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Ibanez Portamento Club

#2,221
BQFS said:
Hi -

Please note that I have not yet gone through the preceding pages of this long thread.

I just received a SRF706. I really like the sound of the AeroSilk piezo system and really think the MK-1s leave a lot to be desired. I have already contacted Bart to get a quote on replacements.

I prefer a preamp to passive controls and am contemplating installing a Darkglass Tone Capsule to handle the mag pickups. Has anyone else installed a preamp in theirs? How did they go about blending the mag and piezo signals?

I can't find any information on AeroSilk. Is that just a trade name associated with Ibanez, or is this an actual stand-alone company? Any info would be appreciated.

In the past (two other bass upgrades), I have used a combination of the Tone Capsule along with the excellent GraphTech Ghost saddles in a Hipshot A-style bridge and used the GraphTech Acousti-Phonic preamp to handle the piezo and mix the mag and piezo signals with excellent results.

I apologize if this has already been covered elsewhere in the thread. If it has, if someone could point me to the location, I would be very appreciative.
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I am pretty sure that Aerosilk is an Ibanez exclusive system.

I have an SRF706 and really like the Piezos. I am building another fretless and ordered a GraphTech bridge/saddles and their pre. I am going to hook it up in conjunction with an Audere pre. The output from the Audere will feed into the GraphTech preamp. The GraphTech pre has built in accomodation for this type setup with a power out for the external pre that becomes hot when the Graphtech comes on... by inserting the cable into the jack.

From looking at the wiring diagram for the pre-amp for the Portamentos, it looks like the built in pre-amp may be integrated for both systems and the tone controls. Maybe the external piezo board is just a summing board like the Acousti-Phonic summing board. Not much help here... sorry.
Portamento-Wiring.gif


I am curious how you like the sound of the Aerosilk vs. the GraphTech piezo? I like that the Aero-Silk piezo system has individual string volume controls which the Graph-tech Acousti-Phonic does not have.

BTW, here is how I am hooking up my Audere with Graphtech. This drawing is a bird's eye overview, not a wiring diagram. (The small summing board is not in this diagram.)


Pickup_and_wiring.jpg
 
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#2,222
dalo said:
I did it myself but don't remember all the details anymore.

I removed the main preamp, and used the existing piezo preamp. I tested the wires for 9v, output, and ground but I don't remember the colors. Everything else was replaced. The piezo output went into the the John East MPM along with the magnetic pickups. The MPM came with a great wiring diagram that I followed and the MPM output went into the EMG mid control which went to the output jack.
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Glad to know you got yours going, but I think I have come up with an alternative solution, and perhaps a bit less expensive too.

I studied the wiring diagram and I think the process is fairly straightforward. I can leave the AeroSilk system completely unmodified.

I will start by removing all three plugs from the left side of the Main PCB. Then I can remove all four passive controls. Once I install the onboard preamp, the output of that preamp will go to the bottom two-wire plug on the left side of the Main PCB. That will allow the AeroSilk system to function as it previously did, to mix the mag and piezo outputs.

The only decision is what preamp to use for the mag pickups. If I use the Audere, they will provide any control configuration I want, including an active balance control, so I am leaning that way at the moment. Another option is to use a Darkglass Tone Capsule, my current favorite onboard pre. The problem there is that it will require me to rewire two of the tone controls (stacking them to avoid drilling another hole) and then I will use a master volume control and an EMG Active Balance Control. My guess is that will cost more than the Audere.

The final option is a Bartolini preamp. I am waiting to hear what preamp they recommend and how much it will cost. Stay tuned....
 
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#2,223
kirkdickinson said:
I am pretty sure that Aerosilk is an Ibanez exclusive system.

I have an SRF706 and really like the Piezos. I am building another fretless and ordered a GraphTech bridge/saddles and their pre. I am going to hook it up in conjunction with an Audere pre. The output from the Audere will feed into the GraphTech preamp. The GraphTech pre has built in accomodation for this type setup with a power out for the external pre that becomes hot when the Graphtech comes on... by inserting the cable into the jack.

From looking at the wiring diagram for the pre-amp for the Portamentos, it looks like the built in pre-amp may be integrated for both systems and the tone controls. Maybe the external piezo board is just a summing board like the Acousti-Phonic summing board. Not much help here... sorry.
View attachment 7045814

I am curious how you like the sound of the Aerosilk vs. the GraphTech piezo? I like that the Aero-Silk piezo system has individual string volume controls which the Graph-tech Acousti-Phonic does not have.

BTW, here is how I am hooking up my Audere with Graphtech. This drawing is a bird's eye overview, not a wiring diagram. (The small summing board is not in this diagram.)


View attachment 7045815
Click to expand...
Years ago I did something highly similar, but with this bass, I am leaning towards using an Audere but leaving in the AeroSilk system. GraphTech stuff is great, but VERY expensive. I certainly think the AeroSilk piezo system sounds great on this particular bass. I would not change it to the GraphTech even if you paid me to do it. I loved the GraphTech stuff on the basses I used it for, but I was changing out a defective system (Fishman), not upgrading a new bass.

I have really enjoyed workng with David in the past, and I'm not saying that just because we both live in Oregon. lol. He makes great products and stands behind them.

At the moment, I have an Audere preamp installed in my Dean 6. I pulled it out of a Samick that I sold, so it cost me almost nothing, as I replaced it with an inexpensive Artec before selling the Samick. It made the Dean sound out of this world. This was my third experience with Audere. Great stuff, very well supported, not any more expensive than other great onboard preamps.

In another post, I explain how you do not need to remove or modify the AeroSilk system to use a preamp for the mag. pickups.

With electronics (I'm a retired tech) there are usually many ways to accomplish the same thing. The way I did it was the conventional way. I used the jack to turn the batteries (18V) on and off, bypassing the switching on the A-P preamp. There is no advantage or disadvantage to doing it either way.

Before using the GraphTech system, my only experience was with piezo systems that had trimmers for each piezo pickup. I queried GraphTech about this, and their reply was that their manufacturing process was so precise, that the output of each piezo is the same as any other, so individual adjustments were not needed. After installation, I found their explanation to be true. Now, I look askance at other systems like the AeroSilk which use piezos that clearly are not made to extremely tight manufacturing standards, as mine certainly needed adjustment right out of the box.

Overall, I am less concerned about how it works, electronically, compared with how it sounds. As my bass is set up now, I have the mag pickups (which I need to replace) turned off. The piezo system produces excellent tone. I would not say it is better or worse than the GraphTech. It falls under the heading of, "if it's not broke, don't fix it."

The one HUGE advantage of GraphTech is that their system is available for a wide range of basses as an upgrade product. After much research, I have to conclude that the AeroSilk is only available on Ibanez basses, and not available as an add-on product at all.

There are certainly other 3rd party piezo systems, but I did a LOT of research before upgrading the first bass I did that had a defective piezo preamp. I saw nothing of excellent value beyond GraphTech. Their tech support is excellent, as are their products. I have experience with Fishman and was not impressed, and I had a bass that used LR Baggs and those proved so unreliable I was forced to sell the bass.
 
#2,228
pb9717 said:
Seller was a good guy. Glad I was able to snag it. Haven't stopped playing it. Seriously considering throwing my standard Elixir rounds on it. Anybody find it an improvement over the flats? did it mar the board?
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I don't like flats. The only ones that come close that I have found are the Cobalt flats by EB. Mine is strung with DR Black Beauties. Wearing on the board has never been an issue. If the board is hard wood, it takes a LONG time and a lot of hard digging to show any wear and that is usually fixable by sanding. Unless you don't like high frequencies and harmonics, use flats. Otherwise, lots of better choices.
 
#2,229
I have an SRSC805. That had my preferred elixir strings on it. I swapped those onto the SRF705. And put the flats on the SRSC. Feels like an improvement for both. The single cut is bright bass guitar. The flats seem to provide a more middle ground tone for that bass. The round wounds sound fantastic on the fretless.
 
#2,230
pb9717 said:
I have an SRSC805. That had my preferred elixir strings on it. I swapped those onto the SRF705. And put the flats on the SRSC. Feels like an improvement for both. The single cut is bright bass guitar. The flats seem to provide a more middle ground tone for that bass. The round wounds sound fantastic on the fretless.
Click to expand...
Never had much luck with Elixers, but I can't argue with your take on rounds used on fretless basses. I think people worry way too much about fingerboard longevity instead of going for the optimum tone. By design, flats have limited frequency response whereas rounds do not. You pays your nickel and you takes your choice...
 
#2,231
I just got my SRF705. But it came with a black back instead of the woodgrain. Does anyone know anything about the black backs? I didn't know they came that way and the store only had stock pics of the wood stain backs.

Edit: I heard back from Ibanez and they said it's just variations in the stain application. Interesting, that means mine is so thick it looks like black paint.
 
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#2,232
Almy said:
I just got my SRF705. But it came with a black back instead of the woodgrain. Does anyone know anything about the black backs? I didn't know they came that way and the store only had stock pics of the wood stain backs.

Edit: I heard back from Ibanez and they said it's just variations in the stain application. Interesting, that means mine is so thick it looks like black paint.
Click to expand...

Mine also came with a black back too. My guess is that it seems to depend on when the bass was made, at some point they transitioned to a darker finish on the back.
 
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#2,234
Almy said:
I just got my SRF705. But it came with a black back instead of the woodgrain. Does anyone know anything about the black backs? I didn't know they came that way and the store only had stock pics of the wood stain backs.

Edit: I heard back from Ibanez and they said it's just variations in the stain application. Interesting, that means mine is so thick it looks like black paint.
Click to expand...
That makes it more valuable?
But how does it play, and sound, and do you like it?
 
#2,235
I appreciate the feedback. I was really digging the wood stain, so getting it this dark was a surprise. But it came from several states away so I'll just keep it.

Back of Bass.jpg


But it plays well. And it plays easily. I'm surprised by how light it is and how low, in a good way, the action is. I was a horn play first, and a guitar player for the last 30 years. But this is my first time making a serious effort at bass.
 
#2,236
Almy said:
I appreciate the feedback. I was really digging the wood stain, so getting it this dark was a surprise. But it came from several states away so I'll just keep it.

View attachment 7073815

But it plays well. And it plays easily. I'm surprised by how light it is and how low, in a good way, the action is. I was a horn play first, and a guitar player for the last 30 years. But this is my first time making a serious effort at bass.
Click to expand...
I had no prior experience with Ibanez, but I wanted a 6 string fretless and my back can't handle anything much above 10 pounds. I had heard that these were lighter than average and had very playable necks, and this bass has certainly lived up to that part.

What I did not care for was the passive mag. circuits nor the the tone of the licensed pickups. So I removed the passive circuitry and installed an excellent Audere Classic preamp. I got the setup for four holes - Stacked volume/balance, Stacked High-mid/low-mid control, and separate bass and treble. I wired the output of the preamp to where the wire from the passive volumes used to go and that all worked like a champ. I also replaced the pickups with a pair of Bartolini MK6CBC soapbars and the bass now sounds tremendous.

I hadn't any prior experience with Bartolini either, but these pickups put out a nice tone, and their customer service was the best.

My other 6 string is a Dean, the lightest 6 I could find. I've upgraded it so much that literally the only thing that remains of the original bass is the body. I replaced those hard to adjust mono bridges with an Allparts bridge, replaced the crummy sealed tuners with some lighter weight Guykers (Ultralight knockoffs), and installed a custom version of the Audere Classic preamp optimized to work with the Lace Aluma Stealth pickups I installed. Sounds and plays fabulously too.

The only thing left to do on the Ibanez is to replace the flats. I've never cared much for flats, even on fretless. To me, the broader range of tone I can get from rounds makes more of a difference to me than worrying about fingerboard damage. Not sure what I want to try.

Anyone put rounds on theirs? If so, which ones and how happy are you with them?
 
#2,237
BQFS said:
Anyone put rounds on theirs? If so, which ones and how happy are you with them?
Click to expand...

I have rounds on mine. Kalium strings, due to the nature of my current band I have it tuned F#-G.

I think it depends on how even your fingerboard is and setup. I ran into some issues using rounds, I think because the Panga Panga fingerboard is just too porous. On my fingerboard there is a large natural seam that runs through the grain on mine that I found was causing enough unevenness to create some bad buzz. It drove me crazy for a while. I've since done a good coating of CA glue on my fingerboard until it was a smooth glass finish, and it's helped a lot. I do wish that Ibanez had went with a harder wood than panga panga, it just doesn't seem like a great choice for a fretless. Though I'm sure if they went with something like ebony they would jack up the price significantly.

I think there were just some QC issues with my bass in general though, another one that didn't become apparent until recently is an issue with the truss rod. I think the channel for the truss rod might be too tight, because when I need to adjust it I was getting a lot of resistance even when loosening it. The nut is a bit stripped now, so that's a whole other issue I'm trying to figure out how to deal with. I know how to handle a truss rod, I always used the correct size wrench, the thing was just so stiff to adjust that it stripped the nut.

But regardless of that ramble. I think rounds are worth trying. Just try your preferred set and see how it plays.
 
#2,238
When I had the strings loose during the pickup change, I had a good look at the board and all seems well. To add to my lack of experience with Ibanez, I don't have any experience with panga panga either. The Wood Database has this to say:

"Workability: Can be difficult to work with hand and power tools. Blunts tool edges. Can sand unevenly due to differences in density between light and dark areas. Can easily get splinters when handling this wood, which tend to go septic (see safety information below).

Allergies/Toxicity: Although severe reactions are quite uncommon, breathing Wenge wood dust (closely related to Panga Panga) has been reported to cause central nervous system effects, irritation of the skin and eyes, and is a sensitizer. Also, Wenge splinters tend to take longer to heal and are more likely to go septic (get infected) than splinters from other woods. See the articles Wood Allergies and Toxicity and Wood Dust Safety for more information.

Panga Panga is very similar in working properties and appearance to Wenge, and it's not uncommon for the two species to be used and mixed interchangeably."

If panga panga is known to dull the tools used to work it, I am way less concerned about wear from rounds than I was. It might not be quite as hard as ebony, but it's close enough for me.

So, I guess the big takeaway is don't get a sliver in your hands when you play or sepsis might set in. Oh boy, Death by Fingerboard. lol

Hmm. Seems like coating the board with something or other might be the thing to do. I might give mine a treatment with some fine sanding followed by treatment with linseed oil.

Anyone know what the board radius might be?

It's amazing how many strings are out there. Never heard of Kalium. My favorite rounds are LaBella Super Steps. Great clarity, superb harmonics, and the best sustain of any string I've tried. LaBella knows their stuff. I also like DR Black Beauties. No huge fan of flats, the only exception for me is the EB-Cobalt flats.

Pa
 
#2,240
Shanannigan said:
I have rounds on mine. Kalium strings, due to the nature of my current band I have it tuned F#-G.

I think it depends on how even your fingerboard is and setup. I ran into some issues using rounds, I think because the Panga Panga fingerboard is just too porous. On my fingerboard there is a large natural seam that runs through the grain on mine that I found was causing enough unevenness to create some bad buzz. It drove me crazy for a while. I've since done a good coating of CA glue on my fingerboard until it was a smooth glass finish, and it's helped a lot. I do wish that Ibanez had went with a harder wood than panga panga, it just doesn't seem like a great choice for a fretless. Though I'm sure if they went with something like ebony they would jack up the price significantly.

I think there were just some QC issues with my bass in general though, another one that didn't become apparent until recently is an issue with the truss rod. I think the channel for the truss rod might be too tight, because when I need to adjust it I was getting a lot of resistance even when loosening it. The nut is a bit stripped now, so that's a whole other issue I'm trying to figure out how to deal with. I know how to handle a truss rod, I always used the correct size wrench, the thing was just so stiff to adjust that it stripped the nut.

But regardless of that ramble. I think rounds are worth trying. Just try your preferred set and see how it plays.
Click to expand...
It bothers me that Ibanez basically refuses to use anything besides panga panga for most of their basses. No problem for fretted ones but fretless definetly warrants some harder material. They use plenty of ebony on their guitars; even those at the same price as the portamento. Ebonol or richlite would also be great, but they are only used on one model respectively. There is a heck of a lot of fretboard wood on the portamento so that would drive up the cost. I do hope they use that ebonol stuff on more basses. I have yet to see the Steve Digiorgio signature in the wild.
 

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