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I don't sing loud. Should I get a different mic?

Smallmouth_Bass

Smallmouth_Bass

Dec 29, 2005
8,024
6,061
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
#1
So, I do some backup vocals in one of my bands and I can generally do a decent job singing in tune and in time. I don't have great tone or a powerful voice. The problem is that I do not sing very loud. I have a very limited range and I am doing a fair amount of falsetto. Turning me up too loud will result in feedback.

Should I consider getting a super-cardioid mic to help reduce the on-stage mic bleed? I always sing right on the mic.
 
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#2
Smallmouth_Bass said:
So, I do some backup vocals in one of my bands and I can generally do a decent job singing in tune and in time. I don't have great tone or a powerful voice. The problem is that I do not sing very loud. I have a very limited range and I am doing a fair amount of falsetto. Turning me up too loud will result in feedback.

Should I consider getting a super-cardioid mic to help reduce the on-stage mic bleed? I always sing right on the mic.
Click to expand...


Are you placing your lips right on the mic?

A better mic may help but at some point the rejection off the back will be irrelevant because sound will reflect of your face and teeth into the front of the mic.

The first thing I would consider is whether the audio tech is properly ringing the system for feedback. This involves turning the system up and then running through the system EQs to find and notch out the problem frequencies. Ringing the system can significantly increase gain before feedback and also improve the sound.

If you do get hyper- or super-cardioid, keep in mind the optimal position for your monitor moves from directly behind the mic to the sides.

upload_2022-6-18_21-24-53.png



In my experience, you have to stay right on top of a hyper- or super-cardioid mic. A problem with this is the more directional a mic is, typically the stronger the proximity effect. Proximity effect means the low end becomes stronger as the mic gets closer to the sound source. The audio tech will need to use a high pass filter and fairly aggressive EQ down low to make your voice sound natural. If this is not done the sound will be very bass heavy (in a bad way).

This graphic show the proximity effect for a (hypercardioid) Beyerdynamic M88TG:
upload_2022-6-18_21-30-58.png


T
 
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#3
Smallmouth_Bass said:
So, I do some backup vocals in one of my bands and I can generally do a decent job singing in tune and in time. I don't have great tone or a powerful voice. The problem is that I do not sing very loud. I have a very limited range and I am doing a fair amount of falsetto. Turning me up too loud will result in feedback.

Should I consider getting a super-cardioid mic to help reduce the on-stage mic bleed? I always sing right on the mic.
Click to expand...
What mic are you using currently?
 
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#6
Wasnex said:
Are you placing your lips right on the mic?

A better mic may help but at some point the rejection off the back will be irrelevant because sound will reflect of your face and teeth into the front of the mic.

The first thing I would consider is whether the audio tech is properly ringing the system for feedback. This involves turning the system up and then running through the system EQs to find and notch out the problem frequencies. Ringing the system can significantly increase gain before feedback and also improve the sound.

If you do get hyper- or super-cardioid, keep in mind the optimal position for your monitor moves from directly behind the mic to the sides.

View attachment 4724700


In my experience, you have to stay right on top of a hyper- or super-cardioid mic. A problem with this is the more directional a mic is, typically the stronger the proximity effect. Proximity effect means the low end becomes stronger as the mic gets closer to the sound source. The audio tech will need to use a high pass filter and fairly aggressive EQ down low to make your voice sound natural. If this is not done the sound will be very bass heavy (in a bad way).

This graphic show the proximity effect for a (hypercardioid) Beyerdynamic M88TG:
View attachment 4724706

In my experience, you have to stay right on top of a hyper- or super-cardioid mic. A problem with this is the more directional a mic is, typically the stronger the proximity effect. Proximity effect means the low end becomes stronger as the mic gets closer to the sound source. The audio tech will need to use a high pass filter and fairly aggressive EQ down low to make your voice sound natural. If this is not done the sound will be very bass heavy (in a bad way).

This graphic show the proximity effect for a (hypercardioid) Beyerdynamic M88TG:
View attachment 4724706

T
Click to expand...

I do sing right on the mic (touching). Unfortunately, there is no audio tech. We're doing (or not doing it!) from the stage. It's more setting levels than actual thorough mixing.

I did have an audio tech buddy show me how to notch the offending frequencies at one show, so I have kept that setting and it seems to be working well so far. I am not sure if that changes from room to room.

DaveParker39 said:
What mic are you using currently?
Click to expand...

I am currently using a Sennheiser e935.

Groove Doctor said:
Using IEMs means you won't need a monitor & there's virtually no feedback.

You'll hear yourself a lot easier too which will help with pitch & tone. Wire in your bass signal too and you'll lower your onstage volume for the other members.
Click to expand...

Actually, I have just done that for the last few gigs and it has greatly improved things. I still need to be turned up very high to be heard in the mains though. That is one of the main reasons why I am wondering if a different mic will be useful to remove some of the stage sound.
 
#9
Smallmouth_Bass said:
Yes, I should! It's tough when the bulk of what I sing is falsetto.
Click to expand...

I understand- I sing a lot ofhigh stuff as well. But no reason why you can't use more breath. You get in habits - need to break them. When you are driving alone in your car, pop in the tunes and work on it
 
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#11
Smallmouth_Bass said:
So, I do some backup vocals in one of my bands and I can generally do a decent job singing in tune and in time. I don't have great tone or a powerful voice. The problem is that I do not sing very loud. I have a very limited range and I am doing a fair amount of falsetto. Turning me up too loud will result in feedback.

Should I consider getting a super-cardioid mic to help reduce the on-stage mic bleed? I always sing right on the mic.
Click to expand...

Has the trim been adjusted to "saturate" the mic channel? I usually attenuate in the 400-600 and 4k-6k as a matter of routine...it's fairly consistent venue-to-venue.

Riis
 
#12
A super cardioid will, in a reverberant field, get you about 2 dB more gain before feedback - something, but not a lot. Positioning the monitor to be in the mic's null will often help more than that.

All that being said, there isn't as much that today's technology can do to make the situation dramatically better. The real fix for a quiet singer in a loud band is a louder singer - whether that's training the singer or replacing them.
 
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#14
micguy said:
A super cardioid will, in a reverberant field, get you about 2 dB more gain before feedback - something, but not a lot. Positioning the monitor to be in the mic's null will often help more than that.

All that being said, there isn't as much that today's technology can do to make the situation dramatically better. The real fix for a quiet singer in a loud band is a louder singer - whether that's training the singer or replacing them.
Click to expand...

It's a good thing I am the bass player! ;)
 
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#15
DirtDog said:
The mic is fine.

things to consider aside from singing and mic technique:

- gain staging
- monitor placement wrt mic location
- Mains speaker location wrt mic location
- eq
Click to expand...

Monitor placement has been good since I went to in-ears. No monitor pointing at me!

Mains location - it depends on the venue. There is one venue we are regulars at where I am fairly close to a mains speaker which is behind me. I try to turn it so it's pointing away from me as much as possible.
 
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#17
Really this is all about gain staging. The gain of the mic has to be turned up overly high to pick up a very low gain source, which is your voice. That causes the mic to pick up everything else as well and feedback is the result. If you were to spend some time working on raising the gain at the sound source level—strengthening your voice—you would solve this problem. Without that, IMHO there isn't any magic combination of gear that will make it a whole lot better. Sing in the car a lot, and there are some good YouTube videos out there to help you get started.

By way of inspiration, a couple of years ago I had complications from surgery that caused me to completely lose my voice, after 20 years of singing. Like I could barely hear myself talk. It took six months but I completely relearned how to sing from zero and my voice is better and stronger now than it was before. If I could come back from that, you can make your voice stronger. Go out there and do it!
 
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#19
Smallmouth_Bass said:
Monitor placement has been good since I went to in-ears. No monitor pointing at me!

Mains location - it depends on the venue. There is one venue we are regulars at where I am fairly close to a mains speaker which is behind me. I try to turn it so it's pointing away from me as much as possible.
Click to expand...

Sorry didn't see that you were using IEMs. The feedback is a function of the mains, then. Your mic is cardioid meaning good rejection 180 degrees from the "front" of the mic but less so from the sides (90 degrees left and right). Think about a better way to position your mic WRT the mains (stand further back, pivot left or right accordingly).

And I'll say it again: gain staging.
 
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#20
Smallmouth_Bass said:
So, I do some backup vocals in one of my bands and I can generally do a decent job singing in tune and in time. I don't have great tone or a powerful voice. The problem is that I do not sing very loud. I have a very limited range and I am doing a fair amount of falsetto. Turning me up too loud will result in feedback.

Should I consider getting a super-cardioid mic to help reduce the on-stage mic bleed? I always sing right on the mic.
Click to expand...
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