Double Bass I plead INSANITY, yer' Honor...

[Don Kasper]

Is it important that the holes be parallel... to what? The top? The bridge foot? or is that not a factor?

It is not explicitly stated in the instructions, but I did my best to drill (consistently) "perpendicular" to the (slightly curved) face of my bridge, esp. at the top/radius.
The leg holes were easier to drill "perpendicular", as the legs are essentially "flat" on my bridge, (though the bridge blank is, of course, wedge-shaped.)
Thx.

 

[flatback]

imagine the pattern a bunch of dry sand on a timpani looks like when you hit the drum...the vibrations are everywhere but there are nodes and overlaps. The slits in the Wilson pick up a slice of that...spin it around (if it is parallel it looks great and gets max contact but if it isnt exactly it does not matter) and it accesses different parts of those vibrations and nodes. In one direction it might have a weak sound but just a bit away it is picking up a huge wave and is overly bassy . I don't think it is more then that except that the original concept: to have them up next to the strings allowed the natural intensity of proximity (of the string) to influence the volume of each pickup (which to my ear eliminates the phasing thing of having multiple pickups (because the near one is louder)

 

[DoubleMIDI]

It is not that much important if the holes are exactly parallel to the top at the bridge foot.
The influence is minimal if the deviation just a few degrees (up to 10).
The exact direction of the pressure on the bridge crown depends on the string angles at both sides of the bridge. Ideally the are the same, but often they are only roughly the same.
Don’t worry about that. A cleanly drilled hole is much more important.

 

[Don Kasper]

OK. Fired up the K-2 today in my practice room.
First with my EA Doubler/DIY 10" cab - (no RedEye) - both elements at the curved end of the bridge. Noticeably weaker output level than I'm used to, so I cranked the gain, until the clip light blinked. This improved the overall signal and the weak fundamental in the low-end, but there was some midrangey piezo quackery which caused some accentuated HF finger noise...the amp EQ was flat.
I then added the RedEye preamp - this filled out the low end response, a bit, and reduced the midrangey noise somewhat, but not completely...that might be the inherent piezo flavor (quack?) that everyone has heard for decades?
Next, I tried it thru my WW Electracoustic (Amber)/DIY 10" DIY cab, with the RedEye. The input level, again, was less than what I'm used to with my previous PU - the B-Band D-1 (1 electret film element on the E side wing, only.) So, I increased the Gain about 25%. The low end, fundamental presence, was even better, and the midrangey stuff was still there, but almost manageable. (I may have to run some EQ experiments for both amps...I will have a couple of rehearsal/gig opportunities in early Sept...none this week.)
I don't have much faith in "practice room" rig evaluations, (ask me how I know), but I'll try it again with both rigs (keeping the RedEye in the path), tomorrow, with fresh ears.
Finally - the K-2 elements are very tight in the holes, (ouch!) and I made sure that they were installed (ouch!) correctly, (@ 5mm depth) as I believe most piezo systems rely on some kind of optimal "pressure" to accurately capture and transmit the vibrations.
FYI - I have not tried the 2 holes at the feet of the bridge, as I'm following Wilson's instructions before I go rogue. (shrug emoji)
As a "glass half-empty" guy, I'll need to not get too discouraged if the Wilson takes some Trials & Errors before earning a spot in the signal path.
Thanks.

 

[flatback]

The Wilson requires A LOT of gain. Totally opposite of the Yamahiko which has almost too much sometimes. Dont be afraid to crank the gain at the first stage of the Signal. Also turn the elements it can make a huge difference in the gain....

 

[Earl]

Let's hear it!

 

[Don Kasper]

Let's hear it!

I am severely technologically limited and challenged!
I'll see what I can do???
Thanks.

 

[Bruce Calin]

Hi, Don,
My questions are: What made you want to try this particular pickup and why decide at this stage to change anything? All it takes for me personally to reject any urge to change anything in my equipment is to play a trouble -free gig with decent sound and not be concerned with anything aside from playing, This was the case as recently as Sat. night: outdoor gig, weird setup for space reasons, some players I hadn't played with before, etc. It was a relief to not have to even think about gear. I'm occasionally tempted to try something new, but not enough to actually do anything. What made you want to do this?

 

[Don Kasper]

Hi, Don,
My questions are: What made you want to try this particular pickup and why decide at this stage to change anything? All it takes for me personally to reject any urge to change anything in my equipment is to play a trouble -free gig with decent sound and not be concerned with anything aside from playing, This was the case as recently as Sat. night: outdoor gig, weird setup for space reasons, some players I hadn't played with before, etc. It was a relief to not have to even think about gear. I'm occasionally tempted to try something new, but not enough to actually do anything. What made you want to do this?

My current PU manufacturer, the B-Band D-1, is no longer in "business", so I'm trying to anticipate a new setup, BEFORE it is a panic situation. I've been using the B-Band D-1 for about 11+ yrs. (tick-tock...?)
I like the B-Band D-1, for "fundamental" presence and overall evenness, but I was intrigued by Earl's sound (and playing!) with the Basbalreit single element piezo, installed in the bridge leg. I think the Wilson K-2 might be close to the Basbalreit concept, with an additional element.
I have an Underwood as a backup, (actually a Onederwood single element) but that technology is now 50 yrs old. (tick-tock!)
I may be poking the beehive at this point, but I'd rather try something now, and not be in "panic mode".
Yeah...The title of my thread does include the word "...INSANITY...".
Thanks and I envy your SANITY!

 

[Earl]

My current PU, manufacturer the B-Band D-1, is no longer in "business", so I'm trying to anticipate a new setup, BEFORE it is a panic situation. I've been using the B-Band D-1 for about 11+ yrs. (tick-tock...?)
I like the B-Band D-1, for "fundamental" presence and overall evenness, but I was intrigued by Earl's sound (and playing!) with the Basbalreit single element piezo, installed in the bridge leg. I think the Wilson K-2 might be close to the Basbalreit concept, with an additional element.
I have an Underwood as a backup, (actually a Onederwood single element) but that technology is now 50 yrs old.
I may be poking the beehive at this point, but I'd rather try something now, and not be in "panic mode".
Yeah...The title of my thread does include the word "...INSANITY...".
Thanks and I envy your SANITY!

Don't follow me, I change pickups like I change underwear! Today I am using a Schertler Stat B on my Juzek, and a Vic's on my ply. Talk about insane!

 

[Don Kasper]

Don't follow me, I change pickups like I change underwear! Today I am using a Schertler Stat B on my Juzek, and a Vic's on my ply. Talk about insane!

What is this "underwear" of which you speak??
Thx?

 

[Bruce Calin]

My current PU manufacturer, the B-Band D-1, is no longer in "business", so I'm trying to anticipate a new setup, BEFORE it is a panic situation. I've been using the B-Band D-1 for about 11+ yrs. (tick-tock...?)
I like the B-Band D-1, for "fundamental" presence and overall evenness, but I was intrigued by Earl's sound (and playing!) with the Basbalreit single element piezo, installed in the bridge leg. I think the Wilson K-2 might be close to the Basbalreit concept, with an additional element.
I have an Underwood as a backup, (actually a Onederwood single element) but that technology is now 50 yrs old. (tick-tock!)
I may be poking the beehive at this point, but I'd rather try something now, and not be in "panic mode".
Yeah...The title of my thread does include the word "...INSANITY...".
Thanks and I envy your SANITY!

This actually makes sense. I have a couple of backups but I suspect laziness is a big part of it in my case. Good luck. I hope it works out well.

 

[Earl]

What is this "underwear" of which you speak??
Thx?

It is like a bass bib but without the b

 

[Don Kasper]

OK...spent some more time with the K-2 setup. I was able to press each element in another mm. Wilson recommends a minimum of 5mm, I'm at 5-6 mm on each.
I was able to play in my living room (larger), and was able to get usable sounds from both the EA and the WW, both with the RedEye.
EA - I had to boost the bass a bit, and cut the Mid and Treble which filled out the fundamental lows, and cleaned up the midrangey/HF finger noise. I'll need to see if the real world might call for adding some "highs" back. Maybe. (I'm really NOT a fan of the old 70's/80's DI bass sound that squashed the front of the note and emphasized the midrange to excess, so I tend toward a darker sound overall.)
WW - I was able to cut the Treble, Middle, and Vari (all at 9 o'clock now, bass is at 12 o'clock flat) which solved the midrangey/HF finger noise. The WW setup now sounds full and smooth, but I may need to add back some Treble or Mid, for clarity in the real world. Maybe.
Let me just say that while the EA Doubler is a nice DB amp, the WW has "something" that makes for a warmer, fuller, tighter, deeper sound. The EA has (comparatively) a shallower, thinner, sound. I use the EA for rehearsals, usually, and the WW for gigs, BUT, I do sometimes take the WW to rehearsals just to remind myself just how musical and good and right it sounds. Thank You, Walter Woods, wherever you are. A true genius, IMFO.
I don't think recording with an iPhone would be at all useful, here, as the acoustic sound of my bass would be "in the room", as well, so to speak. Sorry, Earl.
So far I'm hopeful that I can get this PU to function in the Real World.
Fingers Crossed.
Thanks.

 

[Tom Lane]

OK...spent some more time with the K-2 setup. I was able to press each element in another mm. Wilson recommends a minimum of 5mm, I'm at 5-6 mm on each.
I was able to play in my living room (larger), and was able to get usable sounds from both the EA and the WW, both with the RedEye.
EA - I had to boost the bass a bit, and cut the Mid and Treble which filled out the fundamental lows, and cleaned up the midrangey/HF finger noise. I'll need to see if the real world might call for adding some "highs" back. Maybe. (I'm really NOT a fan of the old 70's/80's DI bass sound that squashed the front of the note and emphasized the midrange to excess, so I tend toward a darker sound overall.)
WW - I was able to cut the Treble, Middle, and Vari (all at 9 o'clock now, bass is at 12 o'clock flat) which solved the midrangey/HF finger noise. The WW setup now sounds full and smooth, but I may need to add back some Treble or Mid, for clarity in the real world. Maybe.
Let me just say that while the EA Doubler is a nice DB amp, the WW has "something" that makes for a warmer, fuller, deeper sound. The EA has (comparatively) a shallower, thinner, sound. I use the EA for rehearsals, usually, and the WW for gigs, BUT, I do sometimes take the WW to rehearsals just to remind myself just how musical and good and right it sounds. Thank You, Walter Woods, wherever you are. A true genius, IMFO.
I don't think recording with an iPhone would be at all useful, here, as the acoustic sound of my bass would be "in the room", as well, so to speak. Sorry, Earl.
So far I'm hopeful that I can get this PU to function in the Real World.
Fingers Crossed.
Thanks.

The times I've heard you on a gig I thought you're tone was right on, present but not distracting, clear pitches with a good fundamental and I could hear your legato so I admire your go-to tone. I noticed that my 63 year old ears aren't what they were 25 years ago, still super sensitive but lacking anything above 15 Khz so I think it's wise to get another educated and younger, opinion.

 

[BobKay]

As a "glass half-empty" guy, I'll need to not get too discouraged

Yes, work on that. My wife, a glass half-empty person, will sometimes admit that the glass is half-full, but qualifies that opinion by noting that it is half-full of something that will kill you if you drink it.

 

[statsc]

OK...spent some more time with the K-2 setup. I was able to press each element in another mm. Wilson recommends a minimum of 5mm, I'm at 5-6 mm on each.
I was able to play in my living room (larger), and was able to get usable sounds from both the EA and the WW, both with the RedEye.
EA - I had to boost the bass a bit, and cut the Mid and Treble which filled out the fundamental lows, and cleaned up the midrangey/HF finger noise. I'll need to see if the real world might call for adding some "highs" back. Maybe. (I'm really NOT a fan of the old 70's/80's DI bass sound that squashed the front of the note and emphasized the midrange to excess, so I tend toward a darker sound overall.)
WW - I was able to cut the Treble, Middle, and Vari (all at 9 o'clock now, bass is at 12 o'clock flat) which solved the midrangey/HF finger noise. The WW setup now sounds full and smooth, but I may need to add back some Treble or Mid, for clarity in the real world. Maybe.
Let me just say that while the EA Doubler is a nice DB amp, the WW has "something" that makes for a warmer, fuller, tighter, deeper sound. The EA has (comparatively) a shallower, thinner, sound. I use the EA for rehearsals, usually, and the WW for gigs, BUT, I do sometimes take the WW to rehearsals just to remind myself just how musical and good and right it sounds. Thank You, Walter Woods, wherever you are. A true genius, IMFO.
I don't think recording with an iPhone would be at all useful, here, as the acoustic sound of my bass would be "in the room", as well, so to speak. Sorry, Earl.
So far I'm hopeful that I can get this PU to function in the Real World.
Fingers Crossed.
Thanks.

+1 on the WW “something!” The best way I can describe it is, “right.”

 

[flatback]

I have been comparing the K2 (my K4 with only 2 pickups plugged in at the back of the bridge G side and E side) with the Yamahiko... Really interesting differences. The Yamahiko is So much louder and fuller a sound that at first it does not seem like apples to apples. But then (I use the two ch's of the Felix) when you dial in the proper gain and IMP on the Wilson (and of course finding the right orientation of the directional pickups) they both sound good in Different ways. More bass on the Yamahiko but who needs more bass? The Wilson, especially on a gig with a bunch of other white noise happening sounds airy and weirdly acoustic yet direct and really good. The Y sounds thicker and less distinct. Both sound good. I was just twisting the blend dial back and forth the other night and I noticed that when I got bored with that midway thru the first set, I left it on the K2. Punchy, cutty (not MBOL) but not 70's nasal twang either.

 

[Don Kasper]

FYI/TMI - I have a few playing situations later this week, and I'll be updating my "real-world" Wilson K-2's performance.
Thx.

 

[Don Kasper]

As promised, a brief update:
One of my "situations" got cancelled last week, so there were only 2 situations with the Wilson K-2:
1. A drummer-less Trio gig with Grand Piano and Tenor Sax (no PA), in a room that is, at best, a "barely listening/always talking..."room, and they were especially LOUD that nite. I used the WW Electracoustic (amber),w/ the RedEye, into my DIY 10" cab, and I was able to get a full sound with overall smoothness (NO Hotspots/Deadspots or Feedback). So that was fine, considering.
2. A Quintet with Grand Piano, Drums, Tenor, Clarinet, ( in a large living room.) I used the EA Doubler, w/the RedEye, DIY 10" cab. It was a nicer, quieter "room" and I was able to get a smooth, full, sound, and was surprised at how much better the EA sounded in that room compared to my living room. So that was a real +. (The EA is not my first choice, compared to the WW Electra...... as I've stated before. So, Win/Win, so far.)
(3.) I did a Trio recording session with both DB and BG and the engineer (thankfully) bypassed the direct K-2 pickup, and just mic'd the DB in the iso-booth with some kind of "MIC"?...(shrug...I am not a Mic-Junky.) It was a real "Music By The Pound" session, (no prior rehearsal, 13 tunes in 4.5 hrs.), as my friend the Veteran LA Session Drummer observed.
I am liking the overall smoothness and fullness of the K-2. as many PU's that I've tried in the past have had annoying HOT and/or COLD notes/strings, and so far, the K-2 seems to have none of those issues. I am convinced that the RedEye is playing no small part in taming the "Piezo Quackery", inherent in all Piezos(?).
I will probably have a Trio situation (Gnd. Piano and Drums, Living Room....) this coming week and I look forward to tweeking the overall Timbre, maybe brightening-up the sound, a bit.
Finally - I am not considering moving the 2 elements to the "leg" holes at this time. "If It Ain't Broke, Don't......".
We'll see....er, hear.
This may be the best DB pickup I've ever used! ...and, @$550, it oughta be!
Thanks for listening.