pull switch on it. If I understand correctly, the Schecter pickups are active ONLY, and thus when that switch would be tripped, no sound would be emitted. Is that about right?

All that was assuming I keep the current pickups in there. Another idea I'm tinkering with (but hesitate on due to the cost) is to get a set of Bartolinis, probably the BD5CBC model (as it looks like the only pair they have that would really fit in my bass), and use that with the East preamp.

I have a tough time understanding the theory behind Bartolinis. They're usually passive, but can also be switched to active? That, I don't really get, even though the answer is probably simple. So with the East preamp, I could use the passive tone push/pull to achieve a passive sound (or just use it if the battery runs out)? And then when the active mode is engaged, I would have all that active EQ to utilize (complete with all the delicious mids)?

If you've read this far, thanks a lot. I'll be checking back for input.

 

[Margus Alviste]

Passive Bartolini pickups plus U-Retro Deluxe = active bass with passive switch and tone control.

PS! With the parametric mids you can dial sounds that are quite different from your existing tone.

 

[Jared Lash]

Are you sure the Schecter has active pickups.

Very few pickups are actually "active". Most of the time when people say "active electronics" it refers to passive pickups connected to a powered preamp - usually with a 9V battery.

Active pickups would be where the pickups themselves require power to operate. EMG makes a few sets of active pickups but even most EMG models are actually passive.

Schecter doesn't seem to clarify on their website so maybe someone who knows will chime in. Or you could email them for the answer.

If, as I suspect, the pickups are passive with an active preamp then the John East will simply replace the stock preamp and the active/passive mode will function fine. Depending on how the pickups are wound they may not have a ton of output when run passive but then again they might. I don't know enough about the pickups they use to say either way.

As for whether the preamp will change the sound dramatically it depends on the preamp you're installing and how different it is from what it is replacing. The East U-Retro has a very slight scoop built in for a modern tone. Of course that's regarding the tone when set flat. There's no doubt that the added mid control of the East will give you more ability to sculpt your tone than the 2 band Schecter preamp.

As for swapping pickups, unless I'm aiming for a specific sound my philosophy has always been to change one thing and THEN decide if I need to mod further.

 

[KingOlav]

Thanks for answering guys!

@Jared: I like what you said at the end about changing one thing at a time. Incidentally, I also play the bagpipes, and my teacher had a similar philosophy leading up to the competition, because too much can go wrong if one fixes too many things at once on a bagpipe. It sounds like a good (and cost-effective!) idea to use this philosophy with the bass as well.

 

[edpal]

Passive Bartolini pickups plus U-Retro Deluxe = active bass with passive switch and tone control.

PS! With the parametric mids you can dial sounds that are quite different from your existing tone.

Passives with a pre-amp are still passives, only the signal is getting a boost to fight line loss. Better tone controls like TOneStyler and the U-Retro can cut bass or mids while a conventional passive tone control will only cut highs. But some other food for thought....

Passives with a pre-amp are not the same as actives, it is a difference in how the sound is created. Sure they sound similar but the electro-mechanical process is different.

Passive pickup: strong magnets, more windings, creates CURRENT through induction, that is, the swinging of the string within it's magnetic field. Requires grounded strings to maximize the inductive current production - they are technically part of the circuit.

Passive with pre-amp: same as above, boosted before going to your amp, no difference in the sound it "pickups", just in what gets delivered due to less line loss.

True actives: much weaker magnets, fewer windings, windings are "charged" with a current provided by on-board circuit which is generically called a pre-amp but that is only a small, final part of it's total function. Sound is the result of the string DISRUPTING the flow of current provided by battery. No grounding needed as the strings are not part of the circuit.

I realize these thoughts fly in the face of what is generally put forth as the difference between actives and passives. A battery box on an ax tells you nothing of why it is there - there are 2 very difference possibilities. I'll visit back in a few hours and deal with the controversy in one shot.

 

[edpal]

Are you sure the Schecter has active pickups.

Very few pickups are actually "active". Most of the time when people say "active electronics" it refers to passive pickups connected to a powered preamp - usually with a 9V battery.

Absolutely. My layman's test - my passive pickups can all hold a truss rod wrench with the ax on an upright stand, my actives can barely hold up the tiny allen wrench used for adjusting the bridge.

I would agree that some of the early EMG setups were really just passives with a pre-amp attached. Their more recent ones like the EEMCS are definitely different than their earlier ones. Weaker magnets, narrower coil, less clanky than earlier offerings.

OP - you also should consisder how actives and passives react differently to picckup height. Passives get rough and weak if raised too high, actives can go much closer. Frett at your highest fret - an active will sound decent if only 1/8-3/16" away from string. A passive would sound awful at that distance.

 

[DWBass]

Me personally, I'd put a Bartolini setup (pickups and preamp) in there. That East preamp is gonna cost you. It ain't cheap. Between the East preamp and a pro set of pickups (pick a brand) you could buy another bass. But if ya got $500 to burn, it's your call.

 

[David Jayne]

Thanks for answering guys!

@Jared: I like what you said at the end about changing one thing at a time. Incidentally, I also play the bagpipes, ..

Are most bagpipes active, or passive?

 

[KingOlav]

Are most bagpipes active, or passive?

Welp, they're passive insofar as they are nothing without the mighty gales which issue from the bellows in my ribcage; active in that it takes a lot of effort to keep them going and keep my kilt from blowing around in the wind at the same time...

 

[KingOlav]

And @edpal: thanks for the info; I shall conduct said test momentarily.

 

[KingOlav]

Analysis: it smells like carrots and throwup.

No wait.

They're active. I'm pretty sure. They hold up a tiny allen key but not a big one. Magnet-wise they feel even weaker than the single coils that were in my jazz bass...

 

[David Jayne]

Ok. What do you see in the control cavity?

 

[bongostealth]

If your pickups have a red wire or any other color wire that are connected to the red wire from the battery clip then the pickups are in fact active. If not, they are passive. Either way, the U-Retro preamp will work. The "active/passive" function will work with active pickups in the sense that when you pull up on the tone control, you will be in a "preamp bypass" mode and only the volume, blend, and tone will work. However, even with active pickups, you will notice that (1) the tone control works in either active or passive mode, and (2) you will not however have a direct linear progression in the amount of "tone" you dial in -- rather, it's more of a square.

I have a bass with active Seymour Duncan Basslines and a U-Retro Deluxe. It works and sounds great!

However, DWBass makes a very good point in that for a Schecter, you would be better off just installing a complete Bartolini setup due to the price-to-value correlation.

 

[DWBass]

I have a tough time understanding the theory behind Bartolinis. They're usually passive, but can also be switched to active? That, I don't really get, even though the answer is probably simple. So with the East preamp, I could use the passive tone push/pull to achieve a passive sound (or just use it if the battery runs out)? And then when the active mode is engaged, I would have all that active EQ to utilize (complete with all the delicious mids)?

(You can't switch 'active pickups' on and off. You are confused about that.)

With a Bartolini preamp, you can get the active/passive option. That gives you added options such as if your battery dies mid gig, just pull up on the volume knob and keep on going. Or if you desire to use an external preamp of some sort, switch the bass to passive and control your sound via the external preamp. But you can also just have it active.