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I Hate My 15 inch cab

#83
cfsporn said:
I think that's the confusion. OP has the decidedly less Jaco-endorsed, Guitar Center resurected Acoustic brand amp.
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But it all makes so much sense now. That really slow, low, boomy-muffy indistinct Jaco signature tone was because of the high mass of the cones of those 15" speakers he used. No wonder you never could hear any mids or high mids in his tone.

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#84
novak7 said:
The 410 is rated for 400 watts
The 115 is rated for 150 watts
The only time I use the 15 inch cab with the exception of tonight is which the 410. The combined impedance is 4 ohms which My Behringer head only puts out 180 watts at so i couldn't imagine it would be fired. If it is fried from that then good riddance to the cab i don't want something that craps out at %75 of its rated power.
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I would ditch the Behringer head for something bigger/better.
 
#86
cfsporn said:
Didn't the 360/361 have an 18 inch speaker?
;)
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yes both the 360 and the 370 had 18"s. The 360 and 370 project like crazy, bit that is what that W box is designed to do - throw the low end out there, at the expense of throwing it right past you. A W box is a low end cabinet. If you are standing too close to it, all you hear is mids - no top and no bottom. But at least one of the W ports is about ear level, so there's that. I once used a pair of the 370 series W cabinets, and on stage, there wasn't much low end at all, but 12 feet into the audience was an entirely different story - they would rattle tables. Note Jaco is using a pair of 360's in the pic......

If you are point blank to a 15" box, it will sound very different compared to 15 feet away. I think a single 15 sounds weak on stage, but much better off stage. You want to take somebody's breath away? Use 4 15's in ported cabinets. You want to get thrown out of a club for too much bass, then use 4 15's in a rear loaded folded horn box configuration.

The issue that is being ignored is proximity. That is, a person may say a speaker sounds great, but qualify that with where he is standing in relationship to the speaker, and the size of the room. That is why some bass players like a wad of tens. As a group they have less of a beaming effect, and more evenness of sound as you move around in front of the cabinet. You may have a cabinet that is flat down to 20hz, but, when you read the specs that cite that figure take a look at where the test microphone was placed to get that figure.
 
#88
jeff7bass said:
You have a point then make it. I've been practicing for 40 years and 15" cabs require wall-shaking volume to get proper tone. Pissing off the family and/or neighbors is a silly way to practice. Heck Ampeg's little 8" combo can rattle the walls.
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Just barely ;) Sounds great for a $100 amp, though. But I would disagree about 15"s requiring lots of volume. The B-15 comes with a 25 or 30w amp and it crushes at low volumes.
 
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#89
In my small mind it seems you like the sound of 10's. I too prefer the sound of 10's for what I do. However since I'm getting older I can't move a 4x10 or I should say I refuse to so I made a concession and use a lightweight 212 cab. I have never like 15" bass cabs after hearing 10's. But this is just my opinion.
 
#92
I generally tend to go more for the sound of 10s in a sealed box (read old SVT), but I'm also super fond of my B100Rs with the stock 15". Ported/vented enclosures have become sort of a necessary evil to have in the arsenal for me, since most of my gigs are without PA support. The ported box helps to fill up a room without getting stupid loud.
FYI,I have an Acoustic B115 cab that I got cheap. Being underwhelmed with the stock driver, (and following the advice of some technically astute brethren here at TB), I got creative and ported the cab to suit an Eminence Gamma15A that I had laying around. It now has plenty of solid low end, and sounds great with most of my basses. This is not the first time that I've had cabinets / combos that were sonically deficient because of design flaws. You may want to experiment...
 
#93
I use a Hartke Hydrive 115 (sealed cab), an XL 2.5 (ported cab) and an XL 210 (sealed cab) in any and all possible configurations using a Hartke LH500.

I listen with my ears, not my eyes, so all this mixed cab nonsense is just that.

What matters far more than mixing 10 and 15 inch speakers, is the tuning of the box.

My HX115 sounds great (wonderfully warm) on its own, but has FAR more punch when I drop the 2.5 on top of it.

The 2.5 on its own is punchy as hell by itself, but when I drop the sealed 210 on top, gives me a very classic rock tone.

The 210 on the 115 smooths things out considerably and extends the upper mids nicely. But to be honest, it's my least favourite combination.

The 210 by itself does a nice job with my EUB, but the lack of extension on the bottom end means I rarely use that cabinet alone.

All that stacking them vertically does for either 2X10 cabinet, is decrease it's footprint.

My point in the end, is that once you are using quality drivers, cabinet design and tuning means infinitely more that how you mix them.
 
#95
BurningSkies said:
Everyone 'uses their ears'.

Unless you're deaf.
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If only that were true.

There's a bunch of members here who instantly dismiss anyone who uses mixed cabinets, as clearly uneducated. They look at numbers on a spread sheet and say "you are wrong for using a 4X10 and a 1X15" without ever actually listening to it.

When it's pointed out that it is the rock standard (along with the 8X10), and that most of the most influential bassists in history have used that configuration, it's poo-pooed because they aren't 'audio-engineers'. Instead of listening for ourselves, and figuring out what works for each person individually, they descend like a pack of dogs on anyone with the temerity to try something that doesn't conform to what their eyes tell them is right, not their ears.
 
#96
tfer said:
If only that were true.

There's a bunch of members here who instantly dismiss anyone who uses mixed cabinets, as clearly uneducated. They look at numbers on a spr ad sheet and say "you are wrong for using a 4X10 and a 1X15" without ever actually listening to it.

When it's pointed out that it is the rock standard (along with the 8X10), and that most of the most influential bassists in history have used that configuration, it's poo-pooed because they aren't 'audio-engineers'. Instead of listening for ourselves, and figuring out what works for each person individually, they descend like a pack of dogs on anyone with the temerity to try something that doesn't conform to what their eyes tell them is right, not their ears.
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No, there are a bunch of people who like to paint other members like that. And there are a bunch of members who like to bait players by making snide comments to that effect when it isn't even something being discussed. There are also a bunch of members who like to think that those who like matching driver rigs only pay attention to 'science' and not to their ears. Maybe it would be a great time to start being accepting of different view points, no matter whether you like mixed drivers or not.

If you do a google search for "you are wrong for using a 4X10 and a 1X15" you will find exactly ZERO hits on the internet.

"you are wrong for using a 4X10 and a 1X15" - Google Search
 
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#97
BurningSkies said:
Everyone 'uses their ears'.

Unless you're deaf.
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Um, I use my left buttock to hear sub 60Hz stuff.

tfer said:
If only that were true.

There's a bunch of members here who instantly dismiss anyone who uses mixed cabinets, as clearly uneducated. They look at numbers on a spread sheet and say "you are wrong for using a 4X10 and a 1X15" without ever actually listening to it.

When it's pointed out that it is the rock standard (along with the 8X10), and that most of the most influential bassists in history have used that configuration, it's poo-pooed because they aren't 'audio-engineers'. Instead of listening for ourselves, and figuring out what works for each person individually, they descend like a pack of dogs on anyone with the temerity to try something that doesn't conform to what their eyes tell them is right, not their ears.
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I played a few 4x10 over 1x15 stacks, and was never happy with how I sounded. Especially when I wasn't directly in front of the stack. I never knew why I prefered how they sounded with the 1x15 unplugged until I started reading Talkbass.

By the way, it the mixed stack really a "rock standard" on the same level as the 8x10? I don't think it is, but perhaps if I had been alive in the 80s, I'd view it as such.
 
#98
I sound check wirelessly. I get off the stage, and out to where our audience is.

Once we as a band are happy with our sound, I stop worrying about how it sounds onstage.

Like I posted, I'm happiest with my sound using a 15" underneath my 2.5. Nice big, tight bass with punch. Coincidentally, both cabinets share the exact same surface area for drivers (176.625 square inches).

I'm not going to argue whether beaming is a problem, or whether comb-filtering is detrimental. I'm simply saying, use whatever it is that appeals to your ears, and forget what a chart tells you that you should hear.

If it sounds good, it is.
 
#99
tfer said:
I sound check wirelessly. I get off the stage, and out to where our audience is.

Once we as a band are happy with our sound, I stop worrying about how it sounds onstage.

Like I posted, I'm happiest with my sound using a 15" underneath my 2.5. Nice big, tight bass with punch. Coincidentally, both cabinets share the exact same surface area for drivers (176.625 square inches).

I'm not going to argue whether beaming is a problem, or whether comb-filtering is detrimental. I'm simply saying, use whatever it is that appeals to your ears, and forget what a chart tells you that you should hear.

If it sounds good, it is.
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Yet you're still putting words into peoples mouths. No one in this thread is discussing charts. You're the first person to mention comb filtering. I went back and read through it again just to be sure. You're arguing stuff from either other threads or the past. You're stereotyping 'people who aren't like you' when it comes to gear choices do so because of what they've read rather than giving anyone the benefit of the doubt that they're listening with their ears.
 
#100
Sigh.

Within the first handful of posts, the OP is told he's wrong for mixing driver sizes at least 4 times.

I did bring up comb-filtering because it's one of the arguments that the driver size police keep mentioning - not on this thread, but I could link multiple other that do.

I go back to my argument - if it sounds good - it is.

I'm simply telling the OP to find what works for him, regardless of what he's read on the Internet. Experiment until you find your sound, and don't be surprised if what you like changes. I've stumbled across a gear setup that keeps me happy 95% of the time.

The other 5% I just ignore. ;)

By mixing what I've got, I have 2 different 2X10 configurations, a 4X10 cab, a 1X15 cab, 2 different stacked using 2X10 and a 1X15, and when I get around to adding another LH 500, a 4X10 1X15 stack.

It works for me - it might not for you.

But find what does, and be happy.
 
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