So you wouldn't play an instrument on stage that you like and enjoy and admire, because of vanity & fear of how you may be perceived by whomever you imgine may be watching you?
Narcissistic, much?
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Ibanez stigma... is it just me?
- Thread starter rojo412
- Start date
So you wouldn't play an instrument on stage that you like and enjoy and admire, because of vanity & fear of how you may be perceived by whomever you imgine may be watching you?
Narcissistic, much?
Not "fear," but simple understanding of how this works.
But yes, absolutely.
No, professional.
Presentation is everything.
Well, almost.
I felt the same way about the Ibanez brand in the 90s but it had more to do with their guitars.
I'm a Tele guy and those super pointy, hair metal/shredder guitars of theirs just turned me off soooooo much. So of course when I first got into bass in the early 90s I got a classic Fender.
Only played the bass for about 2 years and only just got back into it a little over a year ago and after doing some research for an affordable but nice playing/looking bass, it was a contest between a Yamaha BB414, Squire Vintage Modified or Classic Vibe Jazz, a Peavey (forget which) and an Ibanez. Guess which I chose?
Yep, I went with the Ibanez SR300 which a few weeks later I took back to the store to upgrade to a practically new SR400QM which a fellow TBer was selling for less than I paid for the SR300!
It was light with very comfy contours, playability was good, liked the overall look and the tone was pretty versatile. What more could you ask for under $450 (the current price at most stores but I got this baby for much less than that!). Now I just have serious GAS for one of the Prestige models!
I'm a Tele guy and those super pointy, hair metal/shredder guitars of theirs just turned me off soooooo much. So of course when I first got into bass in the early 90s I got a classic Fender.
Only played the bass for about 2 years and only just got back into it a little over a year ago and after doing some research for an affordable but nice playing/looking bass, it was a contest between a Yamaha BB414, Squire Vintage Modified or Classic Vibe Jazz, a Peavey (forget which) and an Ibanez. Guess which I chose?
Yep, I went with the Ibanez SR300 which a few weeks later I took back to the store to upgrade to a practically new SR400QM which a fellow TBer was selling for less than I paid for the SR300!
It was light with very comfy contours, playability was good, liked the overall look and the tone was pretty versatile. What more could you ask for under $450 (the current price at most stores but I got this baby for much less than that!). Now I just have serious GAS for one of the Prestige models!
I guess it may depend on genre.
But look, IIRC, we are close to the same age. Way beyond what any company would look for to give an endorsement deal. I don't do this for a living, just for my own pleasure, so I'm having trouble grasping someone our age being so controlled by what others think, that one may actually pass over a better bass for a certain job, to look more"professional".
I DO get not just giving free advertisements to a brand and putting electrical tape over the headstock.
To me, you've always seemed like the kind of guy that would play what sounded right and dare anyone to tell you what bass to play.
I really have never run across anyone who said,"that guy with the brand X bass is more professional looking than the guy with brand Y". But, I guess you have or you probably wouldn't feel that way.
Why? Do dumb people have a right to thought-conformity and consensus just because in their insecurity they crave it?
See tagline. Smart people like different views to consider, even if they don't think they agree with them up front. Dumb people are threatened and enraged by different views, and that's one major reason why they stay dumb.
Think about it.
Not usually, no. But even when he is, he can't allow bad presentation to fight him.
Well, that's true, but as I mentioned to an enraged bubba elsewhere last night, consider that my "opinions" about what worked and didn't in music once meant millions of dollars to the broadcast and recording industries.
How much have your musical "opinions" mattered to anyone's bottom line?
The main moderator here told me about a year back that I should give more advice as it would be helpful to people here. He's right, they certainly need it, but they don't want it. They don't want education, they want reassurance.
I'm absolutely positive that's true -- but it doesn't make them right, does it?
This isn't personal. I'm not here to hurt anyone's feelings, because in this business, feelings don't matter -- what matters are being a pro, being serious and getting with the program.
In the unlikely event you ever get a major signing, you'll probably accrue an inflated chunk of recoupable debt to your act when your label hires an artist development coach to tell you pretty much the same stuff I do here and all the bubbas hate so much.
What I'm telling you usually isn't my "opinion," but rather what I've observed firsthand with artist development incidental to my past work (I'm retired). Not only is it common sense, it's pretty much The Rules.
I'd say maybe 5% of the people on TalkBass would agree with me. What I say discomfits the rest, and for good reason.
Whenever there are these "show your act" photo/video threads, you just don't know whether to laugh or cry at 90% of them. They're just sad. People just haven't a clue how to present themselves as serious, professional performers. They just look like the first five guys someone kidnapped coming out of Home Depot on a Saturday afternoon, stuffed them in a big box full of random gear from a pawnshop, shook it hard and dumped the resulting mess out on a stage somewhere.
Dude...you have eyes, you know I'm not lying. It's just pathetic.
It's not "about the music." It's never been "about the music." That's a myth, something you're coached to say in interviews, like ball players "giving 110%." You're not supposed to talk about what misery it was to learn proper stage posture or having to lose forty pounds so you didn't look like a pig on camera.
It's only "about the music" to some loser who thinks that if he can just play more nit notes on his fugly green bass with too many strings, the world will overlook the fact that he's a lazy, unattractive, insecure slob who can't get out of the bedroom and into a viable, serious act, and he'll by some feat of pure magic be taken seriously by someone besides his dog.
Wait! You don't care if you ever go pro or anyone takes you seriously?
Great, and God bless you for accepting your fate gracefully -- but don't give me a bunch of crap when I'm trying to help people who do care.
When young acts used to ask me for quick soundbite advice, one of the things I always told them was:
Never let anything second-rate be associated with your act.
That means your material, graphics, webpage, stage presentation, management. legal representation, band members, tech crew, your freaking haircut...everything and anything...and certainly your gear.
Of course, you can't have first-rate professional everything, but you work to present the best you have, and it's a constant struggle to keep bettering things and developing coherent branding for you and your act.
If you have the option to use serious pro standard gear, do it.
Cool, don't hurt yourself.
When I initially posted my explanation of what Ibanez was to me, and why I didn't ever desire one, it was just to say that nothing they made ever jumped out at me enough to make a purchase.
But thanks to the people who were champions of the brand, I was convinced to buy one and try it out.
I picked up the 85 Roadstar II and not only was I impressed, I'm still enjoying the bass. That is quite a feat, because I have been a flipper for years now, not keeping anything for over a month. I even upgraded it a bit and plan on using it until I get desperate for more cash. But honestly, I like the bass a lot and it prompted me to continue searching for older Ibanezes. Some day, I'll have a Musician.
Furthermore, I took the chance on another, newer Ibanez. The price was right and it looked decent, so I picked it up:
2003 SR490. Wenge neck, mahogany body, active EQ, etc... Korean, not Japanese, mind you. I wanted to have a fairer comparison, you know?
In all honesty... I like this bass as well. It has a great feel, a decent tone, is easy to play and is LIGHT (7.8 lbs!). The wood is great for the price, the tone is versatile, and if I had to play this for a gig, I wouldn't hesitate.
It isn't quite as beefy as the Roadstar and suffers a bit from that. The neck doesn't stay put like that chunky, funky '85. But it's suffering the same as any 4 string, skinny necked bass would.
It's as finicky as the MIM Jazz, the Squier Jazz, and the Musicman Sterling I've played with recently.
The preamp, despite it's relatively basic nature, is capable of shaping tone in a way that is very usable in all kinds of situations. And like anything else, if you don't like it, you can change it. It has a PJ setup and 5 holes to play with. The possibilities for upgrade are almost endless.
So while they may not be the basses of my dreams, I'd like to say that my stigma has been lifted.
Ibanez basses, to me, are like just about any other bass... They have good ones, they have bad ones. You will love one and hate another, even if it's the same exact model.
And while the new image of Ibanez tends to lean towards the type of music you or I may or may not like, the fact of the matter is, it's an instrument and the true sound comes from who plays it, not who made it, necessarily.
But thanks to the people who were champions of the brand, I was convinced to buy one and try it out.
I picked up the 85 Roadstar II and not only was I impressed, I'm still enjoying the bass. That is quite a feat, because I have been a flipper for years now, not keeping anything for over a month. I even upgraded it a bit and plan on using it until I get desperate for more cash. But honestly, I like the bass a lot and it prompted me to continue searching for older Ibanezes. Some day, I'll have a Musician.
Furthermore, I took the chance on another, newer Ibanez. The price was right and it looked decent, so I picked it up:
2003 SR490. Wenge neck, mahogany body, active EQ, etc... Korean, not Japanese, mind you. I wanted to have a fairer comparison, you know?
In all honesty... I like this bass as well. It has a great feel, a decent tone, is easy to play and is LIGHT (7.8 lbs!). The wood is great for the price, the tone is versatile, and if I had to play this for a gig, I wouldn't hesitate.
It isn't quite as beefy as the Roadstar and suffers a bit from that. The neck doesn't stay put like that chunky, funky '85. But it's suffering the same as any 4 string, skinny necked bass would.
It's as finicky as the MIM Jazz, the Squier Jazz, and the Musicman Sterling I've played with recently.
The preamp, despite it's relatively basic nature, is capable of shaping tone in a way that is very usable in all kinds of situations. And like anything else, if you don't like it, you can change it. It has a PJ setup and 5 holes to play with. The possibilities for upgrade are almost endless.
So while they may not be the basses of my dreams, I'd like to say that my stigma has been lifted.
Ibanez basses, to me, are like just about any other bass... They have good ones, they have bad ones. You will love one and hate another, even if it's the same exact model.
And while the new image of Ibanez tends to lean towards the type of music you or I may or may not like, the fact of the matter is, it's an instrument and the true sound comes from who plays it, not who made it, necessarily.
I had an old Blazer Bass a few years ago that was completely original and was the best sounding bass ive ever owned, at the time i had a MIJ Fender Precision,a MIM Fender Precision and a couple of OLP basses and that blazer blew the legs off everyone of em, the Fenders sounds poor compared to it.
I only wish i could afford to go and buy another one,maybe one day i will own another one
I only wish i could afford to go and buy another one,maybe one day i will own another one
I don't know of a stigma but I know they don't do anything for me. I've owned 2 now (Sr300 and SR755) both just fell flat for me. Not bad but not great either. Don't know what it is.
I know I'm late to the 9 page party but I like my BTB. Guys I play with like it too. There may be those that look down their nose at me for it but, to be honest, I'm fine with it... They can do whatever they want to makes themselves feel better.
Congratulations!
Put a USATK, and a Japanese or Korean built ATK on your future shopping list.
My buddy has an ATK with the Koa top that needs love. I actually bought that for him YEARS ago. It was a good bass, but he neglects it. Plus, the neck was kind of wonky.
The long and the short of it...
I started on Ibanez's. They were decent for the price ( the best deal at the time) easy to play, and looked cool without being too flashy.
After going through a few of them -- some better than others, I dismissed them as being cheesy and went on to other things.
Recently I played a SR model with Bartolini's. It all came back to me. It was like being reunited with an old friend. That bass makes you play a certain way and it's kinda cool.
Sure, it has a shallow quality about it, but the Barts give it a richer sound and that baby is one FAST bass.
I bought it.
I started on Ibanez's. They were decent for the price ( the best deal at the time) easy to play, and looked cool without being too flashy.
After going through a few of them -- some better than others, I dismissed them as being cheesy and went on to other things.
Recently I played a SR model with Bartolini's. It all came back to me. It was like being reunited with an old friend. That bass makes you play a certain way and it's kinda cool.
Sure, it has a shallow quality about it, but the Barts give it a richer sound and that baby is one FAST bass.
I bought it.
No, it has one of those necks that just won't get straight correctly. Where it doesn't have a "Bow" to it, but more of an "Angle", so if you get it flat enough for low action, the first 2 frets are buzzing and if you let off just a touch, it has low action in the lower frets, but is kinda high in the upper register.
It's been a while since I've messed with it and I plan on stealing it tonight at practice, since he's leaving town for 10 days and it needs love.
More to come...
I use my natural finish / neckthrough Ibanez SR1006 prestige for jazz and fusion, IMHO this bass is a beautiful and versatile monster.
I constantly check and adjust all my basses - necks, string height, etc, and I can say with no reservations that my SR500 has never needed any neck, truss or string height adjustments in all the time I have owned it.
The neck is just as flat and without torsional twists as it can be and always has been. I straight-edge all my fingerboards weekly to keep ahead of any curves that might start - but it just ain't happening on MY Ibanez, trouble-wise, as some others are stating they have with that particular brand.
A few of my Fenders need a slight adjustment from time to time - and that's prolly not from seasonal changes - as I don't think seasons have any input of the neck's movements or basses perform-ability at all. I've never seen it.
I'll gleefully however put up with some small adjustment in my Fenders and Squiers, since I truly like the basses anyway.
Strings however, constantly change tuning, as they are thermally reflective and if no one string or pair of them are being bad and just doing their own thing, then it's all good IMO.
I totally dismiss people who say they never have to change the position of those twisty-thingies on the top of their bass.
Just putting the warm palm of your hands on the strings will cause them to float the tuning slightly.
C'mon - the necks are all sealed in plastic or urethane or nitro, and the passage of damp air in to and out of the neck is just voodoo. Besides, I don't believe wood respires and anyway I don't have any raw exposed wood either.
FYI: I live at 4000+ feet altitude and we have four seasons that change on a regular basis. We've just come from single digit humidity and temps over 90ºF 24/7, to now where it is almost raining, heavy low-lying cloud cover with humidity percentages over 80% and temps going from 65º daytime to near freezing at night.
I've got exposed wood on my house that goes all twisty and warps - but that's Douglas Fir or whatever China sends us - but remember that home construction wood is NOT instrument wood and can never be held to the same criteria. Neither can instrument wood be summarily dismissed as a living entity.
I rarely ever play my basses in the rain or snow or in the driving sleet. But of all the gear I own, I bet the Ibanez would suffer the least amount from environmental impact.
So far - all my basses are straight and playable. The worst I can expect is that the strings will go (at the VERY most) almost a 1/2 tone sharp when they get cold.
The neck is just as flat and without torsional twists as it can be and always has been. I straight-edge all my fingerboards weekly to keep ahead of any curves that might start - but it just ain't happening on MY Ibanez, trouble-wise, as some others are stating they have with that particular brand.
A few of my Fenders need a slight adjustment from time to time - and that's prolly not from seasonal changes - as I don't think seasons have any input of the neck's movements or basses perform-ability at all. I've never seen it.
I'll gleefully however put up with some small adjustment in my Fenders and Squiers, since I truly like the basses anyway.
Strings however, constantly change tuning, as they are thermally reflective and if no one string or pair of them are being bad and just doing their own thing, then it's all good IMO.
I totally dismiss people who say they never have to change the position of those twisty-thingies on the top of their bass.
Just putting the warm palm of your hands on the strings will cause them to float the tuning slightly.
C'mon - the necks are all sealed in plastic or urethane or nitro, and the passage of damp air in to and out of the neck is just voodoo. Besides, I don't believe wood respires and anyway I don't have any raw exposed wood either.
FYI: I live at 4000+ feet altitude and we have four seasons that change on a regular basis. We've just come from single digit humidity and temps over 90ºF 24/7, to now where it is almost raining, heavy low-lying cloud cover with humidity percentages over 80% and temps going from 65º daytime to near freezing at night.
I've got exposed wood on my house that goes all twisty and warps - but that's Douglas Fir or whatever China sends us - but remember that home construction wood is NOT instrument wood and can never be held to the same criteria. Neither can instrument wood be summarily dismissed as a living entity.
I rarely ever play my basses in the rain or snow or in the driving sleet. But of all the gear I own, I bet the Ibanez would suffer the least amount from environmental impact.
So far - all my basses are straight and playable. The worst I can expect is that the strings will go (at the VERY most) almost a 1/2 tone sharp when they get cold.
I'll put the SR & BTB Prestige models up against basses costing twice as much. I did that exact thing and bought Ibanez.
