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I think I prefer solid state amps...
- Thread starter jcburn
- Start date
I've had great luck with both SS and tubes, never had either fail, and like both depending on the sound I'm after at the time.
If you are using an Ashdown ABM as your "tube amp" reference, what's the point of your thread?
I think this thread got a little out of hand, and even this comment at me seems to has got the poster annoyed(?) with me.
My point was that I cant believe that I bought into opinions and hype trying to find my sound, when really I should have just used my ears.
Secondly I realise the Ashdown isn't a tube amp, but it is a hybrid with a tube preamp. This ties into the point I was trying to make, as even thought echnically the Ashdown is a solid state amp, I wanted some "tubeness" to be part of my rig. Again I'm pointing the finger at myself, not knocking tube amps or the people who use them.
And before the point is made that I can run the Ashdown as solid state - yes I realise this. I think my realisation is that I would like a head with at least a 7 band graphic.
This isn't me getting snotty - just maybe trying to make my point clearer. I certainly didn't want this to become a "bashing" thread.
If you are using an Ashdown ABM as your "tube amp" reference, what's the point of your thread?
That's not even close to what most people refer to as a "tube amp"; that's a standard SS/transistor amp with a single token preamp tube in it.
The number of players that truly believe these "marketing ploy" token 12AX7/ECC83 hybrids are "tube amps" amazes me; a true testament to the gullibility of the consumer market.
A lot of players, particularly casual players, prefer transistors amps over tube amps and there are unquestionably lots of practical reasons why; they're generally lighter, more forgiving, and Lord knows substantially cheaper to buy than tube amps.
Lots of watts for not a lot of money.
SS amps also often contain all kinds of cool gizmos and blinking lights that seem to fascinate a lot of players.
IMO many transistor amps sound great also, without doubt a viable tonal option to a tube behemoth; but they just sound and respond differently, particularly when YOU are the person with the axe in your hand.
Whether or not a person likes the tone of tubes over transistors or vice versa is purely personal choice.
However, I do think it's kinda funny that while there are a plethora of transistor amps that stick a token tube in the signal path, and boastfully claim to emulate that "rich, warm, tube tone", I can't think of many true tube amps whose marketing departments boast about using a transistor in the preamp (Ashdown "All Valve", vintage MM, ???) to achieve that "sterile, thin, lifeless transistor tone".
BTW, it's been my hands on experience that this "urban legend" concerning tube amps being inherently "less reliable" than transistor amps is exactly that; a myth propagated by those who just don't know any better or possibly following an "agenda", with no basis in fact.
Huge +1
I've had problems with SS amps before...mosfet bias on a 3 Pro, fan not cooling down my SM-500 and blowing tubes till I had it wired to be on full all the time.
That's not to say I never had a problem with a tube amp...I've had to replace tubes occasionally, and my 69 SVT has a bit of a hum to it, although on my gig tonight it performed like a champ even with the noise. Sometimes I bum out over having to move it, but once I plug in and start playing, I get over it really quickly
Though I prefer tubes, I have both and I will always have both and I get why some like SS better. But way more important is HOW you play.
That's not to say I never had a problem with a tube amp...I've had to replace tubes occasionally, and my 69 SVT has a bit of a hum to it, although on my gig tonight it performed like a champ even with the noise. Sometimes I bum out over having to move it, but once I plug in and start playing, I get over it really quickly
Though I prefer tubes, I have both and I will always have both and I get why some like SS better. But way more important is HOW you play.
This thread is a bit controversial...but I should have expected that. 
There are things about tube amps that I absolutely love that just aren't inherent to any solid state amp I've ever heard or played.
There are things about solid state amps that I absolutely love that just aren't inherent to any tube amp I've ever heard or played.
I normally play a tube head, but I used one of my solid state setups last week. My guitarist and I really dug it. If I were a big star and could ask for three channels on the board at a show and have a bass tech create a complex signal chain with no signal degradation, I'd probably run a full tube and a full solid-state signal.
I disagree with the whole "the audience doesn't care, so it doesn't matter" philosophy. IME, while the audience are not audiophiles who are going to gush over the sound the guitarist gets from a vintage Plexi with corksniffer NOS tubes, the audience can distinguish between a professional sound and a less than professional sound.
I agree with George. IME - which of course is IME, I'm not an amp tech that sees numerous amps every month - all things equal, tube heads are slightly less reliable than solid state heads, even if that is an issue with tubes rather than the actual amp. I agree that a tube problem is an amp problem, because bad tubes can often kick fuses. You have to pop open most amps with a screw driver to get to the tubes, so just pulling a pair of tubes in the middle of a set isn't an option. Bottom-line: Whether gigging with SS or tubes, always have a contingency plan (i.e., DI box) in case of failure.
As far as hybrids, I wouldn't let the presence or absence of a preamp tube in a signal determine if I buy the amp. It's not a selling point for me. If I dig the amp, then I dig the amp, regardless if the front-end has a tube in it or not.
There are things about tube amps that I absolutely love that just aren't inherent to any solid state amp I've ever heard or played.
There are things about solid state amps that I absolutely love that just aren't inherent to any tube amp I've ever heard or played.
I normally play a tube head, but I used one of my solid state setups last week. My guitarist and I really dug it. If I were a big star and could ask for three channels on the board at a show and have a bass tech create a complex signal chain with no signal degradation, I'd probably run a full tube and a full solid-state signal.
I disagree with the whole "the audience doesn't care, so it doesn't matter" philosophy. IME, while the audience are not audiophiles who are going to gush over the sound the guitarist gets from a vintage Plexi with corksniffer NOS tubes, the audience can distinguish between a professional sound and a less than professional sound.
I agree with George. IME - which of course is IME, I'm not an amp tech that sees numerous amps every month - all things equal, tube heads are slightly less reliable than solid state heads, even if that is an issue with tubes rather than the actual amp. I agree that a tube problem is an amp problem, because bad tubes can often kick fuses. You have to pop open most amps with a screw driver to get to the tubes, so just pulling a pair of tubes in the middle of a set isn't an option. Bottom-line: Whether gigging with SS or tubes, always have a contingency plan (i.e., DI box) in case of failure.
As far as hybrids, I wouldn't let the presence or absence of a preamp tube in a signal determine if I buy the amp. It's not a selling point for me. If I dig the amp, then I dig the amp, regardless if the front-end has a tube in it or not.
recently used a friends mesa boogie buster mated to an ampeg 410 cab.. and to my ears it sounded flabby and rubbery... It lacked the fast response of my Solid State GK head.. it also lacked the punch of my GK... I play my GK head through a 2x15 Sunn cabinet with JBL's... so I'm on the fence for tube bass amps ... Happy as all get out with my solid state amp
First person I ever heard say the Buster sounds flabby. I've heard just the opposite...mostly I hear that it's a tube amp for those who like SS amps. Never played one but I played a D-180 for a short while in the 80's, and it was really tight, too. I wonder if there might have been a problem with your friend's Buster.
I like a nice clear and punchy tone, the buster seemed to break up easily.. I have never liked an over driven bass tone at all... I play in a classic rock band that plays out almost every weekend.. I have a very 70's motown sorta tone, play through a spector with active electronics laced with flat wounds..lol.. I just love that sound of flats .. and clarity I guess
70's Motown...I can dig it. Commodores' bass sound circa 1973 does rule. But yeah, either you're really sensitive to distortion inherent in tube amps or the dude's Buster is bustered. You've got to be pretty crazy loud to get most 200-300w tube bass amps to break up.
On tour last year the band that was surporting us left their gear at the previous town D: so the bass player who normally used Eden gear & a 5 string jazz had to use my rw 57 thru my svt cl.. He Struggled to deal with the way the notes came back at him! So I can undrstand why some people like SS over valves, as when I've had to use his amp I found like missin lots of highs & lows kept on adjusting the Eden to suit!personal presence is a good thing regardless of what trends may come & go...
I had just the tones you'd want for classic country and classic rock tonight. Sometimes dark and round, sometimes like black powder, sometimes spongy, sometimes woody, sometimes glassy. Just as punchy as the bass notes on the 88-key keyboard through that huge Roland with the 15. All with my Little Mark III and 151P cab. For sound that good, a 6 lb. head and 45 lb. cab, it's why I use solid state. It's more than enough for me to carry around so often, didn't break the bank too bad, and sounds as good as anything I know of.
Here's another thing about me, though. The sound I'm looking for isn't all about tube sound vs. SS sound. There's a sound I want that either can get. It has to do with how I blend my pickups, what the eq is, and how I manipulate the strings. I had it tonight. My old Trace Elliot would do it, too, as well as my Peavey, SWR, my old Bassman, etc., etc. It's something beyond what is being discussed here, and I'm not sure how to explain it. I guess it has to do with a certain kind of attack, but there's more to it than that. It's a punchiness with a darkness somehow.
Anyway, back to the argu...I mean, discussion.
(I still get to play my bud's VR and 810 at the blues shack every week).
Here's another thing about me, though. The sound I'm looking for isn't all about tube sound vs. SS sound. There's a sound I want that either can get. It has to do with how I blend my pickups, what the eq is, and how I manipulate the strings. I had it tonight. My old Trace Elliot would do it, too, as well as my Peavey, SWR, my old Bassman, etc., etc. It's something beyond what is being discussed here, and I'm not sure how to explain it. I guess it has to do with a certain kind of attack, but there's more to it than that. It's a punchiness with a darkness somehow.
Anyway, back to the argu...I mean, discussion.
(I still get to play my bud's VR and 810 at the blues shack every week).
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
I'm using an Epifani UL 501 head right now and it's very buttery for SS. I'm a SS guy although I miss the round smoothness that tube brings especially to the high end.
No free lunch as they say.
No free lunch as they say.
That day will never come. Well, not until all us old farts die off and theres nobody left to appreciate the sound of a tube amp.
I do have an SS (back-up) amp, but every time i play it, Im yearning for that old SVT battle-tank.
(couldnt get the flamethrower to work, so just flicked the bic instead).
That's because your tone is in your hands. It's why for a lot of us, while we have preferences in certain gear, etc., will sound like us through most anything and pull a decent sound out of it.
I've been playing regularly (2 gigs/month, practice) for the past 10 years. I started out with a ss Peavey 1x15 combo from the late 80s. It broke. Then I moved to a ss Ampeg 1x15 combo, which also broke after about 3 years of playing. Then I moved to a ss Ampeg B2RE and Ampeg 4x10. The head didn't break, but I was never quite happy with the sound. It always sounded a little sterile and too clean for my tastes. So I sold the B2RE and purchased a Musicman HD130 (yes, I know it's a guitar head). Thing thing is awesome! It's a ss preamp with a tube power amp, which is backwards from most hybrid circuits. I don't like the sound of the preamp (ss) distortion so much, but when I crank up the tube power amp this thing rocks! Warm, full sound, nice punch, and creamy distortion. But, I once had a tube explode on me, and I've burned out a screen resistor before. I've also got a Sovtek Mig-50 all-tube and a Mesa Heartbreaker (all tube) for guitar. Both have had minor problems, but nothing that wasn't easily fixed. I've actually modded out the Sovtek quite a bit over the past couple of years.
Tube amps use 1920's technology, so when something breaks they are incredibly easy and cheap to take apart and fix. No matter what part is broken inside the amp (unless you blew a transformer) the part will cost less than $5 to replace. The ss amps I've had on the other hand use PCBs with surface mount resistors - what do you do when you burn one out? You can't replace these, you need to get an entirely new circuit board, which can be hundreds of dollars! Even if it weren't for the sound, I would always choose tube for ease of maintenance. Everything breaks eventually, but the ability to fix tube amps so easily and cheaply seals the deal for me.
Tube amps use 1920's technology, so when something breaks they are incredibly easy and cheap to take apart and fix. No matter what part is broken inside the amp (unless you blew a transformer) the part will cost less than $5 to replace. The ss amps I've had on the other hand use PCBs with surface mount resistors - what do you do when you burn one out? You can't replace these, you need to get an entirely new circuit board, which can be hundreds of dollars! Even if it weren't for the sound, I would always choose tube for ease of maintenance. Everything breaks eventually, but the ability to fix tube amps so easily and cheaply seals the deal for me.
FWIW, I'm hardly a tube amp hater - in fact, I'll probably buy either an SVT or Mesa 400+ sometime this year, in addition to the M-pulse 600 and 700rb-II I already own - just because I want the option of an all-tube amp in my modest gear collection... I still own a Dean Markley guitar tube amp, and for over 10 years I gigged thru an old Marshall 100watt Super Lead... I put well over 500 gigs on that old Marshall, and it never once failed me - I did retube it every 2-3 years, but figured that as a cost of doing business, and didn't mind it at all, since the amp worked so well for me... I also used an old Twin Reverb for around 5 years, with similar results...
I have never said that tube amps are unreliable, and have always taken great pains to state that I feel any differences regarding reliability and maintainence needs are not huge between tube and SS amps - but the differences are real, nonetheless...
I'm done beating this dead horse...
- georgestrings
I have never said that tube amps are unreliable, and have always taken great pains to state that I feel any differences regarding reliability and maintainence needs are not huge between tube and SS amps - but the differences are real, nonetheless...
I'm done beating this dead horse...
- georgestrings
