I made up my mind: I prefer lined fretless.

[Papageno]

I use finger replacement to find my first note on upright. For instance to play C# on the G string, I can reliably find 4th position (D) with my 1st finger, replace it with my 2nd and the C# is just there. With bass guitar, I have to look. I don't have the same guideposts.

Sure, I also use finger replacement, and use all possible physical clues (nut, neck heel, continuous contact with the neck, etc.) as much as I can when I play.

Yet, what I wanted to demonstrate the simple exercise is that, even without any starting reference (hence the step where the arm is droped so that the hand is not at all in contact with the neck before finding the note), muscle memory can learn (and actually learn quite rapidly) how to play in tune a given note on the neck.

With the additional help of physical cues, one can do even better.

 

[Jaribu]

As a youngster, I mentioned to Bob Collins (principal bassist for the Windsor Symphony) that I felt I was becoming more accurate. He quickly corrected me by saying I was becoming "less inaccurate".

 

[Papageno]

I pretty much never plan on playing in a dark room or blindfolded though so it's not really something that I'm concerned about in the long run.

The objective of such exercises is of course not to play concerts in dark rooms.

But it can contribute to train the ear and the muscle memory, improve intonation and give more confidence.

 

[bucephylus]

It's been said doublebass is one of the easiest instruments in the orchestra to play passably well, but one of the most difficult to master.
I asked one of Bob Gladstone's (DSO Principal bassist) students many years ago of what his last lesson consisted. He said "F#".

+1

I actually studied with Bob for several years. My first teacher. Many of his students didn't exactly buy into his shift exercises. I still have them in one of my workbooks. Bob was definitely a Master. He is missed.

 

[Jaribu]

View attachment 3950795
This is how my Ibby Portamento 5 string came. It's just enough to keep me in tune. My guitarist hates it because he can never tell where I'm at on the Fret board

I see you indeed have lines on the side of the fingerboard.

 

[Jaribu]

LOVE my blank plank '77 Ripper!
Only bass I ever bought brand new from Kalamazoo to replace a stolen fretless '64 EB-3. Like Jaco I tore the frets out in a very bad manner and filled in with wood putty.

Started on double bass in orchestra in grade school, so didn't really need to adjust. When playing jazz in HS/college eyes were on the paper, so couldn't be looking at the board. Same with playing jazzy combo gigs.

Was my main bass for rock 60s-70s. I didn't do a whole lot of swoopy mwah stuff. And in rock you don't have paper on stage, but your eyes have to be on the crowd. People couldn't really tell I was playing fretless. Didn't have a fretted bass 'til 1980 when I needed a fretted bass for funk toons, so bought a used Fender P. Still have both - still get played a lot! <3


View attachment 3950883

LOVE my blank plank '77 Ripper!
Only bass I ever bought brand new from Kalamazoo to replace a stolen fretless '64 EB-3. Like Jaco I tore the frets out in a very bad manner and filled in with wood putty.

Started on double bass in orchestra in grade school, so didn't really need to adjust. When playing jazz in HS/college eyes were on the paper, so couldn't be looking at the board. Same with playing jazzy combo gigs.

Was my main bass for rock 60s-70s. I didn't do a whole lot of swoopy mwah stuff. And in rock you don't have paper on stage, but your eyes have to be on the crowd. People couldn't really tell I was playing fretless. Didn't have a fretted bass 'til 1980 when I needed a fretted bass for funk toons, so bought a used Fender P. Still have both - still get played a lot! <3


View attachment 3950883

LOVE my blank plank '77 Ripper!
Only bass I ever bought brand new from Kalamazoo to replace a stolen fretless '64 EB-3. Like Jaco I tore the frets out in a very bad manner and filled in with wood putty.

Started on double bass in orchestra in grade school, so didn't really need to adjust. When playing jazz in HS/college eyes were on the paper, so couldn't be looking at the board. Same with playing jazzy combo gigs.

Was my main bass for rock 60s-70s. I didn't do a whole lot of swoopy mwah stuff. And in rock you don't have paper on stage, but your eyes have to be on the crowd. People couldn't really tell I was playing fretless. Didn't have a fretted bass 'til 1980 when I needed a fretted bass for funk toons, so bought a used Fender P. Still have both - still get played a lot! <3


View attachment 3950883

I have the fretted version. 2 short stories about my Ripper:
Around '76 we packed up after a rehearsal on the other side of town. Got to where we were going and I discovered my Ripper was missing. Devastated, I called my girlfriend and told her I lost my bass. She said to come over. When I walked into her house, the bass was sitting in her living room. A thug on the street where I left it brought it to her criminally inclined brother (same house) believing he would know the best way to sell it. She recognized it as mine (I didn't know she paid attention). I gave the guy $50.
Fast forward to about 2005. At the end of a grueling tour, I got off the TGV in Paris. Before we left the station, the guitarist looked and me and asked "Hey, where's your bass". I dashed back to the train, located our seats and searched the overhead where I left it. Gone. After a couple of days at the station, I gave up figuring how many chances should I get to be stupid with this bass. Devastated I returned home. About a month later, I get a call from someone with a heavy French accent "Is this Jaribu Shahid, I think I have your instrument". A man who was in charge of the cleaning crew saw it on a cleaning cart and confiscated it from the guy trying to beat me for it. Not trusting the system he took it home ton ensure it's return.
By the way, once a van rolled on to of it and stopped with the wheel on top of the bass. The original case split at the seams but completely protected the bass.
I believe I have a special connection with my Ripper. Is there a Gibson bass group?

 

[mjm666]

Like the pic. If it were creative photography it could be entitled Fretboard to nowhere or Infinite fret fretless. Or something.

When Alembic made a fretless for John McVie with a stainless steel fingerboard (or maybe aluminum?), they called it "continuously fretted."

 

[WillyW]

While I still prefer lineless, it did not affect my decision to pick this up in trade yesterday...

I can close my eyes if the lines truly offend me.

It's a box with strings, and it goes "thump, thump, thump, but mostly on the root"...

 

[Tony]

I think about Mick Karn, who played a lined fretless Wal to great effect. Such a mindblowingly good player who was savant level oddball brilliant.

View attachment 3951835

IIRC from an old BP article I read about him years ago, he talked about how little he knew about music and how much that pissed off Bill Bruford, that he tried not to look at the neck and instead made a game out of seeing how long he could play without going out of tune, eventually rarely tuning his bass, instead just relying on his ears to find the right note. It might have been the 1996 issue, if anyone still has a copy, would be interesting to find out if I do remember correctly.

 

[Jaribu]

+1

I actually studied with Bob for several years. My first teacher. Many of his students didn't exactly buy into his shift exercises. I still have them in one of my workbooks. Bob was definitely a Master. He is missed.

Interesting, I played in the Civic because he was supposed to work with us. Never did. I spent some time with Max Janowski.

 

[Jaribu]

Lines. No lines. What difference does it make as long as you can play in tune.

 

[mjm666]

I've been a mostly fretless player for the last 18+ years or so. Started with a lined Carvin, switched to an unlined Benavente, then finally ended up with what I've played the most since I had it built back in 2006, an unlined, multi-scale fretless strung 35"-38". View attachment 3950816
View attachment 3950822

View attachment 3950850

OMG, multi-scale fretless! Totally scary!
Also, totally gorgeous - congrats!

 

[Jaribu]

OMG, multi-scale fretless! Totally scary!
Also, totally gorgeous - congrats!

Multi-scale fretless. Wow. Big cajones my friend.

 

[Tony]

OMG, multi-scale fretless! Totally scary!
Also, totally gorgeous - congrats!

Thanks, I think it's totally gorgeous also.

But it's funny, if you're already comfortable on fretless, it's not so scary once you play it for a bit. It took me all of one night jamming with my old drummer the day I got it to feel comfortable, did gigs with it the next week. It really didn't take all that long to adjust to the different scale, it's amazing how well your fingers can find the note if you really hear it well (and hearing yourself well is key to playing fretless in tune, with or without lines). I will readily admit, it doesn't lend itself to playing a lot of chords, especially in the upper registers, but it's a monster on single notes and the B string is massive and incredibly distinct. Plus tension across the strings is very even. Probably the only bad thing I can say about it is it's a heavy beast, and you don't have a lot of options to find strings that fit (thank you for Ken Smith Rockmasters XL scale).

 

[WillyW]

I want a multiscale lineless!

if I make the nut without looking, it might just work....

 

[BurningSkies]

IIRC from an old BP article I read about him years ago, he talked about how little he knew about music and how much that pissed off Bill Bruford, that he tried not to look at the neck and instead made a game out of seeing how long he could play without going out of tune, eventually rarely tuning his bass, instead just relying on his ears to find the right note. It might have been the 1996 issue, if anyone still has a copy, would be interesting to find out if I do remember correctly.

Soooooo good.

 

[BurningSkies]

I want a multiscale lineless!

if I make the nut without looking, it might just work....

 

[4Mal]

That's a stunner!

 

[BurningSkies]

That's a stunner!

Not bad, right?

 

[Manuel Bass]

View attachment 3952769

View attachment 3952771

They are beautiful , but it's impossible to play in tune with a multi scale frettless at least for me