I don't understand compressors

[simplebassliner]

Ok, so I do understand compressors, but not the way I see a lot of people use them. I see many people use them to make all the notes the same volume, but that seems a bit lame.

I red this and the first thing that I crossed my mind was, is this trolling? But I reread it and if I understand correctly the op don't have problem with compressor but with the way people using it.
In my perfect world I would love to be able to improve my playing so I can always control my finger to give consisten sound all the time, all over the fingerboard, but for a "weekend warrior" like me, It's so much easier to enjoy the sound that my finger generate when the comp is on, so more power to the op with his/her technique. But for me, I guess I'm just lame and I'll keep turning on my comp to give me joy of playing and consistent volume on every note I play.

 

[Jack MN]

If you set the ratio on your compressor to 3:1 or thereabouts, and the threshold to just knock down the volume of the loudest notes, it a compressor. If you set the ratio to 10:1 or above, and the threshold so low that it affects all your notes, you've basically turned it into a limiter. Compressors knock down the volume of that occasional note you happen to hit too hard and help the bass line sit nicely in the mix. Limiters eliminate your dynamics completely and make the volume of all notes the same - it creates a certain sound that's common in various styles of music, but it's not really a "compressor" when you use it like that.

 

[FretNoMore]

I red this and the first thing that I crossed my mind was, is this trolling? But I reread it and if I understand correctly the op don't have problem with compressor but with the way people using it.
In my perfect world I would love to be able to improve my playing so I can always control my finger to give consisten sound all the time, all over the fingerboard, but for a "weekend warrior" like me, It's so much easier to enjoy the sound that my finger generate when the comp is on, so more power to the op with his/her technique. But for me, I guess I'm just lame and I'll keep turning on my comp to give me joy of playing and consistent volume on every note I play.

I agree with you here, I'll use any tools available to make the playing easier and the music better; I'd rather spend my time on more important things than woodshedding to get the kind of fine control of the dynamics that the OP thinks is mandatory.

As to trolling, the OP has strong opinions on how other people should do things and that I find objectionable; do whatever works for you and live and let live, there is not one universally correct way of doing things. If really cranking the compressor makes a sound that pleases someone then that has no impact whatsoever on what the OP does, and he has no need to have a judgemental opinion about it. Frankly, consider minding your own business, be the best bass player you can be instead of worrying about someone else chosing a different path.

 

[40Hz]

There's several videos up on YouTube that get into how to effectively use a compressor or limiting pedal. They go well beyond setting them so that all your notes come out at the same volume. Might be worth a look.

I don't generally use compression. After many years of playing, I have very good control over my dynamics. But when I do use a compressor (FYI a Keeley Bassist), it's done with a very light touch. Half the time I'll only use it to provide a small amount of boost.

In my case, switching on the Keeley is mostly determined by the instrument and amp combination I'm using. Some basses into some amps just sound better with a hint of compression added to the signal chain. Others don't.

 

[40Hz]

...As to trolling, the OP has strong opinions on how other people should do things and that I find objectionable; do whatever works for you and live and let live, there is not one universally correct way of doing things. If really cranking the compressor makes a sound that pleases someone then that has no impact whatsoever on what the OP does, and he has no need to have a judgemental opinion about it. Frankly, consider minding your own business, be the best bass player you can be instead of worrying about someone else chosing a different path.

FWIW I think we need to take age into account around here occasionally. The new generation has a different way of expressing itself than we oldsters do. I don't think it's so much they're deliberately trying to be offensive. They just talk differently than we do.(Most of 'em anyway.)

(Note: I've never seen the accusation of "trolling" thrown around as casually and frequently as I've seen it done here. Does TB have an unusually high level of trolling - or is it just a "cultural thing" in this forum? I've run and/or modded a lot of forums. And I'm a regular contributor to something like eight, so I'm no stranger to online dialog. But to my mind, at least half of what gets called "trolling" at TB wouldn't be considered trolling anywhere else I've ever been. Maybe the TB community might have conditioned itself to be just a tiny bit too sensitive when it comes to opinions or counter-opinions if they're expressed a little too strongly?)

 

[Jared Lash]

Outside of purposely super squashed tones (Tony Levin at times with Peter Gabriel) the purpose of a compressor is absolutely NOT to make the volume of each note the same.

A main purpose is to narrow the dynamic range somewhat (compressing notes over the threshold with make up gain increasing the volume of quiet ones) which should actually have the effect of making your playing dynamics MORE noticeable.

After all it's a similar function that tube amps perform and you don't hear people complaining that they negatively affect tone or take away rom players developing proper technique.

 

[FretNoMore]

FWIW I think we need to take age into account around here occasionally. The new generation has a different way of expressing itself than we oldsters do. I don't think it's so much they're deliberately trying to be offensive. They just talk differently than we do.(Most of 'em anyway.)

(Note: I've never seen the accusation of "trolling" thrown around as casually and frequently as I've seen it done here. Does TB have an unusually high level of trolling - or is it just a "cultural thing" in this forum? I've run and/or modded a lot of forums. And I'm a regular contributor to something like eight, so I'm no stranger to online dialog. But to my mind, at least half of what gets called "trolling" at TB wouldn't be considered trolling anywhere else I've ever been. Maybe the TB community might have conditioned itself to be just a tiny bit too sensitive when it comes to opinions or counter-opinions if they're expressed a little too strongly?)

The Effects forum has indeed become a bit sensitive to this, because of the frequent "attacks" from non-effect users that come here only to tell people how wrong or unnecessary effect use is.

I see the OP is young, and that can to some degree excuse the outlook; opinions and understanding can change as you get to live and see a bit more.

 

[Sputnik Monroe]

I do use a compressor live ... The best being a Mullard GZ34 driving KT88s into 418Bs

 

[Nev375]

Most of the time I don't use one cause I'm playing low volume. But I also switch up styles a lot mid song, so if I'm driving my rig hard and loud and playing fingerstyle then suddenly switch to slap or distortion for a part the compression will save my rig's life and my sound.

 

[tonemachine]

FWIW I think we need to take age into account around here occasionally. The new generation has a different way of expressing itself than we oldsters do. I don't think it's so much they're deliberately trying to be offensive. They just talk differently than we do.(Most of 'em anyway.)

(Note: I've never seen the accusation of "trolling" thrown around as casually and frequently as I've seen it done here. Does TB have an unusually high level of trolling - or is it just a "cultural thing" in this forum? I've run and/or modded a lot of forums. And I'm a regular contributor to something like eight, so I'm no stranger to online dialog. But to my mind, at least half of what gets called "trolling" at TB wouldn't be considered trolling anywhere else I've ever been. Maybe the TB community might have conditioned itself to be just a tiny bit too sensitive when it comes to opinions or counter-opinions if they're expressed a little too strongly?)

FWIW, TB mods put up a post the other day that the effects forum is the wrong forum for knocking effects. It seems that if one has questions about them then it's cool but rants about them or suggesting that it's a cheat (or anything to that effect) is not cool. Again, this is according to a mod post just the other day so reply to them rather than me.

 

[40Hz]

FWIW, TB mods put up a post the other day that the effects forum is the wrong forum for knocking effects. It seems that if one has questions about them then it's cool but rants about them or suggesting that it's a cheat (or anything to that effect) is not cool. Again, this is according to a mod post just the other day so reply to them rather than me.

Rants are in the eye of the beholder. I'm the sort that can be quite passionate about something without getting (or sounding) angry. But that's me.

Sorry for not replying to a mod as you requested. But I have no idea how to do that. And besides, I'm speaking to the collective here - not making a formal complaint which I would do via a PM if I felt the need to do so.

I'm also not telling anyone what to do. I have no agenda here. I'm just offering my thoughts and suggesting they may contain something to think about.

 

[warrplayer]

Ok, so I do understand compressors, but not the way I see a lot of people use them. ... I apologize in advance if your feelings were hurt and if so explain to me why I'm an idiot please.

Hmmmm. No hurt feelings, but I think you are slagging off a perfectly valid art form by suggesting that there is little to be gained by employing massive levels of squash. certainly no one should start their bass playing journey utilizing a compressor as a crutch, but I doubt you could do anything remotely similar to this without a good comp.

 

[DavC]

i think of a comp as just a safety valve mostly for limiting peaks ... especially when doing digital recordings .. !

live , maybe just to save your speakers from accidental spikes ... or the PA .. !

i agree folks should work on controlling their dynamics themselves first .. !

but also , some people like some extra low EQ in their sound , and a comp would help control the spikes those freqs would cause ... i like to dig in most often , so i tend to use it for that while playing/recording ...

YMMV

 

[Jared Lash]

Billy Sheehan was the other player I was going to mention when discussing compression as an effect though it's not quite fair to call it an effect in his case - it's part of his normal sound. He uses a high ratio (10:1) a relatively low threshold and very, very short attack and decay times. Because he plays such busy lines with harmonics, slight bends, taps etc he really does want the volume to pretty much be the same for each note. I remember reading that he felt like it got him closer to what he heard when practicing the bass without an amp.

Some guys like the tone enhancement and punch you can get from some compressors with a low ratio and relatively slow attack.

Some want a limiter downstream to protect their speakers from other effects like filters, suboctaves (Meatbox, Octamizer come to mind) etc

Some want their bass to simply "sit" a bit better in a mix. Every recording I've ever done from professionally engineered to me fiddling at home has involved compression. The local venues with FOH always compress me at the board and over the years I've gone back and forth on having a compressor on my board for when I'm carrying the room. Currently I have one - a Keeley Bassist.

And yeah, sometimes compression is an effect. Some guys dig the pumping or breathing sound. I know I used to, though these days I like more transparent compression. But I also used a very expensive tube compressor that could do brick wall limiting along with a LPF and wide range overdrive to simulate old school dub tones where the bass was slamming the console and overloading the transformer and reel-to-reel. It was the only time I ever got those classic Scientist or Mad Professor bass tones in a live setting and wouldn't have been possible without a tube compressor.

Compression is like any other tool for a bassist. It can be used or not used depending on what the players wants or needs. The big problem is that it is often misused giving the player misusing it a warped notion of what compression should or could do for them if used properly.

 

[Nephilymbass]

Ok, so I do understand compressors, but not the way I see a lot of people use them. I see many people use them to make all the notes the same volume, but that seems a bit lame. First of all, you should be able to control your note volume, if not then you need to improve your technique. Second, if you accidentally hit something the pedal could make it more noticeable. Finally, I feel that altering note volume is an important part of bass playing, especially if you want to give your playing some personality. Even if you had a separate volume pedal there are some things that would be nearly impossible to do. That is all. Thank you for enduring my rant and share your feelings (possibly hate) below. I apologize in advance if your feelings were hurt and if so explain to me why I'm an idiot please.

There are different amounts of compression. You are only referring to hard compression. You can get a sense of how hard a compressor is compressing the signal by playing swells and noticing the difference in the effective range of the volume knob. With my compressor setting I still have some dynamic control. But when I do a swell after my volume knob passes about 60% it stays about the same volume. This keeps me from blowing stuff up, or FOH from turning me down if I causeva signal spike while jumping around. If I want more dynamic range I just turn it off for that particular part.

As far as making mistakes more obvious that's debatable. It keeps the signal from having hard spikes when im jumping around onstage. So for band like mine it can minimize what my be the only mistake you make and that's a spike in the signal.

I personally love that I can hit a harmonic even on the low b string and actually hear it with my compressor.

For recording I've recorded with and without and you can get the bass to sit in the mix better without clipping or the low end causing average stereos to fart out of you use a decent compressor. Our last album had a lot more low end than our previous efforts.

I will say though that some compressors just suck. Compression is a great tool for us bass players to have but all compressors are NOT created equal. The cheapest ones I would reccomend are the old discontinued boss Cs-2 or the Maxon, the Cali76 is popular one. For rack compression a dbx 160a or if you want to spend big money for what imo is the best compressor get a distressor compressor.

And to end.... I played bass for 20 years without a compressor, I have pretty good control while sitting or standing still, but now it's on nearly all the time

 

[Joe Nerve]

So long as we're on the subject...

Last week I played a very tightly run show, which was more of a showcase kind of thing. We were asked to make transitions as quickly as possible, and I never have issues with that kind of thing. I like my sound, but I'm fine playing with someone else's settings, if the situation calls for it. Anyhow, the bass player who played in all the other bands had his setup with a bunch of effects and told me to click something on the cable to bypass it all... I couldn't hear/understand what he was telling me, so I asked him to just do it, and he did (or so I thought). Bass sounded crappy, I did as quick a tweak on the head as I could, and when the band kicked in my sound was god-awful. Like I had crazy distortion that ripped out all the bottom and mids. Sounded like I was playing a guitar. I looked down at my feet and the only thing he had engaged was a somewhat elaborate compressor. I clicked it off, and my volume dropped ridiculously... he had some other pedals going on, and well... I just threw the towel in. Cranked the bass on the amp and finished our short set.

After the set I asked the guy what the deal was with that, and he apologized. Said he didn't realize the compressor was kicked in. I had no idea, first, that a compressor was capable of doing such things. Second I have no clue why this guy was using it as such. He's a great bass player, and a nice guy too. I dunno. Felt like this was good place to vent that one there .

 

[Jay2U]

Compression... Compressors have controls to set the desired levels. Tweaking attack and ratio enables the player to use both compressed and uncompressed the same time, depending on the volume control(s) of the bass and playing technique. Compressors can be switched on and off as well.
As with all tools: RTFM!

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Don't forget, most of the time the Front of House (FOH) PA is using a compressor is to protect their speakers from the peaks you generate with your bass. Especially when doing slap bass, the attack is huge and generates a huge power spike to replicate it. They take that huge spike and max it out at a level their system can handle without causing clipping in their system. Clipping can ruin speakers quickly. This allows them to run a louder mix for a larger gig without ruining their gear. So at least half of this compression thing is protecting gear.

A good compressor gives you LOTS of control options.
• Threshold, which is at what level the compressor will kick in.
• Attack, which is how quickly after reaching the threshold it clamps on.
• Knee, which is whether the compressor clamps on immediately (hard-knee) or eases into it (soft-knee). This is often combined in with the Attack control.
• Ratio, typically seen as 3:1, 4:1 6:1, etc. At a setting of 6:1, for every 6db in increased signal, the output goes up 1 db and the rest of the power from that signal is spent as sustain - the higher the ratio, the quieter the note and the longer the sustain. If you want to sound like a Farfisa organ, max it out and you will hear no attack on the note but just steady sound (without using a volume pedal).
• Decay or Release, how soon after the signal drops below the threshold the compressor stops.

You generally only get all those options in a studio or FOH system. Some people really like the "fat", squashed sound of a high ratio and about the only way to get that is with a compressor. Others might use one to get the sustain you get from fingers without the heavy attack caused by using a pick. Some want to run higher volumes without damaging their equipment from the heavy attack of the initial strike on the string. Some believe that the best way to use a compressor is to set it so they get longer sustain on their notes without sounding like they are using a compressor. So it can be lots of different things to lots of different folks.

Most after market compressors and some built in amp compressors will give you 2 controls. They are typically threshold and ratio. Everything else is programmed in as the designer thought best. I have an auto-compressor on both of my Eden amps that I don't like at all for finger playing, but actually works well for slap. I almost never play slap, so I usually leave my auto-compressor turned off. that auto-compressor will basically let me adjust the threshold of where it kicks in and that's it. The new Eden WTP series uses a 2-control compressor that they call "amount" and "ratio". If you're going aftermarket for a compressor, the more controls you can get the better chance you have of making your compressed signal sound good to you.

After all that, because I don't really play slap, the only time I use a compressor is when the FOH adds it to my channel. Outside of that it's just my fingers on the strings of my Jazz bass.

Dan

 

[MDBass]

Ok, so I do understand compressors, but not the way I see a lot of people use them. I see many people use them to make all the notes the same volume, but that seems a bit lame. First of all, you should be able to control your note volume, if not then you need to improve your technique. Second, if you accidentally hit something the pedal could make it more noticeable. Finally, I feel that altering note volume is an important part of bass playing, especially if you want to give your playing some personality. Even if you had a separate volume pedal there are some things that would be nearly impossible to do. That is all. Thank you for enduring my rant and share your feelings (possibly hate) below. I apologize in advance if your feelings were hurt and if so explain to me why I'm an idiot please.

Anyone who is using a compressor to "make all the notes the same volume" is either using it essentially as an effect or has no idea what they're doing...a compressor allows you to tame and shape large transient dynamics, and just about every recorded bass part you've ever heard had at least one compressor in it's signal chain

While it will make the total dynamic range slightly narrower, it also allows naturally quiet things like ghost notes to speak clearly in a mix...when used properly compression adds musicality to a track and increases punch, clarity and depth, which are all good things.

 

[rmars]

Ok, so I do understand compressors, but not the way I see a lot of people use them. I see many people use them to make all the notes the same volume, but that seems a bit lame. First of all, you should be able to control your note volume, if not then you need to improve your technique. Second, if you accidentally hit something the pedal could make it more noticeable. Finally, I feel that altering note volume is an important part of bass playing, especially if you want to give your playing some personality. Even if you had a separate volume pedal there are some things that would be nearly impossible to do. That is all. Thank you for enduring my rant and share your feelings (possibly hate) below. I apologize in advance if your feelings were hurt and if so explain to me why I'm an idiot please.

I agree; you don't understand compressors. Why is the first sentence of your op, "Ok, so I do understand compressors" when you clearly don't? There are a bunch threads on this, ovnilab.com and a wealth of other info on the interweb so please feel free to educate yourself.