Hey Frizzle Fry If you want to start playing jazz I suggest you find a jazz oriented instructor to help you. Learn how to read music, and learn your scales they are so important! Then learn your modes - those are your most vital tools - Start learning theory and how to use it whan analyzing chorde charts - I would suggest to you that You start with a bunch of simple medium swing blues tune s learn how to walk and how to solo using the appropriate key changes!!!
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I wanna play JAZZ!
- Thread starter TheFrizzleFry
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YEAH, that's been something I've been meaning to do, learn to read music. Where is the best place online to learn to read music. Also, what are the most vital scales. So far I've memorized the major scale, that penatonic one, and some crazy chinese soundin' one. Any other recommendations?
Pick 2 tunes - i'd recommend Autumn Leaves and Misty - and learn them backwards, forwards, sideways. Play the melody, walk, chords even and combine all of these to get the tune across.
These 2 tunes are good for this as the melody is one to whistle while playing that shows how chords work with melodies, and fairly obvious harmonies will present themselves. Misty is tougher because the melody moves over the chords differently, but with both to work on, practice and whistle constantly you should stay inspired for the 93yrs required for mortals to play jazz like heavens foremost!
These 2 tunes are good for this as the melody is one to whistle while playing that shows how chords work with melodies, and fairly obvious harmonies will present themselves. Misty is tougher because the melody moves over the chords differently, but with both to work on, practice and whistle constantly you should stay inspired for the 93yrs required for mortals to play jazz like heavens foremost!
And Spyro Gyra, Norman Brown, Al Jarreau and David Sanborn aren't schmaltz either. Now maybe Lawrence Welk is schmaltz. Nah! I don't like to belittle other people's preferences in music any more than their preferences in fashion or lifestyle.
To call a certain style of music schmaltz is to belittle the music and the taste of someone who likes it. Too bad. I don't like to do that here.
To call a certain style of music schmaltz is to belittle the music and the taste of someone who likes it. Too bad. I don't like to do that here.
- Apr 1, 2000
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- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
Rock on, JO! I happen to dig every one of those artists.
Plus if you dis Al or Dave, you dis Marcus, and I ain't gonna do that!
Plus if you dis Al or Dave, you dis Marcus, and I ain't gonna do that!
Marcus Miller is DA MAN!
Anyway, sometimes I feel like such a DORK because I like FourPlay and occasional Rick Braun. No one gets so beat up here at TalkBass as a fan of "Easy Listening." But, funny, I call VH-1 selections "Easy Listening," not Pat Metheny and Russ Freeman.
This morning I turned on the DMX "Jazz Vocals and Instrumentals" channel. Norman Brown was playing. I laughed out loud, feeling positively rebellious, defiantly listening to Mr. Brown while daring to interlope in the land of jazz elitists.
Anyway, sometimes I feel like such a DORK because I like FourPlay and occasional Rick Braun. No one gets so beat up here at TalkBass as a fan of "Easy Listening." But, funny, I call VH-1 selections "Easy Listening," not Pat Metheny and Russ Freeman.
This morning I turned on the DMX "Jazz Vocals and Instrumentals" channel. Norman Brown was playing. I laughed out loud, feeling positively rebellious, defiantly listening to Mr. Brown while daring to interlope in the land of jazz elitists.
Well, this is an interesting discussion and the problem of defining what is Jazz will probably never go away. I can see all the points of view and why there is a difference of opinion. If you are just listening to Jazz, then the stuff that is most highly recommended is often the most dense and hard- going. Whereas, some of the "smoother" stuff has high production values, often has good grooves and sounds like the musicians know what they're doing.
But the big difference comes when you actually start to try to play Jazz and I know that I like to play stuff that challenges me and that actually teaches me something. Jazz is a wonderful continuing education about music and the best tunes always have something to teach you. I find that playing new tunes that have something different in their construction - melodically, harmonicaly or rhythmically is a "painless" way of learning and getting these ideas in your head - if I had to do the same thing just by studying books I would never make the same progress and would probably just give up though boredom.
But when you look at some of the "easier listening" tunes, you often find that the players are just soloing over a two-chord vamp and that very little original thought or work has gone into the composition - in short it has nothing to teach me and there is no real interest. I might still be interested in some of the things you mention - like Nathan East's grooves, but really the harmonic interest isn't always there. I love funk music and playing the basslines - but again there is often very little harmonic interest and the players will settle into the two-chord vamp thing, which is good for dancing. Same with a lot of Latin music - Salsa particularly - I'm getting very bored with alot of the tunes my band plays and I would love to play more "real" Jazz with interesting chord sequences to play with.
So for me the difference is probably from the playing point of view and this is where the real appreciation of the craft comes in - I often find in attending Jazz gigs that nearly all the audience are people who play Jazz themselves on a semi-pro basis.
- Apr 1, 2000
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- 9,835
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
You go, girl! I'm with you.
Also, it's waaaaay harder (more challenging, forces you to stretch) to solo over a two chord vamp and come up with something interesting. When you've got static harmony (let's say "Mr. Magic"), you've got to really have your stuff together to not get stale fast.
...don't forget Marcus' time with Spryro Gyra(City Kids &/or Icognito; two of my personal favorites. Also appearing throught SG's history-
Will Lee, Eddie Gomez, Kim Stone, Oscar Cartaya, Scott Ambush...some pretty decent players).
As far as Jarreau-
...Nathan East, Abe Laboriel, Stanley Clarke have played on various records(maybe those from the '80s?).
I don't have so much a problem with SG or Sanborn or Jarreau; the schmaltz occurs when the "music" is an obvious PRODUCT(not "art"). And that's totally subjective...if you like what you hear, that's great!
FWIW-
...I don't solo(rare situations only); honestly, I think I prefer something with one or two chords(or better, NONE)vs. a chord-laden tune like "Donna Lee". That's me, though.
(& damn, I used the "solo" word in one of MY posts; c'mon, Bruce, bail me out!).
Will Lee, Eddie Gomez, Kim Stone, Oscar Cartaya, Scott Ambush...some pretty decent players).
As far as Jarreau-
...Nathan East, Abe Laboriel, Stanley Clarke have played on various records(maybe those from the '80s?).
I don't have so much a problem with SG or Sanborn or Jarreau; the schmaltz occurs when the "music" is an obvious PRODUCT(not "art"). And that's totally subjective...if you like what you hear, that's great!
FWIW-
...I don't solo(rare situations only); honestly, I think I prefer something with one or two chords(or better, NONE)vs. a chord-laden tune like "Donna Lee". That's me, though.
(& damn, I used the "solo" word in one of MY posts; c'mon, Bruce, bail me out!).
This has just been the meatiest, coolest thread. It is so refreshing to get many well-explained points of view on something other than picks vs fingers or Fieldy vs Flea.
i guess this goes with the thread so ill ask this. i play in our schools jazz band and i want to learn to improvise a lot better so the teacher doesnt let all the bass players that try out in (she let 2 others in and 1 could barely play (even after i attempted to help him) but anyway next year when i try out i want to try to make the try out music more interesting that just scales. so should i try to learn scales and arpeggios and try to incorperate them into my playing? also im planning on buying the jazz theory book so will that have the stuff i should learn?
YES!
If you go through The Jazz Theory book, try all the examples and really learn this stuff, you will have a big advantage over most people!
Seriously, it starts with the easy stuff an works through more and more complex ideas - I still haven't go to the end yet! But it's definitely got everything you need to learn.
Originally posted by JimK
...
FWIW-
...I don't solo(rare situations only); honestly, I think I prefer something with one or two chords(or better, NONE)vs. a chord-laden tune like "Donna Lee". That's me, though.
(& damn, I used the "solo" word in one of MY posts; c'mon, Bruce, bail me out!).
Well as I said I like funk tunes with two chord vamps and enjoy soloing over them; but I feel that I learn more from a tune like Donna Lee or Lee Konitz's "Thinging" where the key centre is changing gradually from bar to bar.
There is so much in Jazz to learn about harmonically and I have so little time to practice this stuff, that I would rather spend that time on a tune that teaches me a lot, rather than on something I know I can do easily.
This is one of the things they always say at the beginning of the Jazz Summerschool I attend - that is : practice what you don't know or can't play well, rather than things you do know or can play well.
The tutors always complain (its a residential course) that they always hear people in their rooms practising the same old licks.
I think what happens then, is the more you practice this stuff the more you get into it and search out tunes with more interest. My local Jazz tutor always seems to come up with interesting tunes and he hates things with two chord vamps - but it's not because he can't do it - at one of the Summerschools, he was press-ganged into playing on Stevie Wonder's "I Wish" and played a truly wonderful solo, which brough the house down!
I quoted elsewhere about a conversation on a UK documentary between Keith Jarrett and Miles Davis - why don't you play ballads anymore? Miles - because I like playing ballads.
Couple more quotes for ya-
1)"Practice without memory."
-Ornette Coleman
(I'm pretty much "there" now).
...and I just read these last night(in the "electric period" of Miles book by Tingen).
2)"Anybody can play. The note is only 20%. The attitude of the motherf***er playing the note is 80%. That's what's important."
-Miles
3)"Play what you know AND above what you know".
-Miles
(Note that Miles sez "AND"...what he means is playing "above what you know" all the time ain't happenin').
1)"Practice without memory."
-Ornette Coleman
(I'm pretty much "there" now).
...and I just read these last night(in the "electric period" of Miles book by Tingen).
2)"Anybody can play. The note is only 20%. The attitude of the motherf***er playing the note is 80%. That's what's important."
-Miles
3)"Play what you know AND above what you know".
-Miles
(Note that Miles sez "AND"...what he means is playing "above what you know" all the time ain't happenin').
Hmmm...maybe I shouldn't have quoted Miles, as there were obviously times when his mind was shot away with long periods of drug abuse. I should have just stuck with the advice I have been given by various tutors who while not as well-known as Miles, are at least consistent and reliable.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=9896&highlight=walk
Try this thread. I put it up in "General instruction" a few months ago. This is strictly about walking/swinging 4 to the bar.
Note that this is only one KIND of "jazz", but it seems to be one that a great many people really mean when they say "jazz". This style started with Dixieland, went through Louis armstrong's "hot jazz" through big band and then to bebop and free jazz before funk and fusion pushed the "4-on-the-floor" thing out of the limelight. But there are so many walking jazz enthusiasts (our friend Mr. Fuqua among them) that it has survived.
Try this thread. I put it up in "General instruction" a few months ago. This is strictly about walking/swinging 4 to the bar.
Note that this is only one KIND of "jazz", but it seems to be one that a great many people really mean when they say "jazz". This style started with Dixieland, went through Louis armstrong's "hot jazz" through big band and then to bebop and free jazz before funk and fusion pushed the "4-on-the-floor" thing out of the limelight. But there are so many walking jazz enthusiasts (our friend Mr. Fuqua among them) that it has survived.
