I just pulled the trigger on an XR18

[walterw]

Walter, that late-fader thing might have more to do with network traffic and speed than the quality of your tablet. I've been there with the 6-8 second fader delay problems. Pretty maddening!

As everyone does, and if you guys aren't already, an external router is a must! Why did they bother with an internal router if they weren't going to implement it properly?

I'm just guessing on this from afar, but I use the 5ghz range on my router and iPad.

nah, the thing is slow just by itself doing anything. fader lag is like a second, which is forever when you're pedaling an open bass string with your other hand

i had been using my ipad air just for my own monitors, and that responded nice and quick; it was just silly to drag that big, fragile, expensive thing out, and too tempting to exceed my authority and start tweaking the FOH mix

the 'droid supports "x-air Q", which is a monitors-only app, nice and easy.

our guy was using a stank sisco 2.4G router which worked fine, and then upgraded to an apple airport something with the dual-band deal; at first he couldn't get the apple to behave and went back to the sisco, but it seemed to work itself out to where he used the apple at the last two gigs with no problem. (my "fisher-price" tablet won't do 5G, oh well.)

 

[walterw]

• Turn OFF SSID broadcast - the band members should know the network name. Make it simple, like the band name.
• Use WPA2 security - more to prevent accidental connections than prevent hacking!
• Set your main gateway mask to something other than 192.168.1.* - this is default on most Class C networks and the one most looked for when scanning. Use 192.168.13.* or something.
• Use DHCP for IEM/FOH devices, but assign a static IP to the mixer.
• Unless you are frequently working in large rooms, stick with the default 2dBi antennas. Going with a 9dBi will increase the range, but flatten the signal and cause connectivity issues with those close to the router. Not good for musicians if the router is stage side!

PS: One can also set up a WAP with a switch and get the same results...

i wish i knew what all these words meant...

"turning off SSID" means that the network won't show up on the wi-fi list on your device? you have to type it in to find it?

dunno what a "gateway mask" is, but i do know our mixer's "number" was very different than the "192.whatever" thing, i recall there being a "10" in there.

so the boosted up wi-fi antennas have problems up close? good to know.

 

[s0c9]

i wish i knew what all these words meant...
"turning off SSID" means that the network won't show up on the wi-fi list on your device? you have to type it in to find it?

Yes, the router will NOT broadcast the network name, so band members will need to KNOW the name, the FIRST time they connect. After that most "devices" will retain the settings and automatically connect to that network when it's in range and active!

dunno what a "gateway mask" is, but i do know our mixer's "number" was very different than the "192.whatever" thing, i recall there being a "10" in there.

It's setting up the default IP address ranges on your router. Routers run Class C private networks. Those IP address ranges are 192.168.*.* and 10.*.*.* There is one other (172.16.*.* - 172.31.*.*), but I've hardly ever seen it used.

Most routers default to the 192.168.*.* range, using 192.168.1.1 as the starting point (and default router IP address) giving you 254 available IP's - or available device connection slots - in that range. For a typical home (or band) local network, this is plenty. Wireless scans look for networks broadcasting the SSID [name] and tend to assume that 192.168.1.1 is the connection point IP address. This means your router is handling pings (connection attempts) W-A-Y more times than it needs to in the average bar/club/venue with all those "smart" phones scanning for open networks!!
If you change that base IP address to 192.168.xxx.* (where xxx = 002 -> 255, eg: 192.168.13.*) and turn off SSID broadcast, your router will not need to handle random access traffic and focus on servicing the connected devices.

so the boosted up wi-fi antennas have problems up close? good to know.

Yes, the 2dBi antennas have a "square" [ ] shaped reception/transmission structure. Think average 2-story home coverage. This flattens out and elongates in conical shape (<-- -->) as you increase the antenna gain up thru 12dBi. It increases overall transmission range, but can adversely impact connectivity of devices located close to the router, or just above (2nd floor?) of the wave plane.

 

[walterw]

If you change that base IP address to 192.168.xxx.* (where xxx = 002 -> 255, eg: 192.168.13.*) and turn off SSID broadcast, your router will not need to handle random access traffic and focus on servicing the connected devices.

awesome, thank you.

 

[oyobass]

the immediate one for gigging is to go to "routing" up top there, go to "aux outputs", then reset all of the monitor aux send buttons over on the right from "post fader" to "input", or maybe even "analog", so as to not have the out-front guy's fader, EQ and especially compression settings affect the monitors.

(this is on the ipad, the 'droid and laptop configuration might be different.)

This is a great tip. Why this is not a factory setting is beyond me...

 

[popgadget]

We use an XR18 with a Netgear 5g router connected via cat 5 cable. A ThinkPad 410 connected via Ethernet cable to the router controls it, also records all 16 tracks plus main L&R via USB. The recording is done with Audacity (home built with ASIO support). iPads connected via 5g WIFI control 6 monitor mixes.

This setup has been rock solid, unlike trying to connect even one device via the onboard WIFI. Router is setup for DHCP, none of the devices have a fixed IP, SSID is not broadcast, and WPA2 encryption is used.
Using this setup, there is no latency between the devices and the XR18. With the onboard WIFI, you would need a calendar to measure it.

 

[walterw]

OK, the thread's been bumped so an excuse to revisit:

i ditched the fisher-price irulu tablet and scored a nice used samsung galaxy tab 4 7" for like $85, and it's way better.

far brighter and sharper screen that's visible from an angle, way faster boot-up, will do 5G wi-fi, and significantly faster response time from all apps, including the X-air.

i do notice that the X-air Q app is still a little laggy on the faders, while the straight-up X-air app faders respond nice and fast; makes me think it's just a difference in the quality of the code-writing of the two apps.

i've decided to start just using the full X-air app for my monitors, once i finally figured out how to get to my monitor mix screen ("sends on faders", bus#__, not very easy to discover). i can even set the faders to "fine", so they move more slowly for a given distance of finger travel; perfect for quick monitor mix tweaks between notes.

 

[chubfarm2001]

Ill give an update as well.

I've been extremely happy with the XR18. I can't say enough great things about it. I did a live tracking recording with the Tracktion software that comes with it, and it sounds really good.

I am still learning the routing. I may be doing things a little wonky, but my routing for the aux's is post fader. It seems that my bandmates cannot adjust the overall level of their monitor unless I set it there. I just have them connect to their bus # when they fire up the app (android). I have tried the more common configurations, and the control was very limited. Maybe I'm doing something wrong still.

I still have yet to try the FX sections. I'm in the bands I use the XR18 with, so I haven't been out front during a set to really play with them yet. I hear great things about the combinators, so I'm pretty curious.

 

[Frankjohnson]

I just sold some things, and am purchasing a 2nd xr18 as a true backup should I need it. Funny - I have an Irulu tablet too......works fine, but a better one would be ....well....better. I also use a laptop, and ALWAYS keep two points of connectivity.

Still learning this thing, but really like it, and it is so much easier to put in place than a rack of stuff and a snake.

ringing out monitors is SO easy and the RTA is so helpful. I have a friend who just got one too, and has been coming over to shows to get hands on to expedite his "experience" with it. I am glad to offer it to him, and he has shown me some things too.

I have considered rack mounting it - I run it more like a stage snake right now....I think I will fabricate or engineer something to make it work better for me.

 

[s0c9]

The wireless "speed" diff between my aging iPad 2nd Gen and my newer Galaxy Tab S - is significant. The latter is FAR faster, has almost no drops, and stays connected to our X32 Producer (for IEM mixing) W-A-Y better than the iPad... it's unrelated to the network.. so yes, the device matters.. LOL

 

[Frankjohnson]

That makes all kinds of sense -

I used mine for 8-10 blues jams - all with different host bands, before I ran a "show" with it - just to get my feet wet first.
I am glad I did. I was able to work out some things fairly well.

That said - I have a couple of cool ones coming up and am getting psyched for it.
I believe that this is a good tool, and it fits my needs really well.

I sold My mixwiz and rack, and most of the rack gear. In fact, I got a little more than I paid for the mixwiz after a year and a half. not unheard of...... (Bought both new used as a set)

 

[walterw]

I am still learning the routing. I may be doing things a little wonky, but my routing for the aux's is post fader. It seems that my bandmates cannot adjust the overall level of their monitor unless I set it there.

yeah, that ain't right. your out front tweaks will mess them up, and (not sure about this) their own tweaks might mess you up out front!
[edit: i'm wrong here, that just messes up the aux output controls! tweaking the aux sends has to happen in the X-air edit program on a PC.]
you should be able to set them to "input" and have them work right. on their device, if they hold it sideways (i.e., "portrait" instead of "landscape") i think it'll bring up the master level fader for their aux.

(edit: yep! on the x-air Q app, hold the phone or tab vertically, and you'll get a bunch of tiles for different channels, which you can select for the four "MCA" faders; swipe left and you'll get a master fader for your mix.

i'll have to check out these "MCA"s, it looks like they're a VCA/DCA kind of thing, where i could condense my mix down to the four faders, say one drums, one guitars, one my vox and the other my bass. pretty dang cool.)

 

[s0c9]

I am still learning the routing. I may be doing things a little wonky, but my routing for the aux's is post fader. It seems that my bandmates cannot adjust the overall level of their monitor unless I set it there.

yeah, that ain't right. your out front tweaks will mess them up, and (not sure about this) their own tweaks might mess you up out front!

For some reason POST FADER seems to be the default setting for AUX and output BUSSES on the X32 series, and I "assume" the XR (?) .. .
I hesitate to admit that we've been running our like that for quite some time - about 2 yrs now. Last gig we had a sound guy out and singer complained that he was pushing his voice and couldn't get more "me" [him] in his IEM mix. The sound guy in me instantly questioned whether the sound guy had put compression on his vocals. Well, OK, but that shouldn't affect the IEM mix, right? Well, unless you feeding your mixes post fader..!!!
So we dug around between sets and looked at the 16 output busses, and sure 'nuf, the stereo IEM mix busses were set to POST Fader - just like the main L/R outs (which should be set like that). We didn't mess with/change it as we weren't entirely sure of the impact to our IEM's and control devices. On the X32 I believe they should be set to "PreFdr" to get EQ and pre-effect sends to the busses.
We're off this week but will try it at our gig next Friday night.

 

[walterw]

On the X32 I believe they should be set to "PreFdr" to get EQ and pre-effect sends to the busses.

i think you want to go "further up" than that, to keep the EQ and channel comp out of the monitors. they call that setting "input" on the XR18, not sure about the X-32.

 

[s0c9]

i think you want to go "further up" than that, to keep the EQ and channel comp out of the monitors. they call that setting "input" on the XR18, not sure about the X-32.

The problem with doing that (that I see) is that you then get raw input feeds to the IEM mix.. on stereo (linked) busses, one is pan, and the other has the standard X32 features.. EQ, comp, and insert effects.. but at the buss level.
I believe we want to be post eq, pre-effect, pre-fader... so we can control effect levels via the effects buss foldback.. ??

 

[kittywithabanjo]

Any of you wish you had gone for the xr32? Or are there enough channels for most live applications

 

[walterw]

Any of you wish you had gone for the xr32? Or are there enough channels for most live applications

as i see it, the channel count of the XR18 is as big as you can go and mix yourselves on stage. any bigger and you need to get a guy. (at which point the 32 might be awesome, stereo in-ears for everybody!)

 

[oyobass]

Any of you wish you had gone for the xr32? Or are there enough channels for most live applications

Sure, I wish I had gone for the X 32 Rack... But the XR18 works well and fits a budget (I didn't really) follow.
To put it plainly, I spent way more than I had, and got way more than I paid for...

 

[FuturePrimitive]

Any of you wish you had gone for the xr32? Or are there enough channels for most live applications

I sometimes think about getting an X32 Producer, the additional channels and features would be cool, and I love "real" sliders. I also think my other band members (none have digital mixer experience) would adjust to it better.

Until I think about having to house it in something. The size vs. capability ratio of the XR18 is one of its greatest features. For a guy that has strived to slim down his load in/out, its one of the greatest changes I've made since replacing my Avatar B210+B212+6U rack with an LMIII and single Markbass NY151 cab.

 

[kittywithabanjo]

I am looking at replacing my 1604vlz (and allt other rack components) so considering my options.