I think I stop believing in expensive basses!

[MVPBASS]

yep. But you know, Talkbass has an easy answer for that: The basses are given to the artists for free so of course they use them!

I don't agree. I think these players use the expensive basses for one simple reason: They sound and feel great.

There have been many a thread here saying that the boutique basses really don't matter....and I have always asked, "where is the massive photographic evidence showing pros using cheap gear"?
And no one has been able to explain otherwise, except for posting one rare picture of a pro using a squire.

Victor Wooten was playing a Fodera way before he was famous, as was Matt Garrison who still isn't considered famous. Will Lee and Alain Caron the same. Yes, they have been given basses now, as a gift of thanks, but not back in the day.
How many Squiers do you thing they could get? How big of a check from Fender? They choose their vases because they want the best.
Do you think that Victor wouldn't be able to play the same on an SX? These artist, like me, want the best. Plain and simple

 

[fishdreams]

I own a frankenjazz from parts all over the place (it started life as a 48th St Custom with issues and now has a different neck, bridge, pots and wiring, and tuning keys), and a 'boutique' bass (Overwater).

The Frankenbass is like a Honky Tonk upright, an the Overwater is like a Steinway grand. While the Steinway is a superior instrument tonally (harmonically richer, tighter lows, very open and uncompressed sound, endless sustain) I also tend to play it like a Steinway-a tad on the 'careful' side. The Honky Tonk Upright is way more limited and inferior tonally, but has a sound of its own, and is a lot more fun (and way more forgiving) to just bang around on in a high-energy band environment where the subtleties of the Overwater would get lost anyway. I love having both.

 

[Roy Vogt]

yep. But you know, Talkbass has an easy answer for that: The basses are given to the artists for free so of course they use them!

I don't agree. I think these players use the expensive basses for one simple reason: They sound and feel great.

There have been many a thread here saying that the boutique basses really don't matter....and I have always asked, "where is the massive photographic evidence showing pros using cheap gear"?
And no one has been able to explain otherwise, except for posting one rare picture of a pro using a squire.

Most boutique builders can't afford to give away basses. So when you see Caron, Wooten, Wellington, etc. using Foderas, Fbasses and the like you need to be aware that most of those are sold to the players at "Artist" prices (still not cheap).
I think if someone's just learning or playing as a casual hobbyist a lot of times they will not be experienced enough to feel the difference.
When I first started playing my Kalamazoo EBO copy was the most wonderful thing I'd ever played-it was magical and I couldn't ever imagine a better bass. Lo and behold, a Guild Bluesbird dethroned it a couple of years later, then a Frankenfender P/J, then an Alembic, then the motley collection of "formerly used gear in my profile".
Don't get me wrong. Thanks to CNC machines we have the best inexpensive basses I've ever seen in my career as a player, bar none! But I've also been to the Fodera factory and all of that wood is dried and cured for anywhere from 50-100 years and you are definitely paying a premium price for having those players/builders build the instrument from carefully cured and selected woods. Chinese basses that cost $100 just aren't going to have the same quality-they're put together in a factory from CNC parts. I have seen some SX basses in the hands of students and they're fine for what they are. But it's not the same.
There's a definite difference in terms of feel and sound with boutique instruments. If you're playing in a Blues Band on the weekends you may not need that, but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Now, if you want to hear a Pro tearing up a MIJ Squier Jazz go see my buddy Steve Evans with Roy Rogers and The Delta Rhythm Kings or one of his touring gigs. He can make it talk!

 

[MVPBASS]

I dunno, I would put Wooten in the same club as Les Claypool. He may have awesome chops but his tone is awful.
If tone is in the hands he needs a manicure.

I'm sure that Victor Wooten loses little sleep over your opinion of his tone

 

[TAZ]

If you want to have the best and have to own a $10K bass. Well, good for you. Just don't confuse talent with quality of equipment.

 

[Alrod]

Meanwhile, players such as Victor Wooten, Anthony Jackson, Matthew Garrison, Anthony Wellington, Alain Caron, Oteil Burbridge, James Genus, Nathan Watts, Will Lee, players who could play any bass in the world, choose boutique instruments. Hmmmm

I firmly believe that you have so-called "bass players", that simply don't care about tone period. Musicians should know how to listen, but these guys claim that all basses sound the same. So all the pro players, (as well as the non pros on this site), and all the guitar builders are wrong and they are right. But my take is, If you can't hear how good of a player can you really be?

I wish TalkBass would have a "Low-End Bass forum, and a "Hi-End" forum. The Hi-End forum wouldn't necessarily be for expensive basses, but rather it would be for the players that actually care about tone and can hear a difference from one bass to the next. Let the guys who are so proud of their $100 bass hang out in the Low-End forum.

 

[Alrod]

I'm sure that Victor Wooten loses little sleep over your opinion of his tone

Or better yet why not post a clip of your playing so we can all hear what good tone sounds like? I actually posted a similar response in another thread and was told I was not being rational. Go figure

 

[Alrod]

I'm sure that Victor Wooten loses little sleep over your opinion of his tone

Envy is a horrible, horrible disease.

 

[dustinfennessey]

Envy is a horrible, horrible disease.

I don't think anyone loses sleep over what anyone else thinks of their tone...because its their tone....

 

[ksandvik]

I wish TalkBass would have a "Low-End Bass forum, and a "Hi-End" forum. The Hi-End forum wouldn't necessarily be for expensive basses, but rather it would be for the players that actually care about tone and can hear a difference from one bass to the next. Let the guys who are so proud of their $100 bass hang out in the Low-End forum.

This is why most of the sixties Motown and other pop track bass tone is crap compared with today's boutique bass sound.......... Poor Jamerson, but if he read talkbass in future he would hang out in the Low-End forum section.

 

[MVPBASS]

Or better yet why not post a clip of your playing so we can all hear what good tone sounds like? I actually posted a similar response in another thread and was told I was not being rational. Go figure

I agree, if he's going to critique a respected, game changing bassist like Victor Wooten, he should be forced to post clips of the way tone, his tone, is supposed to sound

 

[MVPBASS]

This is why most of the sixties Motown and other pop track bass tone is crap compared with today's boutique bass sound.......... Poor Jamerson, but if he read talkbass in future he would hang out in the Low-End forum section.

I dissagree. A) in his day, Jamersons bass was considered high end and B) by todays standards, Jamerson probably wouldn't be happy with his tone from the 60s because he was limited by the technology back then

 

[Roy Vogt]

This is why most of the sixties Motown and other pop track bass tone is crap compared with today's boutique bass sound.......... Poor Jamerson, but if he read talkbass in future he would hang out in the Low-End forum section.

The Fender Precision was the State of the Art Bass in the 1960s, even more so than the Jazz. All the Pro Studio Players used one (Jamerson, Kaye, Babbitt, Bennett, etc.) because it was far and away the best choice as far as consistent tone and feel. The only other options would have been Gibson, Hofner, Hagstrom, Framus, Rickenbacker, Guild and the budget lines like Silvertone and Danelectro. The Fender was the "Pro's Axe". So, it would have been High End.
Ironically, I remember an interview with Chuck Rainey in the mid-70s when he said "The Alembic I won't even buy-it's not a bass at all!" Of course, if you've followed Chuck you've seen him play Spector, Smith, Warrior, Warwick so he's definitely checked out the choices in the last 4 decades.
On a production side, all those Old Motown tracks have clams, timing oddities, pitch issues and all the rest of the stuff we can Autotune and Beat Doctor out now in Pro Tools. And they are magic and feel wonderful! "It's the pilot, not the plane."

 

[MtManiac]

I firmly believe that you have so-called "bass players", that simply don't care about tone period. Musicians should know how to listen, but these guys claim that all basses sound the same. So all the pro players, (as well as the non pros on this site), and all the guitar builders are wrong and they are right. But my take is, If you can't hear how good of a player can you really be?

I wish TalkBass would have a "Low-End Bass forum, and a "Hi-End" forum. The Hi-End forum wouldn't necessarily be for expensive basses, but rather it would be for the players that actually care about tone and can hear a difference from one bass to the next. Let the guys who are so proud of their $100 bass hang out in the Low-End forum.

Maybe we could just ship all these Low-end bassists to Finland or Poland while we're at it. And the High-end forum would still be filled with SX Jazz players bashing American Fender P players, and rounds players bashing flats players, and so on. Maybe the solution is to put each one of us in our own forum so we can be sure to have somebody to talk to who agrees with us.

Or maybe we should just grow up and tolerate differences of opinion. Hey!

 

[ksandvik]

I dissagree. A) in his day, Jamersons bass was considered high end and B) by todays standards, Jamerson probably wouldn't be happy with his tone from the 60s because he was limited by the technology back then

I have not seen Jamerson's Precision (has anyone recently?) but to compare this one with an active electronics high end bass with modern strings compared with rusty same-string-set forever one is stretching it a little bit. Still, he sounded fantastic!

 

[Roy Vogt]

I have not seen Jamerson's Precision (has anyone recently?) but to compare this one with an active electronics high end bass with modern strings compared with rusty same-string-set forever one is stretching it a little bit. Still, he sounded fantastic!

Joe Osborne had the same set of Labella Flatwounds on his '60 Jazz Bass in the 80s when he was active recording in Nashville, so he had had the strings on there for 25+ years at that point. Still, as a C.O.G.(Certified Old Guy) who was just becoming aware of Studio Musicians in the early 70s I can vouch for the fact that the Fender Precision was considered State of the Art for most studio work at the time. It was considered high end in the mid-60s, because Alembic was still several years away from Jack Cassidy's prototype which was the game changer for creating the whole boutique Electric Bass concept.
I wish someone would see James' bass! It needs to be back with his family. Now that the Bass of Doom has been recovered, it's the Holy Grail of Bassdom.
No argument about Jamerson sounding fantastic. "It's the pilot, not the plane."

 

[bass12]

Or better yet why not post a clip of your playing so we can all hear what good tone sounds like? I actually posted a similar response in another thread and was told I was not being rational. Go figure

You're not being rational. It's an opinion. It's no big deal. Get over it.

 

[Alrod]

This is why most of the sixties Motown and other pop track bass tone is crap compared with today's boutique bass sound.......... Poor Jamerson, but if he read talkbass in future he would hang out in the Low-End forum section.

I think Jamerson cared about his tone a lot. So why would he hang out in the Low-End forum? Where in my post did I say Hi-end would be for boutique basses only?

 

[MVPBASS]

I have not seen Jamerson's Precision (has anyone recently?) but to compare this one with an active electronics high end bass with modern strings compared with rusty same-string-set forever one is stretching it a little bit. Still, he sounded fantastic!

As I said, back in Jamersons time, when he was alive, the Fender Precision WAS considered state of the art. To assume that he would still be playing his Fender Precision, with the same set of strings ,if he were still alive, could also be considered stretching it a little. Argue all you want, though.

 

[Alrod]

Maybe we could just ship all these Low-end bassists to Finland or Poland while we're at it. And the High-end forum would still be filled with SX Jazz players bashing American Fender P players, and rounds players bashing flats players, and so on. Maybe the solution is to put each one of us in our own forum so we can be sure to have somebody to talk to who agrees with us.

Or maybe we should just grow up and tolerate differences of opinion. Hey!

With all due respect, i believe you have mis-read my post. I stated that "The Hi-End forum wouldn't necessarily be for expensive basses, but rather it would be for the players that actually care about tone and can hear a difference from one bass to the next." If one cannot hear a difference in tone, what possible value could he add to a tone based discussion? Why bother even posting on tone? That is what I am talking about.

It's kind of like being on a Ferrari forum and someone asking for performance tips. Someone with a Yugo chimes in and says my 3 cylinder is all you need.

Your following comment is a bit ironic don't you think?

"Or maybe we should just grow up and tolerate differences of opinion. Hey!"