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I think I stop believing in expensive basses!

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#303
Alrod said:
With all due respect, i believe you have mis-read my post. I stated that "The Hi-End forum wouldn't necessarily be for expensive basses, but rather it would be for the players that actually care about tone and can hear a difference from one bass to the next." If one cannot hear a difference in tone, what possible value could he add to a tone based discussion? Why bother even posting on tone? That is what I am talking about.

It's kind of like being on a Ferrari forum and someone asking for performance tips. Someone with a Yugo chimes in and says my 3 cylinder is all you need.

Your following comment is a bit ironic don't you think?

"Or maybe we should just grow up and tolerate differences of opinion. Hey!"
Click to expand...

You could not be more right! And that is exactly what happens on this forum, continually. In no other field of endeavor to people take such immense pride in the cheapest, beginner brand gear then they do right here on talkbass.

Here is the argument as I see it:

"I am lusting over a new ferrari"!

"meh, keep your ferrari, I'll stick with my yugo"

"But the ferrari is clearly a superior machine"

"It's not the car, it's the driver"
 
#304
lucas vigor said:
You could not be more right! And that is exactly what happens on this forum, continually. In no other field of endeavor to people take such immense pride in the cheapest, beginner brand gear then they do right here on talkbass.

Here is the argument as I see it:

"I am lusting over a new ferrari"!

"meh, keep your ferrari, I'll stick with my yugo"

"But the ferrari is clearly a superior machine"

"It's not the car, it's the driver"
Click to expand...

A modern Tesla would beat a 4x more expensive Ferrari concerning acceleration. Just shows how technology has made equipment both *cheaper* and *better*. But the Ferrari owner would of course need excuses for his expensive investment, that's for sure.
 
#306
Alrod said:
Your following comment is a bit ironic don't you think?

"Or maybe we should just grow up and tolerate differences of opinion. Hey!"
Click to expand...

Nope, that's not ironic at all. I just don't advocate separating people based on differences of opinion. I say vive les differences. But the French have a different word for everything! If it's your opinion that we should all have a separate forum for those you consider "low" and "high" based on criteria you feel is important, you're entitled to your opinion! And good luck to you! My opinion is that is an ultra-elitist opinion and ultimately unproductive as you'd still find differences between those who attribute tone to various factors an those who don't.
 
#307
ksandvik said:
A modern Tesla would beat a 4x more expensive Ferrari concerning acceleration. Just shows how technology has made equipment both *cheaper* and *better*. But the Ferrari owner would of course need excuses for his expensive investment, that's for sure.
Click to expand...

Ok, I just looked it up.

Tesla Roadster 0-60 in 3.9 seconds.
Tesla Roadster top speed 125mph.
Price $109,000 (x4 = $436,000)

Ferrari 458, 0-60 in 3 seconds.
Ferrari 458 top speed 201mph.
Price $229,825

Sorry but your math just doesn't add up. Cheaper yes. Better? no. Typical extreme spewing out of non-facts to try and make a point. This happens a lot here. Mostly from Yugo owners.
 
#308
BillMason said:
Nope, that's not ironic at all. I just don't advocate separating people based on differences of opinion. I say vive les differences. But the French have a different word for everything! If it's your opinion that we should all have a separate forum for those you consider "low" and "high" based on criteria you feel is important, you're entitled to your opinion! And good luck to you! My opinion is that is an ultra-elitist opinion and ultimately unproductive as you'd still find differences between those who attribute tone to various factors an those who don't.
Click to expand...

But do you seriously think that if someone cannot hear a difference between guitars, that they should comment on a forum where people can hear differences? Especially by boldly stating they there are no differences, simply because they say so?

Look at the post below about the Tesla and Ferrari. Had that not been looked up, people would have taken it as fact that the Tesla is faster and 4 times cheaper. That type of nonsense is simply not helpful. At least not to folks that can hear a difference and just want a relevant opinion. I hope you get what I am trying to say.
 
#309
Alrod said:
Ok, I just looked it up.

Tesla Roadster 0-60 in 3.9 seconds.
Tesla Roadster top speed 125mph.
Price $109,000 (x4 = $436,000)

Ferrari 458, 0-60 in 3 seconds.
Ferrari 458 top speed 201mph.
Price $229,825

Sorry but your math just doesn't add up. Cheaper yes. Better? no. Typical extreme spewing out of non-facts to try and make a point. This happens a lot here. Mostly from Yugo owners.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the massive amount of pollution it takes to mine the ore for the batteries, ship it to Japan or China for processing and back to the States so it can be assembled as part of a car. Then, relying on the power company to charge your battery every 6-8 hours so you can drive. Starting out with a HUGE carbon footprint and the returns are very slow until an owner really starts to leave zero emissions.:D:hiding:
 
#311
Just Thumpin' said:
We have done this at the shop on any number of occasions for friends that own an instrument that cannot afford a new one of our instruments. We put in our pups and one of our preamps and do a complete set-up. They DO sound greatly improved...no question. But counting labor costs and parts you no longer are playing a $300 bass, you have now stepped up to a $1,000 bass AND even though it is better, they in no way shape or form sound or play like a custom built instrument (or even our Standard line, which are built the same way as our Customs but all share the same specs). Again, this is based on many, many real world examples that I have personally experienced...not just conjecture.

That said, the wonderful thing about people is that there are all different kinds. Some will like a $199 bass and play it happily their whole lives and some will want every specification of their instrument to be customized to their liking and are willing to pay what that costs to do. The key thing is knowing who you are and getting pleasure out of the decisions that you have made.

The sad thing about these threads is that folks seem to insist that others buy in to their way of thinking which is, IMHO, just plain wrong. Either of the follow statements (and so many like them) are BOTH 100% correct for the person that makes them:

"Boutique Basses are over-priced. My $X so-and-so sounds and plays as great as any bass that I have played regardless of cost."

"The amazing feel and tone that I get out of my Custom Bass is well worth the price I paid."

Oh, and by the way, although "wood is wood," having rubbed my knuckles raw any number of times tapping hundreds of pieces of it when selecting material for our instruments...you would be flat out amazed at just how different a great piece of wood and a mediocre one sounds. When we build our instruments, the mediocre pieces get cut up and put into the trash...heck we have cut up and rebuilt entire instruments that we did not like the sound of. I am virtually certain that this hyper attention to detail is not part of the build process for a $199 instrument (or for many $1,000 instruments, for that matter).

Details like wood selection, hand-carving, the ability to modify any specification, using only the finest electronics and hardware, having folks that have been building for 30 years working on your instrument all do make for a very different end result. However, whether or not those differences matter is 100% pure personal opinion...always has been and always will be and no amount of back and forth on TB will change that. Viva la Difference!
Click to expand...

Amen!
 
#312
I'm all about cheap basses nowadays. I had a Squier VMJ & VMP & truth be told, I miss them both & will probably pick one of each up again. I didn't care about beating on them or them getting knocked around. Just throw a bridge, nut & tuners on them, set em up & they're good to go. There's a certain bent appeal to rocking out $250-300 basses, makes people look at you funny. & there's nothing like knocking the nose down on a gear snob after they sneered at your set up...:bassist::spit::ninja:
 
#313
51pbass said:
It does not mater if it is a zillion dollar bass or a $100 bass. If you like it,if it plays well,sounds good,records well--------------- PLAY IT !! It is really all about puttin' the grease in the groove .
Click to expand...

Exactly, if you like it, play it, but don't knock other people just because they choose to play something else
 
#316
lucas vigor said:
"It's not the car, it's the driver"
Click to expand...

Well, if you're going to go there...

There is an analogy in the car world. A few years back I club raced an old ('79) Porsche 911. A screaming 172hp (at the crank, even less at the wheels), no ABS, no traction control. I would routinely share the track (and later instruct) guys with new Porsches that were by every metric a superior machine. Yet I often could turn faster laps. The times I got behind the wheel of their cars (would occasionally do that if a student wanted me to) I could certainly go faster than in my car. But usually I didn't care - I liked my old, cantankerous, hopelessly lo-tech machine. It evoked a different time and place. It was a time machine.

There would invariably be guys who would pop up and ask why I didn't own a Subie STI or Evo. After all, way faster and a lot cheaper. And in fact I owned a WRX as a daily driver for awhile, and tracked it once. Yes, they were fast, especially for the number of cubic dollars spent. But they didn't move me. There was something about an air-cooled flat 6 behind me that scratched an itch. And pushing that car to the ragged edge was more fun than "upgrading" to get faster lap times. As the saying goes, more fun to drive a slow car fast than the other way around.

A long way of saying I get why people like vintage instruments, and I get why people like inexpensive instruments. But I also get why people own a GT3, even if they aren't Hurley Haywood.

Oh, and I don't own the '79 any more. The last $10K tranny rebuild was the end of my racing career. Instead I spend my racing money on basses. And in that case, it is new GT3 all the way :D
 
#320
Alrod said:
Ok, I just looked it up.

Tesla Roadster 0-60 in 3.9 seconds.
Tesla Roadster top speed 125mph.
Price $109,000 (x4 = $436,000)

Ferrari 458, 0-60 in 3 seconds.
Ferrari 458 top speed 201mph.
Price $229,825

Sorry but your math just doesn't add up. Cheaper yes. Better? no. Typical extreme spewing out of non-facts to try and make a point. This happens a lot here. Mostly from Yugo owners.
Click to expand...

Or just buy a Hayabusa for $14000. Drop another $3000 into the engine and destroy pretty much any car on the road. Hell, stock off the show room floor it wipes up almost any car. And pre 2000 they had a top speed that matched the Ferrari.
And have about $210,000 left over for traffic tickets and bail.

dougazbass said:
I think the point of deminishing returns for bass quality (new bass prices) is in the 1500-2000 range. Used can be 800-1500.
Click to expand...

+1
 
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