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I STILL fail at getting volume!!!!

#141
Destructobot said:
The guitar amps I was unable to keep up with on bass were a fener quad reverb, set to about 3 with a fuzz boosting it, and a 50w Marshall JMP through ONE 4x12. Even without a drummer I could barely hear the bass. No matter how you slice it, my 2x10 - 2x12 - B1500 rig ought to at least keep up with a 50w marshall and one stack, especially sans drummer.
Click to expand...
Ok, OK. Well, a Quad Reverb is 100 watts into 4 12's.
Then add the Marshall- another 50 watts into 4 12's.
These are big guns, friend.
This is a recipe for potentially enormous volume. So are the guitars loud or not? Seriously- how loud? "Set to about 3" is meaningless- how loud are we actually talking here?
 
#142
Destructobot said:
Some of you guys are bad at reading.

MY GUITAR PLAYER IS NOT RUNNING THE 100w WITH TWO 4x12'S!!!!!!!!


Did you get that? Good
Click to expand...

Ok, here's something you aren't getting.

Look at his rig. What do you see?
4x12 in a combo or 4x12 in a cab.

Now, look at your rig. What do you see?

LESS THAN 4x12. You're pooched straight out of the gate.

NOW, add to that, low end is WAAAAAY harder to reproduce and takes MORE speaker area, not less. Now you're behind by a couple of car lenghts.

You like sub low...now he has you by two laps.

He likes a fuzz tone....you're back 10 laps.

You are very likely dealing with standing wave cencellation issues which guitar amps laugh at.

OOOPS!
You just blew a tire, head for the pits. That race was over before it even started.

Go out and buy $1000 worth of cabs, you're guitar player will turn up to 4. Buy $1000 more, he'll turn up to 5.

Walk over to that quad, pull two of the power tubes and disconnect two of the speakers. MAYBE you'll have a chance.

BTW I still have my eyes and I read just fine. You know what else I still have? My hearing.

Good luck
 
#144
Steve said:
Maybe it should be noted that I despise the sound of speaker compression, hot voice coils and a cab that's huffing and puffing to keep up.
Click to expand...

As I am. I would really hate if I would have the feeling the speakers couldn't handle it. Like I said, very mid oriented tone, very much cutting through tone, while the guitar player had scooped mids for a classic metal overdrive/distortion. Maybe that was the key for me to be easily heard. Like I said, no clipping on the amp, no speaker compression, hot voice coils or the cab huffing.

If I would have scooped mids too, sure as hell I wouldn't be heard though...
 
#145
walknbluez said:
Ok this might sound silly but its worth a shot to ask. Could it be dead strings? I had this problem (with dead strings) and changed (to flats) and voila. But then again, I didn't have 1600 watts.
Click to expand...

Here's my guess,
Any MAJOR problem is usually the result of multiple issues/failures. The guitar rig probably IS alot louder than he realizes, he maybe has the EQ boosted hard on the bottom end and everything above that dumped, he probably has super dead strings which can cut the punch and output of a rig significantly, and he may have one or more junk speakers in those cabs.

Thats my guess, but if the answer truly is 3-4 SVT 8x10 rigs in a basement for practice...
Then go with that I guess :rollno:

Edit: And he never mentioned what tuning he uses. Bottom heavy EQ and tuning down 2.5 steps can make those speakers flop like dying fish.
 
#146
dmusic148 said:
Ok, OK. Well, a Quad Reverb is 100 watts into 4 12's.
Then add the Marshall- another 50 watts into 4 12's.
These are big guns, friend.
This is a recipe for potentially enormous volume. So are the guitars loud or not? Seriously- how loud? "Set to about 3" is meaningless- how loud are we actually talking here?
Click to expand...

Man, the Fender Quad Reverb is a BEAST! Not than many players end up using them (usually going with a Twin or a Deluxe) as it's just too loud for most situations. And a Marshall 50w with 4X12s is a hella loud rig (but man, can sound so lovely---better than the venerable 100w into 4x12s in my book).
Anyhow, I haven't seen much info about how your rig sounds by itself?
How are things without the guitarist blasting away?
 
#149
georgestrings said:
Simple explanation:

Marshall = pro gear

Madison = junk


- georgestrings
Click to expand...

Yeah that MG series stuff is top notch...

Steve said:
Ok, here's something you aren't getting.

Look at his rig. What do you see?
4x12 in a combo or 4x12 in a cab.

Now, look at your rig. What do you see?

LESS THAN 4x12. You're pooched straight out of the gate.

NOW, add to that, low end is WAAAAAY harder to reproduce and takes MORE speaker area, not less. Now you're behind by a couple of car lenghts.

You like sub low...now he has you by two laps.

He likes a fuzz tone....you're back 10 laps.

You are very likely dealing with standing wave cencellation issues which guitar amps laugh at.

OOOPS!
You just blew a tire, head for the pits. That race was over before it even started.

Go out and buy $1000 worth of cabs, you're guitar player will turn up to 4. Buy $1000 more, he'll turn up to 5.

Walk over to that quad, pull two of the power tubes and disconnect two of the speakers. MAYBE you'll have a chance.

BTW I still have my eyes and I read just fine. You know what else I still have? My hearing.

Good luck
Click to expand...

This is screaming out for the "Wrong, wrong wrong, wrong..." Dr. Cox quote from Scrubs, why aren't we allowed proper youtube links on here anyway.

Anyway just cos this guitarist is playing with alot of power doesn't mean that he's not capable of turning himself down for one, one of the guitar players in one of my bands plays a mode 4 with a 4x12 and I'm usually suggesting he needs to turn up, this light-hearted taking the piss out of guitarists thing seems to have had some genuine impact on some people.

More importantly speaker area is the be end and end all of **** all, what matters is displacement. You could bury many an 8x10 with a couple of Eminence 3015LFs and a loud midrange driver from what I've heard from the sound buffs on here, the 8x10 certainly wouldn't be able to keep up in the low bass anyway. If you do the maths the 8x10 has a surface area of 628 inches whereas the 2x15+6 has one of 381 (353 if you ignore the mid driver which isn't gonna be putting out anything under 1K anyway) so that's alot more bass from less speaker area. Obviously speakers are kinda more on the cone shaped side of things so those calculations are a little off but that's enough to put a point across :p

Anyway just try your setup through a/some decent cabs already!
 
#154
OP described lots of speaker cone movement but not much sound.

Does anyone besides me think that could be SUBsonic speaker movement (or at least below the frequency range of the speaker)?

OP dismissed the idea of adjusting the EQ, but if it is POSSIBLE that the amp and speakers are giving it their all trying to reproduce subsonic audio, wouldn't it be worth at least TRYING for one minute or so boosting the mids and cutting the lows, just to see what happens?

It won't cost anything but a minute of time, and it might be helpful.
 
#155
kayak said:
OP described lots of speaker cone movement but not much sound.

Does anyone besides me think that could be SUBsonic speaker movement (or at least below the frequency range of the speaker)?

OP dismissed the idea of adjusting the EQ, but if it is POSSIBLE that the amp and speakers are giving it their all trying to reproduce subsonic audio, wouldn't it be worth at least TRYING for one minute or so boosting the mids and cutting the lows, just to see what happens?

It won't cost anything but a minute of time, and it might be helpful.
Click to expand...

Check my post a few lines up, I'm thinking it's a combination of a few things but the speaker movement is very supsicious. I have seen speakers that bounced back and forth almost like a cartoon and then 'poof!' I think it may be due to sub-sonic resonance or something like that, and not using a bottom cut off frequency for subs or any speaker for that matter. I'm not 100%, maybe one of the more technical fellas could fill us in.
 

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