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I think Fender is seriously crazy!
- Thread starter FishDub
- Start date
I just go try some basses...then I find one I like...then if its in my price range I buy it...then I play it.
I *might* pop out the phone to check some reviews first, though usually not.
I didn't know things were so complicated.
Agreed. I wouldn't buy a new bass without playing it. I've also found that, no matter what year of Fender, if there are 10 fenders on a wall, one will be better than the others (and one will also be worse). These are mass produced products. You are NOT getting a hand-crafted, lovingly built instrument like a Fodera, NYC Sadowsky or Rob Allen. You are also not paying that kind of money. You want a piece of real craftsmanship? Be prepared to PAY - and like it.
Fender has a custom shop for hand-crafted, lovingly built instruments like Fodera, Sadowsky, etc.
I think I've said this before on this forum, but I truly think instruments are individuals. There are good and bad Squiers, good and bad MIMs, and good and bad MIAs. The percentages may be different, though, in that you more than likely have a higher percentage of good MIA basses than Squiers, for example. My current P-Bass for the last 24 years is a MIJ Fender. I used to own a bunch of MIA Fenders, but this particular MIJ bass was just spectacular in comparison, so it stayed and the others went. I think Georgestrings nailed it - play all of them that you can, buy the best one you can comfortably afford, and play it happily.
And, you pay for it.
The OP's gripe is about paying too much for a new Fender, so let's look at the real numbers.
My first Fender J was bought new, at Apex Music of San Diego for $350 at the end of 1976 (Xmas present for 15 year old me). I got a job when it turned 16 in 1977 making $2.65 per hour.
Using this inflation calculator:
http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=350&year1=1977&year2=2014
that $350 tranlates into $1356 in 2014 bucks. And do you know how much Sweetwater is selling a new American Standard J bass for? $1349. And I assure you, a 2014 Fender American Standard bass is a nicer instrument than a 1977.
Oh, and my minimum wage of $2.65, using that same calculator, is $10.27 in today's bucks (for what that's worth)
I am Soma,
Dead spots, shielding issues, ski jump necks etc. are not "opinions", but other than that, yes it is theoritically possible that I managed to pick up X amount of Japanese basses, where every one is better than the best one of the Y number MIA basses I have picked up.
In real life, most of us use collected experiences to build opinions since we can not sample a whole production. If japanese consumer electronics, cars and motor bikes etc are all in general far ahead American ad European brands, why would not their basses also be?
Dead spots, shielding issues, ski jump necks etc. are not "opinions", but other than that, yes it is theoritically possible that I managed to pick up X amount of Japanese basses, where every one is better than the best one of the Y number MIA basses I have picked up.
In real life, most of us use collected experiences to build opinions since we can not sample a whole production. If japanese consumer electronics, cars and motor bikes etc are all in general far ahead American ad European brands, why would not their basses also be?
It's long been my contention that EVERY Social Networking site, including Talkbass, should have a rule, a MANDATORY Rule, which states clearly that each member show a Drivers License or other Government furnished PHOTO I.D. A Long form Birth Certificate should also be shown on Each profile. 
I personally LOVE reading the threads here and would never wish anyone ill......but some Bass Players were meant to be drummers.
Basses are, IMHO, THE most important instrument in a band. ANY band can have 27 guitar players, 16 drummers and 12 keyboard players. BUT, you'll only find one Bass Player (the Highest Form of Human Life) 99.9% of the time. Why is that? It's because we're the Smartest, the Best Looking and the Funniest and Most Caring Person in the Band. Owning the PA might also have something to do with it.....but that's a story for another day.
My point.....???? I get a HUGE kick out of those who mock the BIG Instrument manufacturers....ANY of those companies.....for any reason. NONE of the "biggies" are crazy.....they simply have a need...and that need is to "Feed the Beast" and Keep the Machines running. If you're HUGE and you find someone who MIGHT become a Conflict or who might interfere with YOUR plan, BUY THEM! Each of the Biggies does that. LOL
As with Anything else, there are sooooooooo many unseen factors involved in bass/instruments-in-general building that never get taken into consideration. The Wood used? Who built it? (A 12 year old kid in China who's been building basses since yesterday?) When was it shipped from the Manufacturer to the dealer? If it was on a Friday in January and it sat in a Warehouse in 9 degree weather for a week I wouldn't want it. Where was it hung in the store you ordered it from? How long did it hang in 9% humidity 3 feet from the ceiling in a Big Box Store? How many people REALLY owned it and Returned it before YOU bought it "As New"? etc.
I've played FABULOUS basses that simply received terrible prenatal care cuz the "hospital" they were born in was too big. It's really up to the dealer to make sure you get what you paid for. Is there a difference between a $200 bass and a $5,000 bass. Yup.
But.....always remember THIS quote when buying American stuff....."We'll Simply Keep Raising the Prices until they Stop Selling...then we'll back them down a little".
The More you Learn and KNOW about all facets of the Music Industry the More more Certain you become that......“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side.”~~Hunter S. Thompson
Basses are like any other Lover...We Caress them, We Adore them and we Worship them..and the Best Rule will Forever Be...."Love the One You're With".
I personally LOVE reading the threads here and would never wish anyone ill......but some Bass Players were meant to be drummers.
Basses are, IMHO, THE most important instrument in a band. ANY band can have 27 guitar players, 16 drummers and 12 keyboard players. BUT, you'll only find one Bass Player (the Highest Form of Human Life) 99.9% of the time. Why is that? It's because we're the Smartest, the Best Looking and the Funniest and Most Caring Person in the Band. Owning the PA might also have something to do with it.....but that's a story for another day.
My point.....???? I get a HUGE kick out of those who mock the BIG Instrument manufacturers....ANY of those companies.....for any reason. NONE of the "biggies" are crazy.....they simply have a need...and that need is to "Feed the Beast" and Keep the Machines running. If you're HUGE and you find someone who MIGHT become a Conflict or who might interfere with YOUR plan, BUY THEM! Each of the Biggies does that. LOL
As with Anything else, there are sooooooooo many unseen factors involved in bass/instruments-in-general building that never get taken into consideration. The Wood used? Who built it? (A 12 year old kid in China who's been building basses since yesterday?) When was it shipped from the Manufacturer to the dealer? If it was on a Friday in January and it sat in a Warehouse in 9 degree weather for a week I wouldn't want it. Where was it hung in the store you ordered it from? How long did it hang in 9% humidity 3 feet from the ceiling in a Big Box Store? How many people REALLY owned it and Returned it before YOU bought it "As New"? etc.
I've played FABULOUS basses that simply received terrible prenatal care cuz the "hospital" they were born in was too big. It's really up to the dealer to make sure you get what you paid for. Is there a difference between a $200 bass and a $5,000 bass. Yup.
But.....always remember THIS quote when buying American stuff....."We'll Simply Keep Raising the Prices until they Stop Selling...then we'll back them down a little".
The More you Learn and KNOW about all facets of the Music Industry the More more Certain you become that......“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side.”~~Hunter S. Thompson
Basses are like any other Lover...We Caress them, We Adore them and we Worship them..and the Best Rule will Forever Be...."Love the One You're With".
Attachments
I think you are confused as to the definition of "opinion" is. You could find just as many people who have had great experiences. You could find people that dig the basses you did not. Even with cars, motor bikes, etc you are speaking of your opinion. You'll find many that have the opinion that american cars are better (i.e. ford) or Victory motorcycles.
"But chocolate cake is the best because I've preferred it over vanilla all the time" does not mean that chocolate cake is better. It makes it your opinion/preference.
No, not really an opinion regarding the cars. In Sweden there is a yearly, mandatory "federal" vehicle inspection. It covers checks related to safety, structural integrety, emissions etc. (Very similar to the German inspection.) The results are public, listed per brand and model, and down to the point where anyone can go to these federal inspection sites to request the protocol for a specific car.
What cars are in the top? It sure is not anÿ American ones...
And one of our biggest insurance companies publish a regular report where they list the different brands and models and how they fare in terms of insurance covered mechanical repairs. After the warranty expires, their insurance will cover costs for air conditioning, transmission, engine, electronical modules etc up to 100 000 km.
What cars have least problems, from the top?
Toyota
Kia
Mitsubishi
Subaru
Hyundai
Honda
Lexus
Chevrolet (the ones sold here are mainly Korean models)
The worst cars:
BMW
Land Rover
Chrysler
Mini
JEEP
Porsche
MCC/Smart
Alfa Romeo
Cadillac
Rover (the worst one)
See a pattern?
And as a former employee for Mercedes Benz / Chrysler and BMW, I can only confirm the above findings, but on a more anecdotal level.
Want motorbike data? Check out the german Magazine Motorrad, and their "dauertest", where they own and run the bikes for 50 000 km, strip them down and measure all critical wear, which is then reported along with a full maintenance history. They have (as far as I know) ONE Harley competing in high position. The rest is mainly Japanese bikes. The bottom half is full of European "premium", "over engineered" bikes.
So while maintaining affordability, many Asian brands still deliver superior reliability and performance. Accept it.
No, not really an opinion regarding the cars. In Sweden there is a yearly, mandatory "federal" vehicle inspection. It covers checks related to safety, structural integrety, emissions etc. (Very similar to the German inspection.) The results are public, listed per brand and model, and down to the point where anyone can go to these federal inspection sites to request the protocol for a specific car.
What cars are in the top? It sure is not anÿ American ones...
And one of our biggest insurance companies publish a regular report where they list the different brands and models and how they fare in terms of insurance covered mechanical repairs. After the warranty expires, their insurance will cover costs for air conditioning, transmission, engine, electronical modules etc up to 100 000 km.
What cars have least problems, from the top?
Toyota
Kia
Mitsubishi
Subaru
Hyundai
Honda
Lexus
Chevrolet (the ones sold here are mainly Korean models)
The worst cars:
BMW
Land Rover
Chrysler
Mini
JEEP
Porsche
MCC/Smart
Alfa Romeo
Cadillac
Rover (the worst one)
See a pattern?
And as a former employee for Mercedes Benz / Chrysler and BMW, I can only confirm the above findings, but on a more anecdotal level.
Want motorbike data? Check out the german Magazine Motorrad, and their "dauertest", where they own and run the bikes for 50 000 km, strip them down and measure all critical wear, which is then reported along with a full maintenance history. They have (as far as I know) ONE Harley competing in high position. The rest is mainly Japanese bikes. The bottom half is full of European "premium", "over engineered" bikes.
So while maintaining affordability, many Asian brands still deliver superior reliability and performance. Accept it.
Well done. And when you start annually inspecting all Fender basses currently playing out - you will have eliminated opinion from your argument. If you're in Sweden - your MIAs have travelled overseas and perhaps through multiple owners. Thus, your argument is based on own personal opinion and, unless you've examined thousands of basses- using an inadequate sample size.
YMMV - always.
No, not really an opinion regarding the cars. In Sweden there is a yearly, mandatory "federal" vehicle inspection. It covers checks related to safety, structural integrety, emissions etc. (Very similar to the German inspection.) The results are public, listed per brand and model, and down to the point where anyone can go to these federal inspection sites to request the protocol for a specific car.
What cars are in the top? It sure is not anÿ American ones...
And one of our biggest insurance companies publish a regular report where they list the different brands and models and how they fare in terms of insurance covered mechanical repairs. After the warranty expires, their insurance will cover costs for air conditioning, transmission, engine, electronical modules etc up to 100 000 km.
What cars have least problems, from the top?
Toyota
Kia
Mitsubishi
Subaru
Hyundai
Honda
Lexus
Chevrolet (the ones sold here are mainly Korean models)
The worst cars:
BMW
Land Rover
Chrysler
Mini
JEEP
Porsche
MCC/Smart
Alfa Romeo
Cadillac
Rover (the worst one)
See a pattern?
And as a former employee for Mercedes Benz / Chrysler and BMW, I can only confirm the above findings, but on a more anecdotal level.
Want motorbike data? Check out the german Magazine Motorrad, and their "dauertest", where they own and run the bikes for 50 000 km, strip them down and measure all critical wear, which is then reported along with a full maintenance history. They have (as far as I know) ONE Harley competing in high position. The rest is mainly Japanese bikes. The bottom half is full of European "premium", "over engineered" bikes.
So while maintaining affordability, many Asian brands still deliver superior reliability and performance. Accept it.
I see you trying to compare apples to shoes. And even after all your car tests a vast majority would still consider American cars and motorcycles....you know....because it's opinion based.
I still think you are struggling with the definition of "fact". There are very few facts in this world. The world falls more into opinions and theories with the issues coming when people confuse these with facts based on personal experiences.
PS it's my opinion that Jeep rules....you know because I've owned a bunch and thought they ruled....or wait is it a fact?
