Identify the SX vs. Fender in the mix thread

[cheezewiz]

Order a STOCK SX P bass, and repeat the test with the basses SOLOED, or played just with drums. Don't compress the #$%$ out of them like mastered studio cuts always are, THEN it's a fair and accurate test.

 

[mongo2]

Maybe if the pickup in the SX was stock instead of a nice quality pickup like the Lollar. It would be a more fair blindfold test.

Why should the SX be stock? Many, many, many, many, many Fenders are modded with non Fender pickups and are still called Fenders.

Order a STOCK SX P bass, and repeat the test with the basses SOLOED, or played just with drums. Don't compress the #$%$ out of them like mastered studio cuts always are, THEN it's a fair and accurate test.

Again, why? All the tracks were recorded in an appropriate environment the way the instruments are frequently used. It's a more level playing field and demonstrates how the instruments perform in a real life situation.

 

[spaz21387]

your in a band with mark lind of the ducky boys? thats awesome. great basslines btw. its still hard to distinguish p basses all sound pretty similar.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Why should the SX be stock?

Because one of the biggest controversies is how many owners feel that it sounds so great with it's own pickup in it.

And that is the true blindfold test.

A lollar P bass pickup vs a Fender P bass pickup is really of a different quality than an SX P bass pickup. But how different are the three really?

Many, many, many, many, many Fenders are modded with non Fender pickups and are still called Fenders.

This is not a Fender vs Fender blindfold test.

 

[mongo2]

This is not a Fender vs Fender blindfold test.

No it's not. It's better. It shows that a lowly SX with the same modification found on many Fenders holds it's own with not only an actual Fender but an actual stock Pre-CBS Fender, the holy grail for many bass owners.

 

[Darkstrike]

Meh about the stock deal, modded it proves something far more important.

Say, he spent 300 bucks all told, SX P, Lollar pickup, Tort Guard, pro setup.

For that, he has a bass that looks great, feels great(to him, most importantly), and cops the sound of the holy grail pre-CBS Fender thats worth thousands, both live and on record.
And not only cops the sound, but gets it so close that no one can tell which bass is which, by ears alone, on the records, where it matters to an artist, who gives a damn about solo bass vs. solo bass tone, when its all about in the whole picture, i.e. how it sounds in the mix.

Sounds like a good deal to me.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

No it's not. It's better. It shows that a lowly SX with the same modification found on many Fenders holds it's own with not only an actual Fender but an actual stock Pre-CBS Fender, the holy grail for many bass owners.

A stock SX P bass with stock SX pickup vs Fender P bass is the true blindfold test.

 

[denchiq]

waiting for fesults, nevertheless it was fun

 

[mongo2]

A stock SX P bass with stock SX pickup vs Fender P bass is the true blindfold test.

It doesn't really matter what pickup is in either. The fact remains that such a simple modification to a really inexpensive bass costing about $200 with the mod allows it to match the performance of a stock Pre-CBS Fender selling for many thousands.

 

[Joe Nerve]

so if one can't tell the difference is that saying that an sx is a great bass, or an old fender is a crap bass? i'd like to argue this one, but i won't.

 

[mongo2]

so if one can't tell the difference is that saying that an sx is a great bass, or an old fender is a crap bass? i'd like to argue this one, but i won't.

I suppose what it says is that they're equal where it counts. Whether that's good or bad is up to the individual.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

It doesn't really matter what pickup is in either.

It does matter because the pickup changes the game. And it especially changes the game in regards to what a true stock SX is really suppose to sound like.

The fact remains that such a simple modification to a really inexpensive bass costing about $200 with the mod allows it to match the performance of a stock Pre-CBS Fender selling for many thousands.

The simple mod is getting the SX closer to that of the P bass and that really defeats one of the aspects of what the SX supposedly stands for.

Again this is not a true blindfold test.


And no I have no issues at all with savit260.

 

[somedumbguy]

Death and Taxes = Fender.

I couldn't hear a real difference, but I'm fairly confident in what I say...


Prove me wrong though, it wouldn't hurt my feelings.

 

[mongo2]

Again this is not a true blindfold test.

Again, it really doesn't matter.

What matters is that it clearly demonstrates the simple mod on the SX allows it to match the performance of a Pre-CBS Fender.

That's the interesting part of this thread.

 

[KrisH]

The simple mod is getting the SX closer to that of the P bass and that really defeats one of the aspects of what the SX supposedly stands for.

One of the things I've heard some people say the SX "stands for" is being an inexpensive platform for modding. Although I don't think I've ever modded any of my basses other than a string change and a meticulous setup.

 

[Darkstrike]

It does matter because the pickup changes the game. And it especially changes the game in regards to what a true stock SX is really suppose to sound like.

He never once said that this was to represent a "true stock SX".

Nor does it change the game, as it was his game to start with.

The idea is that enough people are saying its impossible to make an SX sound this much like a vintage Fender, even with mods, and he's crazy to think so.



None of them people have answered this thread yet.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I suppose what it says is that they're equal where it counts. Whether that's good or bad is up to the individual.

It doesn't say that at all... unless listening to recordings is all that counts.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

He never once said that this was to represent a "true stock SX".

Nor does it change the game, as it was his game to start with.

The idea is that enough people are saying its impossible to make an SX sound this much like a vintage Fender, even with mods, and he's crazy to think so.



None of them people have answered this thread yet.

I know what the op said and I am very aware of what he did.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I have said what I have to say, and the thread got locked, and because this is basically Savit's forum, and everyone looks up to him and respects the hell out of him...it matters not what I say.

I will point out that not one expert luthier or bass designer (and there are a few that inhabit this forum) have chimed in. I know why. They don't want to be savaged and brutalized by posters on this forum.

They have not been in the bass building business for years, only to be killed with negative publicity.

I will hold out hope that one of them will ultimately tell you in their own words why they prefer thier basses over these SXs.

As for A/B blind tests and comparisons, they are almost meaningless over the internet. I can tell the sonic and tactile difference between my cheap bass and my good bass. I freely admit it is HARD to tell in King Savit's examples.

I have pointed it out before, but the Digital hammond organ sounds almost identical to a real hammond, but what do you think good hammond players really prefer to play? In fact, in some situations, it is possible to record the sound of a 99 dollar Casio playing a Hammond organ patch, and I might be able to fool a lot of you.

Then again, it also related to the TYPE of music you play. Music with a lot of distorted guitars tends to erase all subtleties. You can't hear a lot of the other instruments nuances at all, because of the square-wave, white-noisy sound of the guitars. You can't tell if the drummer is using a maple or beech shell. Whether his drums were made in Taiwan, or in England.

But if you are into clean sounding music, or music with a lot of space, or music featuring solo bass, or any other styles except hard rock, then is it just possible that a good quality instrument might make a difference?

Is there a reason (beyond having lots of money) that most bassists that are pros use good equiptment?

My chief issue is, this is an internet TALK forum, but for the most part, like all forums is filled with veteran posters that can do and say nothing wrong. Savit is one of them. His reputation on this forum is so solidified, that even the moderators rush to defend him. That's ok. I see that on other forums as well.

Savit is a good bassist. No argument there. But there are also other people that might be good bassists as well. And it is possible that there are bassists that are GREAT and don't bother to post here at all. Yes, TB is a great resource, but it is NOT the only group of bass players on this planet.

The fact that not too many luthiers and bass builders post here is VERY telling. They don't want their products savaged on the internet by a bunch of backseat drivers.

What I take offense at, are posters saying **** like "it's only a poor craftsman who blames his tools" when EVERY good craftsman I know (in ANY field of endeavor) uses EXCELLENT tools.

My overiding suspicion (and I noticed a few other people came close to ackowledging this) is that SX worship is an ego thing. it's about proving to the world that you are such a great bass player that you can make ANY bass sound good.

But really, in what universe would any one own a 2008 Fender, and a 99 dollar SX, and say with a straight face that they use the 99 dollar SX more?

I have said what I needed to say, Savit. You are entitled to your opinion, but we are going to have to agree to disagree. I have failed your test. I really can't tell from YOUR playing or YOUR basses which one is which. few probably could. But I am sticking to my guns that I can definitely tell the difference when I am playing a cheap bass, or a great bass. I can tell because of the 100s of details that go into a good bass. I can tell by the vibrations coming out of the bass through my body, even not plugged in.

And, I will go you one better: I love my 96 P-bass. Love it. But my cousin scored a Fender custom shop P-bass (reliced, even!) and that thing BLEW my p-bass away! The bass was so good and delicious that I popped my wad just playing it. I did not want to let it go. The bass cost about 4000, by the way..and sounded and felt like it did!

I felt the same way when I got to play a Bob Glaub one time.


Link Removed

Oh the angst. This is just chock full of funny stuff. Does everyone really look up to him? Is this really his forum? Did expert luthiers/ bass designers really confide in you that they'd respond if it weren't for being savaged? Will Wilma stop seeing Chad? Tune in next time...

 

[Brad Johnson]

Order a STOCK SX P bass, and repeat the test with the basses SOLOED, or played just with drums. Don't compress the #$%$ out of them like mastered studio cuts always are, THEN it's a fair and accurate test.

+1. A heck of a lot better "test" than it currently is.

It's amazing that some in this thread don't see the problem of having the bass that deep in the mix.