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Identify Fretless or Not from old recording

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#21
Wood and Wire said:
I would bet my favourite underpants that this actually dates from the early 90's (possibly late 80's, local studio level production), and it's almost certainly a Music Man StingRay.
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And what exactly are the favorite underpants? Do they date from 1970? Well I would say that boxer briefs were not popularized until the great boxer/brief debate started by President Bill Clinton in the mid 1990s after the scandals pointed to his tendency to go commando...
It's a G-string isn't it?
I use a low B myself.
Drugs are bad, mkay?
 
#22
eastcoasteddie said:
Definitely fretless.
What I’m curious about is how you’ve arrived at exactly “circa 1970” from the lyrics. Is it not possible to have written the song in 1976 and then recorded the song in say, 1978, with 1970 San Francisco in mind?
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I said from " ...RESEARCH into the lyrics". I've spent months finding the time and place of THE STORY, but am now trying to get FACTUAL background on the music.

There are 3 timelines to this mystery to crack:
(1) the actual story (1962-1965. Historical fact)
(2) the songwriting about the story (seems contemporary to the story, ie written in present tense).
(3) the recording era of the song (my guess being mid-late 60s because of its West Coast folk-rock, semi-psychodelic style and sound). Many people keep stabbing at a Jefferson Airplane-type sound; a Carly Simon-type voice. It sounds typical not imitative of its genre. Who could this mystery singer and players be??? No band or singer-songwriter who might have later risen to prominence would ever just "lose" a song and its demo tape and never claim it by 2022. So the conclusion is that they remained obscure and then died. That's the needle in the haystack! I need a 70 year old musicologist or recordist of the time.

As a non-player, a non-American, aged 66 who partly remembers the West Coast music of the 60s, I came to this forum to seek even older West Coast rockers who could finger either: The voice, the band, the players, the instruments, trying to feel back through time to identify some chick who recorded this song and who has obviously died since, leaving nothing but a cassette tape with "Demo" scribbled on it which turned up in 1985 in LA in a box of old tapes.

Not looking for conjectures or suppositions about bass guitar models but solid recollections leading to performer identification. My original fretless/not fretless question was merely a tag to possibly narrow down the years for recording.

Thank you all for your inputs thus far.
 
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#23
SwamiB said:
I said from " ...RESEARCH into the lyrics". I've spent months finding the time and place of THE STORY, but am now trying to get FACTUAL background on the music.
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I didn’t mean to sound like a prick…If I did, I wholeheartedly apologize.
I was just generally curious as to how you got there, and with this explanation, I see that it was extremely diligent and thorough.

I was just merely suggesting maybe something less “overthought” than researching the lyrics word-for-word and such.
 
#24
All good Eddie. No insult received or intended. It's just that I'm tired of much unfounded opinionated shite from young-uns naming 80s, 90s players who weren't even born then!

If ... if ... it was indeed a fretless, then that narrows players down! Find me that bass player!
 
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#25
eastcoasteddie said:
I didn’t mean to sound like a prick…If I did, I wholeheartedly apologize.
I was just generally curious as to how you got there, and with this explanation, I see that it was extremely diligent and thorough.

I was just merely suggesting maybe something less “overthought” than researching the lyrics word-for-word and such.
Click to expand...

Oh and if you're seriously interested to know how I researched the story, checkout my 5 Part thesis here under the name The Dolphin.
 
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#27
SwamiB said:
All good Eddie. No insult received or intended. It's just that I'm tired of much unfounded opinionated poopiee from young-uns naming 80s, 90s players who weren't even born then!

If ... if ... it was indeed a fretless, then that narrows players down! Find me that bass player!
Click to expand...

But what's to stop some woman writing, and recording a song this afternoon, about hanging out at the Psychedelic Shop in Height-Ashbury in the summer of '66 - never having even been born then, let alone having ever been there?

What makes you believe it was recorded at the time of the events it describes?

Nothing about the specifics of the engineering, or any of the tones used say "1960's" to me, in fact it positively screams early 90's, from the splash cymbals, to the guitar tones, the bass, and to some degree the vocals too.

Regarding the bass : it really sounds like a StingRay (which didn't come to market until 1976) or possibly another active bass, such as a Wal, which would push it back into the 80's.

I'm pretty certain I'm hearing frets, particularly during hammer-ons in the lower register - but it's possible that the player is really beating the heck out of the strings on a fretless.


Another thing - and it's possible I'm mis-hearing the lyric, but one line seems to mention Microlights, which weren't invented until the late 70's.


Good luck.
 
#29
Thank you for your input.

Did you read my months of previous research into this song, commented below the YT video, by The Dolphin? It states I am not sure about the musical provence, and hence I have embarked up asking older musos for definite memories and knowledge of those times. This search has been stabbed at by people for 3 years now. 60s, 70s, 80, 90s. All have been proposed. Not one skerrick of matching sound has ever come forth. Who records a demo in the 60s, never reclaims it in the era of the internet, and never records again? A dead person over 70.

Research is trying to discover facts. Sometimes one must make guesstimates, suppositions to move closer to facts. I'm open to any evidence and unequivocal input to prove any hypothesis.

>>> Wood and Wire, post: 26138007, member: 311612"]But what's to stop some woman writing, and recording a song this afternoon, about hanging out at the Psychedelic Shop in Height-Ashbury in the summer of '66 - never having even been born then, let alone having ever been there?

>>> What makes you believe it was recorded at the time of the events it describes?

As above -- research, hunch, the sound, commonsense.

>>> Nothing about the specifics of the engineering, or any of the tones used say "1960's" to me, in fact it positively screams early 90's, from the splash cymbals, to the guitar tones, the bass, and to some degree the vocals too.

Wow. Do you not hear the 60s? Were you there in the 60s? Lol, perhaps you are self-projecting later tones that the 60s brought to music! Guitar tones??? Never heard Roger McGuinns 12 string Rickenbacker?

>>>Regarding the bass : it really sounds like a StingRay (which didn't come to market until 1976) or possibly another active bass, such as a Wal, which would push it back into the 80's.

Wow. You make song pretty definitive statements there, all based only on listening to a mono, 3rd generation YouTube upload, from a cassette tape discovered in a box in 1985. From that you can discern the brand and model of the bass and the pick-ups/preamp? Are you trolling me? Lol.

>>>I'm pretty certain I'm hearing frets, particularly during hammer-ons in the lower register - but it's possible that the player is really beating the heck out of the strings on a fretless.

Again -- "I am pretty certain ... but it is possible" ... is not worth anything to moving forwards. Give me some facts to find the players.

>>> Another thing - and it's possible I'm mis-hearing the lyric, but one line seems to mention Microlights, which weren't invented until the late 70's.

No idea where or what you hear that. I have dissected that song for months now. Nothing about "microlights".

Thanks again, but devils-advocate questions towards me are not gunna solve this. Only answers to my questions from those who know more than me. Cheers.
 
#30
Wood and Wire said:
Packman, chasing ghosts around the maze.
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I agree with @Wood and Wire... Production values seem post 1970s. Drum sound is almost like 1980s pop. Vocal chain seems more modern and in front.
I would also bet his favorite underpants on this... Especially if this is a 3rd or 4th generation recording... If this was a 3rd gen recording of something from the early 70s... It wouldn't sound this consistent. There would likely be more warble and flutter - beyond what is there.
Note: I hear his underpants are very nice...
Second note: I have worked on remastering recordings from the late 1960s within the past year.
 
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#31
@JamesDeGrandis and @Wood and Wire

So, if what you say is correct, the reputed origins of the 1985 tape are false. This makes the whole matter a deception, a misdirection, a musical trolling.

There are those who believe the Mysterious Songs on the Internet (there's quite a few) are exactly that -- elaborate scams to benefit some website from the controversy. But I find that harder to believe than their authenticity. Who would record such pieces and never claim authorship? Thanks for input.
 
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#32
SwamiB said:
@JamesDeGrandis and @Wood and Wire

So, if what you say is correct, the reputed origins of the 1985 tape are false. This makes the whole matter a deception, a misdirection, a musical trolling.

There are those who believe the Mysterious Songs on the Internet (there's quite a few) are exactly that -- elaborate scams to benefit some website from the controversy. But I find that harder to believe than their authenticity. Who would record such pieces and never claim authorship? Thanks for input.
Click to expand...
I never said that it couldn't have been found in a box in 1985... I just said it sounded like the production value was closer to that date than 1970.

You asked. I listened. I commented.

This was not a blanket statement toward relics found in boxes that may or may not be hoaxes... was that even a question?
When I look at the original post/statement I didn't read - "Is this a hoax?"
I read... "What do you guys think of this recording who have experience?"

I simply stated that - to me - this doesn't "sound" like an early 1970's recording - and pointed at the reasons why I think that.

You can take that for what it's worth - This is an opinion that no one paid for, but you asked for.
Have fun with the search. I would be interested in if the mystery is ever solved. I don't have any problem admitting that I'm wrong.
If I am wrong and this is from 1970, then this band - or at least this recording - would have been, either accidentally or on purpose, dabbling in sounds that wouldn't become popularized for at least 5 or 6 years. Which puts them in a category of rarity, like the Sparks.
And if it happened once, it could happen again.

And besides, I'm betting someone else's favorite underpants on this - does that seem like a serious bet?
It's music. Have fun. Even if it is a conspiracy - it would be a great story.
 
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#33
JamesDeGrandis
Jezzuz, why so defensive, agro.
I'm thankful for your input and respect it.
I am open to a deception, as some elsewhere have thought.
I'm kind of amazed you can suss such sound engineering signs from a crappy YT upload! I am actually trying to acquire the original cassette (1) for deeper technical analysis, breakdown, re-mastering (I'd even send it to you), (2) to see if the "finder" is real and/or if he has mislead we investigators. I didn't mention the hoax possibility because I WANTED objective opinions on it. I asked, you gave, all good, James. I hope the underpants you win or lose don't get your knickers in a knot! ✌
 
#35
Exactly my thoughts.
Was it simply a dub from the reel to reel master of its time. There were lots of 4 and 8 track home-budget 1/4" recorders in late 60s. I had a TEAC 2340. We gave away cassette demos to radio stations ... which is exactly what I think Light the Lanterns is. Then Tascam made a 4/8 track mixer to cassette master in 78, which it could possibly be -- but noone would give away their master. So many queries!
 
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