I was told this at my audition.....

[40Hz]

We didn't have multitudes of folks signed up to play instruments or be singers.

Anyway, at rehearsal last night it was just a train wreck. I am used to preparing material, working out arrangements, keys, parts, etc so it was all I could do to keep my mouth shut.

I had similar issues back when I was involved with “church music.” Because I’m very much all about the music. And even though I was sometimes the MD, my hands were often tied.

For example, I wasn't even allowed to audition people at one place. The pastor was of the opinion that anyone who wanted to be a part of the service should be allowed to do so. When I (very politely!) objected, he reminded me: “This isn’t about performance. It’s about community and participation.”

So I did the best I could with what I had to work with. And I’ll admit I had thought about quitting after a few musical disasters. But that decision was ultimately taken care of for me when a certain high ranking parish council member argued at a board meeting that since I wasn’t a “formal member” of their congregation (a friend who was at that meeting said her term for me was “an outsider”), I shouldn’t even be a part of their congregation’s music program, let alone acting as its director.

So I got the word from the pastor the end of the next service. And when I asked him whatever happened to “community” and “participation” and “all” he said it was supposed to be all about, he just shrugged apologetically.

Religious assemblies. Too funny sometimes.

 

[Deeper Texan]

I had similar issues back when I was involved with “church music.” Because I’m very much all about the music. And even though I was sometimes the MD, my hands were often tied.

For example, I wasn't even allowed to audition people at one place. The pastor was of the opinion that anyone who wanted to be a part of the service should be allowed to do so. When I (very politely!) objected, he reminded me: “This isn’t about performance. It’s about community and participation.”

So I did the best I could with what I had to work with. And I’ll admit I had thought about quitting after a few musical disasters. But that decision was ultimately taken care of for me when a certain high ranking parish council member argued at a board meeting that since I wasn’t a “formal member” of their congregation (a friend who was at that meeting said her term for me was “an outsider”), I shouldn’t even be a part of their congregation’s music program, let alone acting as its director.

So I got the word from the pastor the end of the next service. And when I asked him whatever happened to “community” and “participation” and “all” he said it was supposed to be all about, he just shrugged apologetically.

Religious assemblies. Too funny sometimes.

Empathy like.

Sounds like they wanted you to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, by using the burlap and steel wool they forced on you. And when that didn't happen, you were the convenient scapegoat.
Our main issue, is, and has continued to be, getting anyone interested in being part of the music ministry. I understand that it is a volunteer position, that does require some dedication but, one rehearsal per week, at home practice, run through before the service, and usually only three songs played during the service, does not require anyone to totally, restructure their lifestyle.

 

[40Hz]

Empathy like.

Sounds like they wanted you to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, by using the burlap and steel wool they forced on you. And when that didn't happen, you were the convenient scapegoat.

I think it was less a matter of being scapegoated, and simply just not being a member of “the club.” The issue of less than stellar music performance wasn’t raised at all. This board member’s sole objection was the fact I was a an “outsider” heading their music group, and (again in her words) “the message it was sending.”

So I had to conclude it was all about optics and nothing else. My replacement fared no better at improving the quality of the music. But she was “church,” so no worries, right?

Our main issue, is, and has continued to be, getting anyone interested in being part of the music ministry. I understand that it is a volunteer position, that does require some dedication but, one rehearsal per week, at home practice, run through before the service, and usually only three songs played during the service, does not require anyone to totally, restructure their lifestyle.

Coincides with my long held opinion that most people are more into the lifestyle, rather than the life, of a musician.

 

[electracoyote]

EADG is EADG, and that might lead a lot of people to assume if you know what to do on a guitar you'll know what to do on a bass guitar.

Some guitar players understand the different mindset of a bass player. I learned the two instruments simultaneously and I'm proficient on both, play in performance situations equally on both. I know a lot of guitar players who are like me, fine bass players if needed.

But I'll never forget the day one particular (very good) guitar player wanted to try my bass at rehearsal. He fairly throttled the thing so bad we all cringed and I had to cut him off. I still have no idea what the hell he was trying to do, it was just a cacophony of noise and clank that if sustained probably could have damaged a speaker. So it's not a given that if you play guitar you will be a good bass player.

 

[Joe Nerve]

This is my favorite argument.

All guitarists CAN play bass, and I'm certain of it.

Many can play even better than some bassists.

To be a really good bass player it takes a different mindset, for sure - and many guitarist have a tough time shifting gears, BUT... most listeners could never discern the difference. Unless its a truly exceptional bass player, or a truly bad guitarist playing bass.

Bass is also easier than guitar. And I'll argue that to the grave too . Just for fun.

But I do really believe it to be true. Not sure why so many argue it.

 

[Deeper Texan]

This is my favorite argument.

All guitarists CAN play bass, and I'm certain of it.

Many can play even better than some bassists.

To be a really good bass player it takes a different mindset, for sure - and many guitarist have a tough time shifting gears, BUT... most listeners could never discern the difference. Unless its a truly exceptional bass player, or a truly bad guitarist playing bass.

Bass is also easier than guitar. And I'll argue that to the grave too . Just for fun.

But I do really believe it to be true. Not sure why so many argue it.

I cannot dispute any of your arguments. If I can learn to play bass anyone can.
I never played guitar until I was 38 years old. I self taught myself to play chords, some finger picking, but that was it. I never studied music theory, did not grasp the circle of fifths, etc. But it was only a pastime. Something I did, to be able to compose some songs and play along with my poor attempt at singing.
When I was learning the bass, the internet world had evolved to the point, that there was so much more info available. I went all in, maybe out of fear of embarrassing myself on stage. I am a technical person, so my learning style was very mechanical. Because I had never played in a band, It took me a while to “feel” how the bass, fit in to the overall sound. It took me at least a year, before I felt confident, in my playing. As I have said, I will never try to compare myself to accomplished bassists. I marvel at what others can do, but I'm happy where I am, and blessed to be able to contribute, in my small way.

 

[1st Bass]

I had similar issues back when I was involved with “church music.” Because I’m very much all about the music. And even though I was sometimes the MD, my hands were often tied.

For example, I wasn't even allowed to audition people at one place. The pastor was of the opinion that anyone who wanted to be a part of the service should be allowed to do so. When I (very politely!) objected, he reminded me: “This isn’t about performance. It’s about community and participation.”

So I did the best I could with what I had to work with. And I’ll admit I had thought about quitting after a few musical disasters. But that decision was ultimately taken care of for me when a certain high ranking parish council member argued at a board meeting that since I wasn’t a “formal member” of their congregation (a friend who was at that meeting said her term for me was “an outsider”), I shouldn’t even be a part of their congregation’s music program, let alone acting as its director.

So I got the word from the pastor the end of the next service. And when I asked him whatever happened to “community” and “participation” and “all” he said it was supposed to be all about, he just shrugged apologetically.

Religious assemblies. Too funny sometimes.

I’m sorry you experienced that. People are people, and subject to folly regardless of their world view and their faith. I have had similar experiences, both with some truly horrendous “music” (no one bothered to tune to a standard of any sort: they were quite resistant to the idea of at least tuning to the piano... and it turned out the piano itself was so out of tune that you could literally hear all three separate strings when you played any midrange note) annnd, the “you aren’t a member, you have no voice in this meeting” (after attending there for eight or ten years and teaching Bible there for about five.)
Ah, well: Jesus was rejected by formal religion, too. Don’t allow it to make you cynical.

BTW, in the small church in which I serve, I have taught for 21 years, led singing with a 12-string acoustic for about 20, and served as a pastor for eight. But we have no “membership roll,” so that has not been an issue. I paid to have the piano tuned, some of the really bad players eventually died off (age and disease) and a decent piano-player finally showed up. All of us are volunteers, so no one feels shorted, including me. And the church is growing in good ways. I feel blessed to be there.

 

[40Hz]

People are people, and subject to folly regardless of their world view and their faith.

Oh, I understand that quite well. At the end of the day, people will always be what they are. Which is to say: people. Faith is no defense against narrow mindedness, jealousy, intolerance, or lack of empathy and understanding - despite all its exhortations against that sort of behavior.

We get the world we make, and play the hand we’re dealt. That goes with the gift of free will.

It’s all good.

 

[BassDad1964]

This is my favorite argument.

All guitarists CAN play bass, and I'm certain of it.

Many can play even better than some bassists.

To be a really good bass player it takes a different mindset, for sure - and many guitarist have a tough time shifting gears, BUT... most listeners could never discern the difference. Unless its a truly exceptional bass player, or a truly bad guitarist playing bass.

Bass is also easier than guitar. And I'll argue that to the grave too . Just for fun.

But I do really believe it to be true. Not sure why so many argue it.

And you did argue it too!!

I went to the Sunday morning service after that Thursday evening rehearsal that was a train wreck. The band was much better and I made a point of telling the acoustic guitar player that. He said that they really knuckled down at the morning run through before service and fixed a few things.
The most obvious to me issue was the guitar player they had playing bass has not figured out that you need to mute the other strings while playing a note. So you would get a C note along with either a D tone or an E tone over it. To me it was ghastly but since it was buried in the mix I don't think it was noticed that much.

 

[BassDad1964]

But I do really believe it to be true. Not sure why so many argue it.

I think we bass players argue it because guitar players get more chicks. We are forced to concede that fact, we ain't conceding nothin' else!

 

[Joe Nerve]

I think we bass players argue it because guitar players get more chicks. We are forced to concede that fact, we ain't conceding nothin' else!

I found with that argument that some people here take some things waaay too seriously. IMO.

I sometimes think people just don't get me . I'm getting more and more OK with that.

 

[BassDad1964]

I found with that argument that some people here take some things waaay too seriously. IMO.

I sometimes think people just don't get me . I'm getting more and more OK with that.

It's becoming more and more like Facebook in here. I thought your point was valid and I even put in my 2 cents but there is this temptation for some folks to look for conflict when gosh there really is no need for it.

You be you. I got respect.

 

[NZBassman]

well my first instrument of choice was the drums.... however my parents didn't share the same enthusiasm for the drums as I did....
But seeing as I was already learning the cello and could read music I decided to teach myself to play the bass.
The only bass they had a school was RH (I'm a leftie) so I just learnt RH and bought my first bass at 17... and the rest they say is history.
I can play a few chords on the guitar though

I still dream about playing the drums one day and have told Mrs Bassman that if we win the lottery I will buy a big house in the country and buy a drum kit similar to the one Alex Van Halen uses on the video for 'Jump'!