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I think I prefer solid state amps...
- Thread starter jcburn
- Start date
Fine - because IME/IMO, they aren't "as reliable" as SS amps, and I never said that tube amps are "unreliable"... Words actually mean something, and all the drama queen antics in the world won't change that...
Even Jimmy admitted that tubes themselves aren't what they used to be(common knowledge, btw) - and since tube amps need them to function, there has to be a consequence of all that...
- georgestrings
if you really listen, there is nothing more beautiful sounding than a tube pre through a SS power amp!!! even my kids notice the difference. they enjoy the Mark Bass sound very much, but when i go from my Demeter pre to the MB's loop return, they ask,...
what did you just do, Poppi??? the tone just gets super rich & creamy!!! SS can only try to emulate that kind of note bloom. and the VLE knob will not get you there, EVER! contrary to popular belief. YMMV
what did you just do, Poppi??? the tone just gets super rich & creamy!!! SS can only try to emulate that kind of note bloom. and the VLE knob will not get you there, EVER! contrary to popular belief. YMMV
I like them all - tube, hybrid, SS - and use them all, depending on the situation... My main gigging amp is a hybrid...
- georgestrings
well i still have a few old sunn SS around and they work just fine. Well they did when i last played them 15 years ago
For some reason, Norm Sundholm and Bud Ross were able to hire amp technicians and builders who built fairly reliable solid state amps. Maybe they were just lucky, but regardless of whether you like the sound of these amps they were pretty reliable.
Reliability, after you discount the lemon factor, has to be based on a few things. Just like your car, you have to have the amp checked out every once and a while, to have the pots lubed, dust removed and components inspected.
Taking care of them, means that they aren't throw around, if possible, and protected with cases and covers. All these things, being done, I would think that a tube amp would be just as reliable as a solid state amp. One thing to consider here, however, when you're looking at older solid state amplifiers, like the Ampeg BT's and Fender SS Bassman, they can be harder to get parts for than an B-15N or a Blackface Bassman. As transistors improved, and designs changed, some of the older types of transistors can be very hard to come by, tubes however are in good supply. Unfortunately, I believe, we shut down the last major U.S. tube plant some time ago.
Ric
Maybe a better question is, which kind of amp requires more service (upkeep). Well, it may be small, but you DO have to replace tubes sometimes. But, service doesn't equal unreliable, necessarily. My old '65 Fairlane 500 with points was just as reliable as my '06 Ranger, that is, unless I didn't keep up the service. It only took minutes to change the points, though, just like tubes. BUT...I'm glad to not have to change them anymore.
All it means is that I have my own personal preference.
All it means is that I have my own personal preference.
Russell,
+1 and I could probably find the points on your Fairlane 500 since there's less stuff under the hood! You make a good point, and I'm glad not to have to carry a 80 pound B-15N anymore, weight makes a big difference at least to me.IMHO
It's the Internet masquerading as TB. The arguments bloom.
Who cares? Play what you like. Say what you like. But please beware of generalizations because they are
ALwAys wrong. Just kidding, sports fans!!!
Who cares? Play what you like. Say what you like. But please beware of generalizations because they are
ALwAys wrong. Just kidding, sports fans!!!
If you are using an Ashdown ABM as your "tube amp" reference, what's the point of your thread?
That's not even close to what most people refer to as a "tube amp"; that's a standard SS/transistor amp with a single token preamp tube in it.
The number of players that truly believe these "marketing ploy" token 12AX7/ECC83 hybrids are "tube amps" amazes me; a true testament to the gullibility of the consumer market.
A lot of players, particularly casual players, prefer transistors amps over tube amps and there are unquestionably lots of practical reasons why; they're generally lighter, more forgiving, and Lord knows substantially cheaper to buy than tube amps.
Lots of watts for not a lot of money.
SS amps also often contain all kinds of cool gizmos and blinking lights that seem to fascinate a lot of players.
IMO many transistor amps sound great also, without doubt a viable tonal option to a tube behemoth; but they just sound and respond differently, particularly when YOU are the person with the axe in your hand.
Whether or not a person likes the tone of tubes over transistors or vice versa is purely personal choice.
However, I do think it's kinda funny that while there are a plethora of transistor amps that stick a token tube in the signal path, and boastfully claim to emulate that "rich, warm, tube tone", I can't think of many true tube amps whose marketing departments boast about using a transistor in the preamp (Ashdown "All Valve", vintage MM, ???) to achieve that "sterile, thin, lifeless transistor tone".
BTW, it's been my hands on experience that this "urban legend" concerning tube amps being inherently "less reliable" than transistor amps is exactly that; a myth propagated by those who just don't know any better or possibly following an "agenda", with no basis in fact.
Bassists who believe that SS amps require less maintenance, believe that SS amps require less maintenance.
I used a Bryston amp with a Furman preamp (all ss) and hated it. I had an accoustic all ss for 5-6 years and I did not realy liked it but couldn't afford to change it at the time. I had an orange all tube and loved it. I now have a hybrid and I love it too. I think I like when there is at least one tube in the amp... But it is only a question of taste and there is nothing wrong with that...
I prefer SS power amp. They just amplify.
good sound in = GOOD SOUND OUT
Pre-amps - I prefer modeling. Whatever sound I want to create I can, and send it to the Ss power amp. I model SS, and Tube amps. In any case it's the pre-amp that is going to influence the tone the most. There's no magic power level that I need to play at. I can fit into the mix at any level.
What people hear as "Clean" may in fact not be clean - but include some distortion.
I think if Tube testers were around, and people actually checked tubes they'd find that although they "make sound" the tubes aren't up to spec. They do wear out, even before transistors were on the market, techs knew this. It's documented in the old tube tech books. People just probably get by with what ever sound is coming out. They may even like the worn out tube and may be in a for a shock when they replace it.
See this thread on tube testing.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/preamp-tube-testing-vintage-tube-tester-question-837699/
Testing SS is different, they don't wear out in all practability. It's not the same.
good sound in = GOOD SOUND OUT
Pre-amps - I prefer modeling. Whatever sound I want to create I can, and send it to the Ss power amp. I model SS, and Tube amps. In any case it's the pre-amp that is going to influence the tone the most. There's no magic power level that I need to play at. I can fit into the mix at any level.
What people hear as "Clean" may in fact not be clean - but include some distortion.
I think if Tube testers were around, and people actually checked tubes they'd find that although they "make sound" the tubes aren't up to spec. They do wear out, even before transistors were on the market, techs knew this. It's documented in the old tube tech books. People just probably get by with what ever sound is coming out. They may even like the worn out tube and may be in a for a shock when they replace it.
See this thread on tube testing.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/preamp-tube-testing-vintage-tube-tester-question-837699/
Testing SS is different, they don't wear out in all practability. It's not the same.
~~~
to the OP. Your enjoyment of the BXR tone is kind of funny to me because IME, the BXR I owned/played in the early 80's was the worst sounding amp I ever used in 35 years of playing (to my ears of course, not yours). Just goes to show that the "sound in your head" that we all seek, is a very personal and individual thing. Good thing there is no law that dictates what amp you must like and use eh ?
Personally I subscribe to the "play what you like, like what you play" philosophy of bass gear. If you like how you sound (and it fits the kind of music you are playing), then you're more likely to connect with the music and be a better bass player, band member and overall musician.
I love tube amps, and currently use a Mesa WA hybrid as my main gigging amp. I have used all kinds of gear over 35 years - tube, SS, hybrid. They usually all have had something interesting going on (except the BXR ... IMO/IME
). I have also played all tube amps that were more "SS sounding" than real SS amps (Mesa Buster for example), and there are hybrids (Walkabout) that cop the "tube tone" better than some all tube amps.As far as the reliability argument goes, I have had just as many issues with SS amps as Tube amps. No matter what the technology, you have to take care of your gear.
They sure do, so be sure you use them properly or else people won't understand you clearly
They sure do, so be sure you use them properly or else people won't understand you clearly
I did - too bad you let your hysterics cloud your ability to understand them... I'm still waiting for your list of SS amps that have failed you, btw...
- georgestrings
I can give you some:
Guitar:
Marshall MG100 combo
Peavey XL head (that may have been a hybrid?)
Crate head (not sure of model)
Bass:
Marshall Dynamic Bass (real shame right there, those are awesome!)
Trace Elliot 'Series 6' head
Ashdown 'After 8' (granted, DOA)
Behringer combo (small bedroom practice amp)
Thankfully only the After 8 was mine, and that was easily sorted. Behringer combo was an ex's which let out the magic smoke. The rest were rigs belonging to (and being used by) other bands that went mid-gig.
I'd also say that there was almost a 50/50 split in terms of tube and SS amps, most of the guitarists in my playing circles love their JCM800s and JCM900s, the rest tend to make use of Peaveys with a few Mesa's, Oranges and Trace Elliots. A fair number of bassists using SVTs and Mesas, heck, even a TE or two!
Yet to have a tube amp go mid-gig. My SVT needed a re-tube when I first got it. But it was 16/17 years old, still had the factory supplied tubes and had been a filthy rent-boy for all those years! One of my mates needed some work on a Marshall, but that was a couple of really scratchy pots being replaces, a problem that can happen with both tube and SS amps.
