I made the logical decision, right? Compressors, again!

[boomertech]

...is there an EQ change or is it the type of compression?

It could be an EQ change or distortion of the waveform during compression.

If the control signal for the compression cell has AC ripple from the input signal it will cause second and third order harmonic distortions in the output signal. This effect is less from an optical comp in higher frequencies because of the limited "bandwidth" of the optical cell, whereas FET, OTA and VCA are lightning fast and capable of second and third order distortions across the entire audio band.

Some comps distort the signal waveform by the compression process or just by the internal amplification.

Some comps may impart a non-flat EQ curve while compressing. This naturally happens with multi-band compression. With multi-band compression the EQ curve is dynamic as each comp is doing its business.

Some comps have side-chain EQ curves. This allows the comp to react to different freq bands for boosted or cut frequencies. Think of it as an EQ threshold modifier.

Some compressors have a natural characteristic tone with its internal amplification (even when not compressing). 1176 was famous for sound engineers just using the unit as a signal favoring without compressing.

A full-band comp can sound like it has a high frequency tone suck with heavy compression. Although the compression is flat across the audio spectrum, we humans will perceive less highs because the compressor is mainly acting on the low frequency energy within the audio signal.

-Frank

 

[blindrabbit]

I actually like the tilt EQ quite a bit. I can make really quick adjustments to the tone if I needed to. But I like the sound of the EQ at 900 with the EQ knob rolled down to about 11. Of course live it will probably be completely different.

Yes, this is the exact EQ setting I used to use. A nice gentle tilt away from the high mids...perfection.

 

[Jim C]

It could be an EQ change or distortion of the waveform during compression.

If the control signal for the compression cell has AC ripple from the input signal it will cause second and third order harmonic distortions in the output signal. This effect is less from an optical comp in higher frequencies because of the limited "bandwidth" of the optical cell, whereas FET, OTA and VCA are lightning fast and capable of second and third order distortions across the entire audio band.

Some comps distort the signal waveform by the compression process or just by the internal amplification.

Some comps may impart a non-flat EQ curve while compressing. This naturally happens with multi-band compression. With multi-band compression the EQ curve is dynamic as each comp is doing its business.

Some comps have side-chain EQ curves. This allows the comp to react to different freq bands for boosted or cut frequencies. Think of it as an EQ threshold modifier.

Some compressors have a natural characteristic tone with its internal amplification (even when not compressing). 1176 was famous for sound engineers just using the unit as a signal favoring without compressing.

A full-band comp can sound like it has a high frequency tone suck with heavy compression. Although the compression is flat across the audio spectrum, we humans will perceive less highs because the compressor is mainly acting on the low frequency energy within the audio signal.

Hey Frank,
Thanks for this.
Agreed the 1176 might have had some top end roll off but it wasn't that severe.
If you set it ran a signal generator at 1K and used the console VU meter to look at levels signal frequencies from say 100 Hz to 8kHz, the difference wasn't that large. (or at least as I remember).
I think some of these MI compressor screw up frequency range purely based on components and design VS. cost.
Good point about distortion or changes is the wave form other than amplitude; I never considered that.

Question about: "This effect is less from an optical comp in higher frequencies because of the limited "bandwidth" of the optical cell, whereas FET, OTA and VCA are lightning fast and capable of second and third order distortions across the entire audio band."
I am assuming that you are talking about MI gear and not pro audio gear; correct?

As a manufacturer, you may choose not to comment but I will ask anyway.
Everybody's got an opinion!
Let's say the test samples are MB Compressor, Empress, Diamond, Keeley Bassist, and your Opti Fet.
Can you comment if you see / hear much change in program EQ, or more distortion, artifacts, or just generally muck up the signal more from one unit to the other?

 

[boomertech]

Question about: "This effect is less from an optical comp in higher frequencies because of the limited "bandwidth" of the optical cell, whereas FET, OTA and VCA are lightning fast and capable of second and third order distortions across the entire audio band."
I am assuming that you are talking about MI gear and not pro audio gear; correct?

If you have signal bleed-thru on the gain cell control voltage or control current it will cause frequency multiplication. This can happen with most analog compressors MI or pro. Remember that the older pro gear with leaky old electrolytic caps have loads of ripple... in this particular part of the circuit it equates to sonic charm. Opto cells naturally filter high frequency changes, so the bleed-thru multiplication effect will only be occurring for the lower frequencies. The multiplication effect adds frequencies that were not in the original signal. The strongest of these frequencies is the second harmonic, which is a musically pleasing thickening effect. If this multiplication effect occurs in higher frequencies the effect is a jangle-y or crispy tone.​

As a manufacturer, you may choose not to comment but I will ask anyway.
Everybody's got an opinion!
Let's say the test samples are MB Compressor, Empress, Diamond, Keeley Bassist, and your Opti Fet.
Can you comment if you see / hear much change in program EQ, or more distortion, artifacts, or just generally muck up the signal more from one unit to the other?

Out of your list, I am only real familiar with the Opti-FET. I just got a Diamond BCP-1 yesterday to play around with and to familiarize myself with it. At this time I have only run test signals thru it and still need to feed it some audio. I don't usually do side-by-side comparisons. What I like to do if I hear something interesting or horrible is analyze the signal to see/understand what I am hearing.​

-Frank

 

[willsellout]

So the FEA arrived today and I had just about 30 minutes to test it out. I put all the compressors in a line and started swapping and switching. The Diamond sounds great...I can't say that enough. But it kind of adds more low end to my already low heavy Tbird. The EQ helps with that and I can get some really in depth sounds with it. I really need to hear this in a band context. I still really really like this pedal. A lot.

The Empress is cleaner and it seems to clean up the Tbird a bit and adds it's own little something to my sound. It has a lot of volume on tap and I maybe had a little bit of a hard time finding unity with it. The sound is terrific, the flexibility is awesome, and the metering is really really useful. I love this thing. It's awesome. Tons of potential.

The FEA. Wow. Where do I start. Man this pedal is on another level, build quality-wise. Im constantly impressed with how damned sturdy these things are. I still have a LOT of work to do with this one but my overall impressions are that it is much more polite, more even, and more refined. The sound of the compression is so natural and organic sounding. Im still trying to figure out how exactly the EQ cutoff knobs works exactly and still tweaking the ratio and threshold knobs a bit. I haven't scratched the surface on this pedal but man I am impressed.

I still really love all of these pedals but I am leaning towards the Empress and the FEA right now. The Diamond isn't out though. I spent a lot of time with it and I could see a use for it. I think my favorite right now is the Empress because it has so much potential and for it's ease of use, but that very well may change as I work with the FEA. I will be honest and say that I found the manual a little lacking, but there is plenty of information on the internet on it, so it's not a big deal.

More to follow.

 

[Red Planet]

So the thing I like about the Diamond is the gorgeous sheen it puts on the tone of my bass. I used to use Stingray classics and after having two spinal surgeries I had to find a lighter solution. After acceidently running across a Limited Edition G&L LB-100 Empress bass I had found my solution and while the G&L sounds good it doesnt have that sheen of the Stingray.

So the Diamond makes the G&L sound more like my old Classic and that is just a big plus.

Also after the notes go through the Diamond they are then dripping with honey.

And the coolest thing about the Diamond is its nice and simple.

 

[boomertech]

I will be honest and say that I found the manual a little lacking, but there is plenty of information on the internet on it, so it's not a big deal.

What is lacking in the manual?

-Frank

 

[willsellout]

What is lacking in the manual?

-Frank

I'll PM you what I liked and didn't like. The manual does what it is supposed to do. I think it would be cool to have a couple other things in it though. But like I said, I'll PM you.

 

[willsellout]

And the coolest thing about the Diamond is its nice and simple.

Absolutely. It's a killer pedal!

 

[willsellout]

This has been really tough, I'll be honest. I figured I'd have a clear winner by the end of this but I don't. Each of these compressors has great things about them that the others don't. The actual compression is different in all of them as well. Here is what my ears are telling me, what I like about each of the pedals, and finally, which one I've decided to keep around:

Diamond BCP-1:
What a great little pedal. It is dead simple and it sounds great at most settings. No noticeable noise I could hear even at extreme settings. My ears tell me it adds some low end, some low mid fatness, and some sheen on the top end that makes it very pleasing to the ear. it reminds me a lot of an Eden amp. The tilt EQ is intuitive, the compression isn't overpowering (obviously) and the tilt switch is useful as well. Build quality is excellent. By far, the Diamond was the compressor that sounded the best with my MBD-1.

Empress:
Amazing pedal. I love it. It seems to add more clarity to everything, it's not as warm as the BCP-1 but it does add it's own sound. I felt it added punch to my playing and with the output, you could use this as a boost if you wanted. The meter is awesome and very useful. And although it has a blend I kept it mostly wet all the time, so for me that's not that big of a thing. It's a very simple compressor to use and I love that their manual is simple to understand and that it has sample settings to start you off with. The Empress and the Diamond are both very user friendly.

FEA DB-CL:
This pedal is a monster. It's very intimidating at first and I found the manual very technical. For a novice I don't think the manual would be super useful. But then again, I wouldn't imagine there are many novices buying Frank's pedals. I knew how everything worked so I jumped right in. I found this not near as complicated as it looks. It's definitely the most transparent of all the pedals I tried. It takes your sound and just makes it better. I found the action to be smoother and more organic than the other two pedals. It has a ton of controls and possibilities but it never sounds bad, no matter what you do. It's an incredibly well designed and executed pedal. There's still a lot of ground to cover with this pedal.

My results:
I realized I don't want the tone enhancing of the Diamond. So sadly, the Diamond is out. That leaves the Empress and the FEA. I'd love to keep both of these. They are both different enough to justify keeping if I were so inclined, but I'm not. I like the added clarity of the Empress, I love the metering, and I love how simple it is to use. I love the flexibility of the FEA, I love the organic and smooth action and tone of the compressor and I especially love the build quality. It's absolutely overkill for what I need but it's the best of the bunch for me overall. So I think I will be keeping the FEA and returning or selling the other two.

This was awesome for me. I had a blast and learned a lot. There are no bad compressors here. They are all great it really just depends on what you want, and that is the reason why I bought all three to go head to head to figure out what I wanted from a compressor. I hope it's been fun reading and informative for you guys, I know it was for me.

 

[blindrabbit]

This has been really tough, I'll be honest. I figured I'd have a clear winner by the end of this but I don't. Each of these compressors has great things about them that the others don't. The actual compression is different in all of them as well. Here is what my ears are telling me, what I like about each of the pedals, and finally, which one I've decided to keep around:

Diamond BCP-1:
What a great little pedal. It is dead simple and it sounds great at most settings. No noticeable noise I could hear even at extreme settings. My ears tell me it adds some low end, some low mid fatness, and some sheen on the top end that makes it very pleasing to the ear. it reminds me a lot of an Eden amp. The tilt EQ is intuitive, the compression isn't overpowering (obviously) and the tilt switch is useful as well. Build quality is excellent. By far, the Diamond was the compressor that sounded the best with my MBD-1.

Empress:
Amazing pedal. I love it. It seems to add more clarity to everything, it's not as warm as the BCP-1 but it does add it's own sound. I felt it added punch to my playing and with the output, you could use this as a boost if you wanted. The meter is awesome and very useful. And although it has a blend I kept it mostly wet all the time, so for me that's not that big of a thing. It's a very simple compressor to use and I love that their manual is simple to understand and that it has sample settings to start you off with. The Empress and the Diamond are both very user friendly.

FEA DB-CL:
This pedal is a monster. It's very intimidating at first and I found the manual very technical. For a novice I don't think the manual would be super useful. But then again, I wouldn't imagine there are many novices buying Frank's pedals. I knew how everything worked so I jumped right in. I found this not near as complicated as it looks. It's definitely the most transparent of all the pedals I tried. It takes your sound and just makes it better. I found the action to be smoother and more organic than the other two pedals. It has a ton of controls and possibilities but it never sounds bad, no matter what you do. It's an incredibly well designed and executed pedal. There's still a lot of ground to cover with this pedal.

My results:
I realized I don't want the tone enhancing of the Diamond. So sadly, the Diamond is out. That leaves the Empress and the FEA. I'd love to keep both of these. They are both different enough to justify keeping if I were so inclined, but I'm not. I like the added clarity of the Empress, I love the metering, and I love how simple it is to use. I love the flexibility of the FEA, I love the organic and smooth action and tone of the compressor and I especially love the build quality. It's absolutely overkill for what I need but it's the best of the bunch for me overall. So I think I will be keeping the FEA and returning or selling the other two.

This was awesome for me. I had a blast and learned a lot. There are no bad compressors here. They are all great it really just depends on what you want, and that is the reason why I bought all three to go head to head to figure out what I wanted from a compressor. I hope it's been fun reading and informative for you guys, I know it was for me.

Nice review.

I've owned a Diamond, an Empress, and an Opti-Fet (along with a few other comps, including a DB-CL), and this is a really nice run down of them. My differing opinion would be that I loved the tonal enhancement of the Diamond, and found the Empress to be outstanding clinically and easy to use - a great first comp for anyone, really - but added no magic. In the end, I stuck with my Opti-Fet, as it gave all the fantastic features of the FEA line along with a good dose of the tonal magic of the Diamond. For my purposes and needs, it was a better choice than the DB-CL, but I can also see how others would make the opposite choice. I've not tried a DE-CL though...that might be "the best of both worlds", so to speak.

Anyway, point is - excellent review and information, and congrats on your choice!

 

[Jim C]

willsellout,
Thanks very much for this; great review.
Just a shot in the dark but do you have any experience with the Keeley Bassist or the Mark Bass Compressore?
I am curious as to how they stack up as these are the 5 compressors I'm deciding between.

 

[kat888]

After A/B testing the BCP-1 with and without the EQ circuit engaged, it definitely has more of that magic fairy dust quality with the EQ circuit engaged and the tilt 'flat', than it does with the EQ bypassed.

 

[willsellout]

Nice review.

I've owned a Diamond, an Empress, and an Opti-Fet (along with a few other comps, including a DB-CL), and this is a really nice run down of them. My differing opinion would be that I loved the tonal enhancement of the Diamond, and found the Empress to be outstanding clinical and easy to use - a great first comp for anyone, really - but added no magic. In the end, I stuck with my Opti-Fet, as it gave all the fantastic features of the FEA line along with a good dose of the tonal magic of the Diamond. For my purposes and needs, it was a better choice than the DB-CL, but I can also see how others would make the opposite choice. I've not tried a DE-CL though...that might be "the best of both worlds", so to speak.

Anyway, point is - excellent review and information, and congrats on your choice!

I think your clinical and my clarity might be the same thing for the Empress, just with different words. I really did love all these compressors and absolutely understand why the Diamond is so loved. It’s killer. I’d keep all of these pedals if I could.

 

[willsellout]

willsellout,
Thanks very much for this; great review.
Just a shot in the dark but do you have any experience with the Keeley Bassist or the Mark Bass Compressore?
I am curious as to how they stack up as these are the 5 compressors I'm deciding between.

I don’t, unfortunately. Sorry.

 

[Jim C]

It could be an EQ change or distortion of the waveform during compression.

If the control signal for the compression cell has AC ripple from the input signal it will cause second and third order harmonic distortions in the output signal. This effect is less from an optical comp in higher frequencies because of the limited "bandwidth" of the optical cell, whereas FET, OTA and VCA are lightning fast and capable of second and third order distortions across the entire audio band.
-Frank

Hey Frank,
Been thinking about your post regarding the possibility that some of the "magic" that certain compressors have is due to 2nd order (or octave) harmonics.

Here is a quote from the ad copy for the Neve DI:
"The transformers provide superior passive isolation while adding musical harmonics and dimension to the sound."

"The significance of the RNDI’s class-A design is that there is no crossover distortion added to the signal, which can add upper order odd harmonics to the sound that are musically dissonant in nature."

"With the RNDI, the overwhelming majority of harmonic content is 2nd order (octave) with some 3rd order present (fifth above octave). These musically relevant harmonics – present in subtle amounts – actually add to the richness of the original signal."

The first real pro studio I worked at had a Neve console with 1081 EQ's.
Big transformer mic pre's that did warm up the sound.

Is it possible to build a device that adds 2nd order harmonics not as an effect but rather a thickening and sweetening tool?
Or, am I reading too much into this 2nd harmonic thing and is it really more distortion than signal?
TIA

 

[boomertech]

Hey Frank,.....

Is it possible to build a device that adds 2nd order harmonics not as an effect but rather a thickening and sweetening tool?
Or, am I reading too much into this 2nd harmonic thing and is it really more distortion than signal?
TIA

Yes, there are ways to generate a second harmonic. The FEA Growler's main purpose was to generate a second. Here is the manual if you're interested (Look at FFT plots on page 5):
http://www.fealabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/GROWLER-0001-Printable.pdf
I liked very subtle amounts of the second harmonic otherwise it sounds too synthetic for me.

-Frank

 

[JimmyM]

Yes, there are ways to generate a second harmonic. The FEA Growler's main purpose was to generate a second. Here is the manual if your interested (Look at FFT plots on page 5):
http://www.fealabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/GROWLER-0001-Printable.pdf
I liked very subtle amounts of the second harmonic otherwise it sounds too synthetic for me.

-Frank

I agree, and I believe that's why octave pedals can sometimes get a bad rap when you use them to simulate an 8-string bass or a 12 string guitar. The upper octave is always quieter than the bottom. Turn it down to where it's about 60-70% of the lower octave and it can pass a lot easier.

 

[willsellout]

Well since this thread got bumped back up I'll post a bit of an update. Since my last post I have taken both the Diamond and the Empress out at different times to do side by side comparisons with the FEA and Im beginning to like the FEA more and more. It's really, to me, on a whole other level than the Empress and the Diamond. I still really like the both of the other pedals, although after giving it some time I am enjoying the Diamond more right now and the Empress less. To my ears the FEA can get that same sweetness that the Diamond provides and if I work the controls a bit I can get that clarity that the Empress has, but with both the FEA has a a more natural and organic action and just sounds bigger without being boomy, obviously. I still really love all of these pedals and I am looking for a reason to keep one of the other compressors I guess, but at this point everything can be handled by the FEA. It's honestly making me rethink my DE-CL purchase a little bit, but honestly I'd love to have both the DB and DE side by side.

 

[Spidey2112]

This has been really tough, I'll be honest. I figured I'd have a clear winner by the end of this but I don't. Each of these compressors has great things about them that the others don't. The actual compression is different in all of them as well. Here is what my ears are telling me, what I like about each of the pedals, and finally, which one I've decided to keep around:

Diamond BCP-1:
What a great little pedal. It is dead simple and it sounds great at most settings. No noticeable noise I could hear even at extreme settings. My ears tell me it adds some low end, some low mid fatness, and some sheen on the top end that makes it very pleasing to the ear. it reminds me a lot of an Eden amp. The tilt EQ is intuitive, the compression isn't overpowering (obviously) and the tilt switch is useful as well. Build quality is excellent. By far, the Diamond was the compressor that sounded the best with my MBD-1.

Empress:
Amazing pedal. I love it. It seems to add more clarity to everything, it's not as warm as the BCP-1 but it does add it's own sound. I felt it added punch to my playing and with the output, you could use this as a boost if you wanted. The meter is awesome and very useful. And although it has a blend I kept it mostly wet all the time, so for me that's not that big of a thing. It's a very simple compressor to use and I love that their manual is simple to understand and that it has sample settings to start you off with. The Empress and the Diamond are both very user friendly.

FEA DB-CL:
This pedal is a monster. It's very intimidating at first and I found the manual very technical. For a novice I don't think the manual would be super useful. But then again, I wouldn't imagine there are many novices buying Frank's pedals. I knew how everything worked so I jumped right in. I found this not near as complicated as it looks. It's definitely the most transparent of all the pedals I tried. It takes your sound and just makes it better. I found the action to be smoother and more organic than the other two pedals. It has a ton of controls and possibilities but it never sounds bad, no matter what you do. It's an incredibly well designed and executed pedal. There's still a lot of ground to cover with this pedal.

My results:
I realized I don't want the tone enhancing of the Diamond. So sadly, the Diamond is out. That leaves the Empress and the FEA. I'd love to keep both of these. They are both different enough to justify keeping if I were so inclined, but I'm not. I like the added clarity of the Empress, I love the metering, and I love how simple it is to use. I love the flexibility of the FEA, I love the organic and smooth action and tone of the compressor and I especially love the build quality. It's absolutely overkill for what I need but it's the best of the bunch for me overall. So I think I will be keeping the FEA and returning or selling the other two.

This was awesome for me. I had a blast and learned a lot. There are no bad compressors here. They are all great it really just depends on what you want, and that is the reason why I bought all three to go head to head to figure out what I wanted from a compressor. I hope it's been fun reading and informative for you guys, I know it was for me.

Thanks for the review, and the effort, @willsellout!