I STILL fail at getting volume!!!!

[aborgman]

I don't know anything about Madison but I know Mashall and I know Markbass.

A 100w Marshall with a 4x12 cab will chew that 210 into sawdust. Sorry.

Absolutely.

I run a 2x10 with way more watts than it can handle.

Our rhythm guitard runs a 15 watt Vox solid state amp. In our basement rehearsal space, he can (but doesn't) turn up and be loud enough that I have a difficult time keeping up... and my wife really has to bash on the drums to keep up.

 

[Count Bassie]

Perhaps the next best step for the OP is to take the rig somewhere else and play through it--rent a rehearsal room somewhere for a few hours. A bigger space then you're currently in. See how it sounds in there.

There you go- get some comparisons. IF you manage to hang onto your hearing long enough to get a gig that'll be a good way too...

Sorry! Alright, best of luck, and enjoy your music! I'm outta here, can't keep my squawk out of the way...

 

[pulse]

Perhaps the next best step for the OP is to take the rig somewhere else and play through it--rent a rehearsal room somewhere for a few hours. A bigger space then you're currently in. See how it sounds in there.

In addition to trying the rig in a different room, I would try different postions in the current room, and also try using a different bass through the system.

I get way more tone out of one of my basses than the other, it just seems to have a more amp pleasing character than the other.

On the other hand the bass I have that amps dont like for some reason sounds way more impressive in the studio, extremely wide dynamic frequency response and sounds great in recordings. But it sucks in a band context....

wasted a lot of my time getting angry with my amp about that

still sounds likely that the speakers he currently uses arent the right ones for him.

 

[Bob C]

This is a seven page thread, and we've had only four or five entries from the OP, Destructobot. Maybe we scared him away, but we need to hear an update.

Also, everyone should go back and reread his posts. He specifically stated his guitar player doesn't always use the Marshall stack, he doesn't always crank it, and he often uses a power attenuator. He (the guitar player) also uses a Marshall 50 watt or a Fender Quad Reverb.

Destructobot also said that the quad with fuzz and turned up to 3 drowned his bass out. I believe he said something about playing his bass through the Marshall too (for comparison). It also seems that he is using sensible eq settings.

OP says he has done the battery phase test. Hasn't replied about his speaker cords, amp placement, other venues or his perception of how loud the rest of the band is.

Maybe the band IS way too loud. Maybe there is something wrong with one or more of the components in his signal chain. It IS possible to replace a bad cord with a brand new cord, only to discover that the new cord is also bad. It happens.

So anyway, a lot of the advice here is well intended, sensible and possibly helpful. But we are getting a little carried away with our assumptions about what his problem is. As I said erlier in my post, go back and reread how many things he HASN'T said that we are now incorporating into OUR interpretation of his post.

 

[NicJimBass]

This is a seven page thread, and we've had only four or five entries from the OP, Destructobot. Maybe we scared him away, but we need to hear an update.

Also, everyone should go back and reread his posts. He specifically stated his guitar player doesn't always use the Marshall stack, he doesn't always crank it, and he often uses a power attenuator. He (the guitar player) also uses a Marshall 50 watt or a Fender Quad Reverb.

Destructobot also said that the quad with fuzz and turned up to 3 drowned his bass out. I believe he said something about playing his bass through the Marshall too (for comparison). It also seems that he is using sensible eq settings.

OP says he has done the battery phase test. Hasn't replied about his speaker cords, amp placement, other venues or his perception of how loud the rest of the band is.

Maybe the band IS way too loud. Maybe there is something wrong with one or more of the components in his signal chain. It IS possible to replace a bad cord with a brand new cord, only to discover that the new cord is also bad. It happens.

So anyway, a lot of the advice here is well intended, sensible and possibly helpful. But we are getting a little carried away with our assumptions about what his problem is. As I said erlier in my post, go back and reread how many things he HASN'T said that we are now incorporating into OUR interpretation of his post.

I agree about the band possibly being too loud, but I was in a band with 2 guitarist, both with 100w half stacks and a heavy handed drummer, and I was still being told to turn down. Granted, I had a GK 1001RB-II, and ran it through either an Ampeg 810 or GK Neo 412, but I had volume to spare. I had a Music Man (Markbass) rig a while ago, a 500w head, and a 210 and 212 cabs. Never had a problem keeping up with anyone with that rig either.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

This is a seven page thread, and we've had only four or five entries from the OP, Destructobot. Maybe we scared him away, but we need to hear an update.

Also, everyone should go back and reread his posts. He specifically stated his guitar player doesn't always use the Marshall stack, he doesn't always crank it, and he often uses a power attenuator. He (the guitar player) also uses a Marshall 50 watt or a Fender Quad Reverb.

Destructobot also said that the quad with fuzz and turned up to 3 drowned his bass out. I believe he said something about playing his bass through the Marshall too (for comparison). It also seems that he is using sensible eq settings.

OP says he has done the battery phase test. Hasn't replied about his speaker cords, amp placement, other venues or his perception of how loud the rest of the band is.

Maybe the band IS way too loud. Maybe there is something wrong with one or more of the components in his signal chain. It IS possible to replace a bad cord with a brand new cord, only to discover that the new cord is also bad. It happens.

So anyway, a lot of the advice here is well intended, sensible and possibly helpful. But we are getting a little carried away with our assumptions about what his problem is. As I said erlier in my post, go back and reread how many things he HASN'T said that we are now incorporating into OUR interpretation of his post.

Agreed.

Many of us have recommended that he go through his cabs with a multi-meter and a fine tooth comb to ensure that all speakers are working properly, and all wiring is good (including proper use of speaker cables).

We have also suggested trying the rig in different positions/locations to eliminate standing waves.

Without any further feedback from the OP, anything further is meaningless

 

[gastric]

Troubleshooting is a simple process of elimination. Change one variable at a time until you discover the source. The OP did a good deal of that already by running different amps into his cabs, so he's on the path towards isolating the cause. And there's been plenty of other suggestions in here along that same vein.

 

[GearHeadBassMan]

are the cabs still new? like around 6 months or so? i found that after having similar problems they just opened up one day and that was that.

Also, you might just be one of those guys who need the extra speakers to really get the volume you're looking for. I know I am.

nd to people saying a 4x10 is enough, yea, it is, for you. I had a 6x10 and 1200 watts and that was just enough to push the tone I liked the best at a giggable volume.

 

[alfredpunkjazz]

well... it's not like the OP has shown again...

 

[flipper_gv]

I don't know anything about Madison but I know Mashall and I know Markbass.

A 100w Marshall with a 4x12 cab will chew that 210 into sawdust. Sorry.

Well, before he had the Madison, he had a JCM800 and it was less loud than the Madison head, which is an all tube metal oriented head (and it is quite loud). And yet, no prob to match in terms of volume against the JCM800. Maybe it should be noted but I got a very mid oriented tone

 

[Steve]

I've owned:
Eden 210 XLT
Acme B2
EA VL210

and pushed them all with 2400w.

I've used the same MB combo as you several times at gigs.
I think I have a pretty good idea of the capabilities of the average (and above average) 210 cab.

I stand by my statement. There's not a 210 on the planet that can hang with that guitar rig unless the guitar player allows it. Maybe if it's a BFM design box or some other non standard cab.

Maybe it should be noted that I despise the sound of speaker compression, hot voice coils and a cab that's huffing and puffing to keep up.

Glad it's working for you though.

 

[Greyvagabond]

nd to people saying a 4x10 is enough, yea, it is, for you. I had a 6x10 and 1200 watts and that was just enough to push the tone I liked the best at a giggable volume.

Do the places you place have a PA? The soundguy is in the best position to decide what "giggable volume" is, and there is nothing they hate more than people with 10x the amount of amp they need who are CONSTANTLY fiddling/turning up their stage volume. That's a recipe for a pissed sound guy, and buried vocals.

 

[Destructobot]

Some of you guys are bad at reading.

MY GUITAR PLAYER IS NOT RUNNING THE 100w WITH TWO 4x12'S!!!!!!!!


Did you get that? Good. We hooked up that rig and ran the BASS through it, to compare to the Carvin/Avatar rig. I'm well aware that I'd need more cabs to keep up with that rig if we ran GUITAR through the Marshall full stack.

The guitar amps I was unable to keep up with on bass were a fener quad reverb, set to about 3 with a fuzz boosting it, and a 50w Marshall JMP through ONE 4x12. Even without a drummer I could barely hear the bass. No matter how you slice it, my 2x10 - 2x12 - B1500 rig ought to at least keep up with a 50w marshall and one stack, especially sans drummer.


I haven't tried running the rig in different places in the room, but I have tried it in a totally different room when I had the rack setup. Same problem. I'm using proper speaker cables. In fact, I've tried several different speaker cables, including beefy ones with speakon connectors. No change.

 

[silky smoove]

If you've got both of those cabs going to the point that you can really start to see the cones jumping back and forth (as you stated earlier in the thread), how can it not be loud?

Just out of curiosity, do you suffer from any type of significant hearing loss?

 

[Greyvagabond]

I just kinda skimmed through this thread but here is what happened to me with Avatar cabs: First off I've had a few of them and they are great. I recently had an SB112 paired with an Avatar 210. I had a new Carvin BX500 running the cabs. After about 20 seconds of playing, especially aggressive playing, the amp would go into protect mode and shut down. It did this over and over, driving me nuts.

I didn't think it was the cabs. The 112 was new. Anyway, long story even longer, the brand new Avatar 112 had a loose wire and vibration was making the bare wire make contact with the metal frame of the speaker. That's all it was. Open them up and have a look, you never know...
Oh and by the way, the volume was weak as well. I had another incident with an Avatar where they had to send me a new crossover. Otherwise they make great cabs!

This bears repeating; now that the OP is back, he might have missed the 7 pages of TB tom-foolery that ensued after he went to do real things in the real world

 

[walknbluez]

Ok this might sound silly but its worth a shot to ask. Could it be dead strings? I had this problem (with dead strings) and changed (to flats) and voila. But then again, I didn't have 1600 watts.

 

[georgestrings]

Do the places you place have a PA? The soundguy is in the best position to decide what "giggable volume" is, and there is nothing they hate more than people with 10x the amount of amp they need who are CONSTANTLY fiddling/turning up their stage volume. That's a recipe for a pissed sound guy, and buried vocals.

While I agree that playing too loudly for a proper band mix is never a good thing, I disagree with the notion that:

--------------------------------------------------------
the soundguy is in the best position to decide what "giggable volume" is
--------------------------------------------------------


...if that were how things were done, more often than not a bassist would find themselves down so low they wouldn't even be able to hear what they were playing...



- georgestrings

 

[Bassman203]

I said this before and know one responded so I'm still unsure whether I've got a decent idea or not, but...

The B1500 is 1250 watts @ 4 ohms

Your 2x12 and 2x10 (8 ohms each right?) are rated at 500 watts.

This could be a problem. My thoughts have always been you want your speakers to have a higher total watt rating than your head. If your amp can run at less than 4 ohms, I would try one more cab in your setup to find out if it helps.

But your bass could have issues too if you haven't tried a different bass through your rig.

 

[251]

I think the room acoustics are limiting movement of air. You said this is being done in a basement? I am not a physicist or acoustic engineer but, look at this;

Your low E string vibrates at about 40 Hz. The speed of sound is roughly 1000 ft/sec. The wavelength of the standing wave is 25 feet. In an 18 foot room the wave will reflect an anti-node (maximum sound) exactly out of phase with the signal coming from your speakers, making things quieter. Extend that for each tone you play, add in the effect of a closed sound chamber (you're basically in a pit) & you need a lot of power to make much sound.

Take the rig to a bigger space & test it there.

Congratulations blasting a guitar amp to clipping with low frequency & not blowing it up.

BTW, you should be wearing ear protection working with so much power. Consider a pair of ER 20 earplugs from www.etymotic.com. It's a few $$ that will let you hear what is going on around you & still make music for a very long time.

 

[greenboy]

I think the room acoustics are limiting movement of air. You said this is being done in a basement? I am not a physicist or acoustic engineer but, look at this;

Your low E string vibrates at about 40 Hz. The speed of sound is roughly 1000 ft/sec. The wavelength of the standing wave is 25 feet. In an 18 foot room the wave will reflect an anti-node (maximum sound) exactly out of phase with the signal coming from your speakers, making things quieter. Extend that for each tone you play, add in the effect of a closed sound chamber (you're basically in a pit) & you need a lot of power to make much sound.

Actually adding more power when cancellation in the Low Frequencies is a significant factor doesn't do anything positive. It just makes the cones move further and the voice coils heat up more, and the only additional SPL you really get is when everybody starts screaming, Fire! Fire! ; }