Ibanez Promethean Startup Problem: No More Parts

[S-Bigbottom]

Nah... My amps been working for 46 years now. The lifetime warranty is holding up.
My sympathy goes out to all . that deal with dead new amps.

It was comforting to know that until the year 2000 there were no such thing as Amp Repair Shops.
Maybe the new trend for jobs this year is Amp Repair Man.
Since all the TV repair shops have closed, these can open in their place.

We still need to address the issue of all these old amps that line the closets, halls and streets that refuse to die.
There are now 267 music shops in town with 6 more slated to open next week to sell all these amps because they are still working so good.

They better open more shops quick, I seen a large group of 80's amps run out a Walmart and claimed it as their own recently. There were thousands of them the next week I walked by, all happily working so we can not be too mad at them.

It was loud!

 

[BogeyBass]

I'm excited for everyone.
Working amps are great!!

 

[BassmanPaul]

I've never had a single problem with my class D power amps and I don't expect to.

 

[tekhedd]

Obvious troll is obvious.

Everything else aside, these failures have nothing to do with Class D operation. It's a failed reflow process obvs. Duh.

 

[jeff7bass]

Obvious troll is obvious.

Everything else aside, these failures have nothing to do with Class D operation. It's a failed reflow process obvs. Duh.

Just because some people have not had problems with class D heads doesn't mean problems aren't real. Carvin and Ampeg problems were notorious and I've had them both. I've personally witnessed GK (MB500) and Bergantino (Forte) fail in person also. On the other hand it seems like my old GK's, Peavey, and Carvin SS heads are solid as rocks, and getting them fixed doesn't seem impossible.

 

[BassmanPaul]

Obvious troll is obvious.

Everything else aside, these failures have nothing to do with Class D operation. It's a failed reflow process obvs. Duh.

Who was this directed at?

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Just because some people have not had problems with class D heads doesn't mean problems aren't real. Carvin and Ampeg problems were notorious and I've had them both. I've personally witnessed GK (MB500) and Bergantino (Forte) fail in person also. On the other hand it seems like my old GK's, Peavey, and Carvin SS heads are solid as rocks, and getting them fixed doesn't seem impossible.

Have had and seen many old GK's and Hartke's go out and do not get me started on my Eden WT800 and WT550 disasters that many others had. This is now mostly forgotten because there are still some out there now that survived, now people think, "It is old so them Eden's last forever", no, some just survived. There is a mass grave somewhere that has been forgotten. All non class D

Again, there were amp repair shops that had a steady flow of business long before class D.
Randall Smith was repairing amps before he started modifying them, then later becoming Mesa Engineering.
Randall's Story | MESA/Boogie®

 

[jeff7bass]

Have had and seen many old GK's and Hartke's go out and do not get me started on my Eden WT800 and WT550 disasters that many others had. This is now mostly forgotten because there are still some out there now that survived, now people think, "It is old so them Eden's last forever", no, some just survived. There is a mass grave somewhere that has been forgotten. All non class D

Again, there were amp repair shops that had a steady flow of business long before class D.
Randall Smith was repairing amps before he started modifying them, then later becoming Mesa Engineering.
Randall's Story | MESA/Boogie®

All I can go by is my personal experience. I get that class D is huge now so many people are involved in building them and selling them. Still, I've read too many posts about people spending a lot of money to fix class D amps that just aged past warranty. It happened to me and to fix it cost the same as a new one (shipped).
It's like new cars versus old cars. Old cars, easy to get the part and fix it. Now fixing a starter is 2 hours and 450 bucks. Timing belt breaks you need new valves and possibly new cylinders (also happened to me).
I think there was a rush to sell class D amps early on and real world problems didn't quite jive with lab testing. Lots of them shutdown, clipped too easily, blew up. Again like auto manufacturers that shrink the engine size (to save fuel), but then slaps a turbo on them that shoves more fuel into the cylinders than they can burn (Honda's 1.5T). Bottom line I didn't used to worry about my old amps, but with any class D head I will always keep a backup in the car.

 

[agedhorse]

It costs LESS to fix both the Genz Benz and Mesa class D amps. I don't know where you are getting that it costs more to fix them.

Repairing an amp like a GBE-1200 or Big Block or Bass 400+ will almost always be much more expensive IME.

 

[jeff7bass]

It costs LESS to fix both the Genz Benz and Mesa class D amps. I don't know where you are getting that it costs more to fix them.

Repairing an amp like a GBE-1200 or Big Block or Bass 400+ will almost always be much more expensive IME.

Well then maybe GB and Mesa did things differently than some of the others.

 

[agedhorse]

Well then maybe GB and Mesa did things differently than some of the others.

Based on what I know, the same thing can be said about many Fender and GK models too.

 

[jeff7bass]

Based on what I know, the same thing can be said about many Fender and GK models too.

I read online reviews for fun and have a huge stack of bass magazines. I admit that Mesa and GB seem to have done a better job in the development of class D amps, based on everything I've seen. I'm pissed that Carvin jumped the gun because their amps just before they went class D were solid. It's lowered the resale value of my Carvin BX1200 and other people's B1500, both great amps, but they don't make bass amps anymore. Sucks.

 

[agedhorse]

Just like class AB amps, different manufacturers have different successes and failures.

Don't lump all class D amps into the same "unreliable" category because that would be inaccurate, no different than class AB amps.

 

[Element Zero]

Another class D , smps board for the landfill.
Just pick up another one and start the clock. Tick tick tick

 

[BogeyBass]

Obvious troll is obvious.

Everything else aside, these failures have nothing to do with Class D operation. It's a failed reflow process obvs. Duh.

Lol subjective.

Most likely power supply issue.
But this is typical IRS2092 class D modulator chip.
Numerous problems arise from this chip
And mostly design decisions made.
But it's notorious for false protection triggers. Especially if the chip itself is provided power from switching supplies.
Quick check of the schematic would tell how they set numerous fault protection options. And if the correct filters were used with a switcher.
Very simple amplifier on paper. Real life... different story. Some basic design decisions can cause alot of unseen issues. And many have made same mistakes. Or just get haunted by the thing regardless how good you are...
Garbage
But yes a flawless design probably still find reflow problems or notorious mysterious ribbon cables or countless other light turd amp issues.

 

[staccatogrowl]

Another class D , smps board for the landfill. Just pick up another one and start the clock. Tick tick tick

The irony of the that statement is that landfills already contain more than half-a-century of tube and other transistor amps.

Disposable amps sure didn't begin with class-D. And, class-D amps are the minority, with tube and transistor amps making the majority of "landfill treasure."

 

[S-Bigbottom]

Lol subjective.

So you were not around or have forgotten the Eden turds of the early to mid 2000's?

They all had Toroidal transformers, were made in the USA and many were sent to repair multiple times then trashed.
I trashed a WT800 and a WT550, that is two personally, after dealing with their costumer service and failed repairs.

And to blast another stereotype, Eden got much more reliable when production moved to China.
Even their sales reps as well as players will say when someone mentions they will not buy them now because they are made in China would come back with, "They are much more reliable since being made in China."

 

[Tamas Venczel]

Just a little follow-up: *Ibanez USA* was kind enough to provide the schematic. Big thumbs up! Out of respect will not publish ... desperate souls could send me a pm.

Hello Richie!

I have a Promethean P5110 combo. The guitar (Input) input is muted, only occasionally makes a sound. Aux works. There is a rupture, but where? Do you have a circuit diagram of the preamp panel? Debugging would be faster. If so, will you send me a PM or email?
Thanks!
Sorry for the incorrect English, I translated with Google Translate.
Welcome from Tamas, Hungary

 

[Peter Van Kuyk]

Just a little follow-up: *Ibanez USA* was kind enough to provide the schematic. Big thumbs up! Out of respect will not publish ... desperate souls could send me a pm.

Hi there, could you please send me a copy of the P5110 schematic to [email protected]

 

[jazzjazz]

Just a little follow-up: *Ibanez USA* was kind enough to provide the schematic. Big thumbs up! Out of respect will not publish ... desperate souls could send me a pm.

Just a little follow-up: *Ibanez USA* was kind enough to provide the schematic. Big thumbs up! Out of respect will not publish ... desperate souls could send me a pm.