Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Identify the SX vs. Fender in the mix thread
- Thread starter savit260
- Start date
Well FWIW its what i have said all along. The standard P bass sound is hard to tell from a Fender P to all kinds of other P bass copies from top of the line to SX. Its a solid bass tone that is just solid and in ther mix and very hard to tell it apart from a $100.00 P bass or a $3000 P bass if its done thru the same gear amp etc. If the bass is strung with the same strings and the same riff is played....its a toss up for the most part IMO.
The SX with the lollar pups are like supercharging a bass. I think one thing about SX basses that were decent were the pups. I didnt like the plastic coated necks,hardware or the feel of the basses much overall. I will agree thou for the money the are great. I prefer Fender since my hands have been wrapped around them for years. I take used MIM's and drop in better pups and do the same thing..make them sound better.
I dont think it would matter what P bass Savit would be playing an Sx, Peavy,fender etc he would sound killer doing it and hard as heck to tell the basses apart..period.
The SX with the lollar pups are like supercharging a bass. I think one thing about SX basses that were decent were the pups. I didnt like the plastic coated necks,hardware or the feel of the basses much overall. I will agree thou for the money the are great. I prefer Fender since my hands have been wrapped around them for years. I take used MIM's and drop in better pups and do the same thing..make them sound better.
I dont think it would matter what P bass Savit would be playing an Sx, Peavy,fender etc he would sound killer doing it and hard as heck to tell the basses apart..period.
Savit, I can't tell the difference. People in my soundclip challenges can't either. They can't even tell the difference between a P and a J sometimes. You and I both know the reason the crickets are chirping is because Lucas et al. know their ears can't discern the difference.
Consider it a no contest victory.
Didn't realize that this thread was aimed aimed at particular people.
Apparently some do look at this thread as some sort of proof, savit260.
I can't listen to them here at work, but I'd be curious to see if I can hear any difference. I'm no self-proclaimed "tone expert" so I don't expect to be able to identify which is which. I just think these test are always interesting just to see the results. That and I also get some perverse pleasure from seeing the so-called "experts" being wrong in many cases. 
In case you recognize my screen name as one of the people who've expresed an overall negative opinion about SX, you'd be right. I've done that on multiple occassions. However, like all your posts that I've read, my opinion is based on my own personal experience with my own personal SX and my own interactions Rondo and I've also been very careful to stick to the facts rather than parroting the other parrots who simply jump in to say "SX Sux!!!". I've also always balanced my opinions with something along the lines of "However, most people here have had far better experiences than I have, so odds appear in your favor, especially if you buy it as a platform to mod.". So while my overall conclusion is opposite yours, I have no problem with anything you've said because it's based on your real experiences.
I've also said many times that my experience with my SX isn't totally negative. My SX is totally stock (and I mean STOCK, not stock the way many SX owners seem to describe their ~$100 bass, a la this post
) and I *do* like the way it sounds. Pretty nice tone for a bass that only cost $130.
Anyway, I'll try to give the samples a listen tonight. Should be fun.
In case you recognize my screen name as one of the people who've expresed an overall negative opinion about SX, you'd be right. I've done that on multiple occassions. However, like all your posts that I've read, my opinion is based on my own personal experience with my own personal SX and my own interactions Rondo and I've also been very careful to stick to the facts rather than parroting the other parrots who simply jump in to say "SX Sux!!!". I've also always balanced my opinions with something along the lines of "However, most people here have had far better experiences than I have, so odds appear in your favor, especially if you buy it as a platform to mod.". So while my overall conclusion is opposite yours, I have no problem with anything you've said because it's based on your real experiences.
I've also said many times that my experience with my SX isn't totally negative. My SX is totally stock (and I mean STOCK, not stock the way many SX owners seem to describe their ~$100 bass, a la this post
) and I *do* like the way it sounds. Pretty nice tone for a bass that only cost $130. Anyway, I'll try to give the samples a listen tonight. Should be fun.
People say all sorts of ignorant stuff, you cited a painfully obvious example
I guess there's only so many times people can call you out by name, and call your bass a "P.O.S." before you ask them to put their money where there mouth is LOL!!
Here's where I believe the guantlet got thrown down. LOL!!
and this one.
Of course the many others that have refered to SX's as "canoe paddles, fire wood, crap, junk , p.o.s only worthy of smashing etc. etc. " over the years probably had a bit to do with it as well LOL!!!
Fortunatly, I have a sense of humor!
After several of these type of threads, I am more convinced than ever that putting emphasis on what's on the headstock amounts to pure snobbery. The majority of listeners can not distinguish the cheap bass from the expensive bass in the mix.
All three of my working basses SX, 2008 American Standard Precision, and the old 64 Pecisioin have pretty much the same set up on them.
They all have Fender 7150's on them, and currently have the action at the 12th fret set around 5/64"with minimal relief.
This is just where I like them these days.
Of the three, they all have a slightly different feel, but they all feel EXTREEMLY good to me.
The SX is probably the easiest of the three to play, but they're all within spitting distance of each other. The old Fender is the sentimental favorite though.
That's the one that "brought me to the dance" so to speak. 
Well, since this has turned into what it has, I can summarize my opinion of SX this way; they are fun. No more, no less. Certain basses will physically and tonally inhibit how much fun you can have with the instrument, making you dread picking it up, but this is not SX's case and at $100 that is a pretty big deal. Both a Honda and a Maserati will get you from A to B at the same speed limit, but I bet you anything that you would enjoy the luxury of the Maserati whilst at the same time you would gladly buy the Honda if you couldn't afford the Maserati, while at the same time you wouldn't even accept something like a Trabant for free 
I guess there's only so many times people can call you out by name, and call your bass a "P.O.S." before you ask them to put their money where there mouth is LOL!!
Here's where I believe the guantlet got thrown down. LOL!!
and this one.
Of course the many others that have refered to SX's as "canoe paddles, fire wood, crap, junk , p.o.s only worthy of smashing etc. etc. " over the years probably had a bit to do with it as well LOL!!!
Fortunatly, I have a sense of humor!
And having a sense of humor is a good thing. You have to ask yourself if having the approval of some of these folks is important. If the answer is yes, then of course you should buy whatever impresses them
Bottom line, do you care what ignorant (benign or not) people care about your gear? I know I don't... so don't sweat it. Here's a reasonably simple equation...
If SX totally sux, then it should suck no matter who plays it. If you can play it and not suck, the mantle of sux then moves from the bass to the person who could not suck while playing it.
You can be like me (and apparently you are) and just laugh it off for the ultimately ignorant babble it is.
Again, if recordings are the sum total of your exposure to an instrument, cool. A recording tells the listener NOTHING about the physicality of the bass. Physicality matters. That should be obvious to any musician capable of a modicum of critical thought. And as a bassist who actually has to physically interact with his instruments, I find the mindset of the importance of recordings to be mindnumbingly funny.
Now let's see how long it takes for that golden chesnut, "the audience doesn't care" to pop up again.
Or it could merely be that some have found what they like. There shouldn't intrinsically be anything wrong with that.
Again, listening to a recording is not the sum total of the bass experience. Not sure why anyone would act like it is by ignoring everything you don't experience outside of the recording. But people do.
And having a sense of humor is a good think. You have to ask yourself if having the approval of some of these folks is important. If the answer is yes, then of course you should buy whatever impresses them
Bottom line, do you care what ignorant (benign or not) people care about your gear? I know I don't... so don't sweat it. Here's a reasonably simple equation...
If SX totally sux, then it should suck no matter who plays it. If you can play it and not suck, the mantle of sux then moves from the bass to the person who could not suck while playing it.
You can be like me (and apparently you are) and just laugh it off for the ultimately ignorant babble it is.
Again, if recordings are the sum total of your exposure to an instrument, cool. A recording tells the listener NOTHING about the physicality of the bass. Physicality matters. That should be obvious to any musician capable of a modicum of critical thought. And as a bassist who actually has to physically interact with his instruments, I find the mindset of the importance of recordings to be mindnumbingly funny.
Now let's see how long it takes for that golden chesnut, "the audience doesn't care" to pop up again.
I agree with everything you're saying. I also agree about the interaction with the instrument aspect as well, but seeing how we can't pass my SX around the internet... recordings will have to be the next best thing.
While we're on that subject though... I've spent time dialing the sound and the feel of the SX in to get it where I'm thrilled with it.
The basics of it aren't really any different than an older Fender. A little TLC has it where it can hang with it's Fender relatives quite well IMO. The core of the instrument isn't signifigantly different than a propper Fender. To me, the SX has a feel very similar to an early-ish 70's era Fender.
Okay, just for fun, I'll say the first Death and Taxes track is the Fender, and the second track from Mark Lind is the SX. I say this just because I like the tone of the first track on Death and Taxes better, and, well, gee... isn't the Fender supposed to sound better?
FWIW, I like the Death and Taxes stuff a lot.
I had a "cheapo" Peavey Milestone P-Bass a while back that had a great neck and very nice P-bass tone. I put in some expensive pickups and... it sounded worse!
Well, at least to me it did.
Anyway, I always like these threads, thanks Savit.
BTW, if I ever could have gotten my SX Jazz bass to play as comfortably as I'd have liked, I would certainly have kept it, because the tone was fine with the stock pups.
FWIW, I like the Death and Taxes stuff a lot.
I had a "cheapo" Peavey Milestone P-Bass a while back that had a great neck and very nice P-bass tone. I put in some expensive pickups and... it sounded worse!
Well, at least to me it did. Anyway, I always like these threads, thanks Savit.
BTW, if I ever could have gotten my SX Jazz bass to play as comfortably as I'd have liked, I would certainly have kept it, because the tone was fine with the stock pups.
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
Maybe if the pickup in the SX was stock instead of a nice quality pickup like the Lollar. It would be a more fair blindfold test.
I have said what I have to say, and the thread got locked, and because this is basically Savit's forum, and everyone looks up to him and respects the hell out of him...it matters not what I say.
I will point out that not one expert luthier or bass designer (and there are a few that inhabit this forum) have chimed in. I know why. They don't want to be savaged and brutalized by posters on this forum.
They have not been in the bass building business for years, only to be killed with negative publicity.
I will hold out hope that one of them will ultimately tell you in their own words why they prefer thier basses over these SXs.
As for A/B blind tests and comparisons, they are almost meaningless over the internet. I can tell the sonic and tactile difference between my cheap bass and my good bass. I freely admit it is HARD to tell in King Savit's examples.
I have pointed it out before, but the Digital hammond organ sounds almost identical to a real hammond, but what do you think good hammond players really prefer to play? In fact, in some situations, it is possible to record the sound of a 99 dollar Casio playing a Hammond organ patch, and I might be able to fool a lot of you.
Then again, it also related to the TYPE of music you play. Music with a lot of distorted guitars tends to erase all subtleties. You can't hear a lot of the other instruments nuances at all, because of the square-wave, white-noisy sound of the guitars. You can't tell if the drummer is using a maple or beech shell. Whether his drums were made in Taiwan, or in England.
But if you are into clean sounding music, or music with a lot of space, or music featuring solo bass, or any other styles except hard rock, then is it just possible that a good quality instrument might make a difference?
Is there a reason (beyond having lots of money) that most bassists that are pros use good equiptment?
My chief issue is, this is an internet TALK forum, but for the most part, like all forums is filled with veteran posters that can do and say nothing wrong. Savit is one of them. His reputation on this forum is so solidified, that even the moderators rush to defend him. That's ok. I see that on other forums as well.
Savit is a good bassist. No argument there. But there are also other people that might be good bassists as well. And it is possible that there are bassists that are GREAT and don't bother to post here at all. Yes, TB is a great resource, but it is NOT the only group of bass players on this planet.
The fact that not too many luthiers and bass builders post here is VERY telling. They don't want their products savaged on the internet by a bunch of backseat drivers.
What I take offense at, are posters saying **** like "it's only a poor craftsman who blames his tools" when EVERY good craftsman I know (in ANY field of endeavor) uses EXCELLENT tools.
My overiding suspicion (and I noticed a few other people came close to ackowledging this) is that SX worship is an ego thing. it's about proving to the world that you are such a great bass player that you can make ANY bass sound good.
But really, in what universe would any one own a 2008 Fender, and a 99 dollar SX, and say with a straight face that they use the 99 dollar SX more?
I have said what I needed to say, Savit. You are entitled to your opinion, but we are going to have to agree to disagree. I have failed your test. I really can't tell from YOUR playing or YOUR basses which one is which. few probably could. But I am sticking to my guns that I can definitely tell the difference when I am playing a cheap bass, or a great bass. I can tell because of the 100s of details that go into a good bass. I can tell by the vibrations coming out of the bass through my body, even not plugged in.
And, I will go you one better: I love my 96 P-bass. Love it. But my cousin scored a Fender custom shop P-bass (reliced, even!) and that thing BLEW my p-bass away! The bass was so good and delicious that I popped my wad just playing it. I did not want to let it go. The bass cost about 4000, by the way..and sounded and felt like it did!
I felt the same way when I got to play a Bob Glaub one time.
Link Removed
I will point out that not one expert luthier or bass designer (and there are a few that inhabit this forum) have chimed in. I know why. They don't want to be savaged and brutalized by posters on this forum.
They have not been in the bass building business for years, only to be killed with negative publicity.
I will hold out hope that one of them will ultimately tell you in their own words why they prefer thier basses over these SXs.
As for A/B blind tests and comparisons, they are almost meaningless over the internet. I can tell the sonic and tactile difference between my cheap bass and my good bass. I freely admit it is HARD to tell in King Savit's examples.
I have pointed it out before, but the Digital hammond organ sounds almost identical to a real hammond, but what do you think good hammond players really prefer to play? In fact, in some situations, it is possible to record the sound of a 99 dollar Casio playing a Hammond organ patch, and I might be able to fool a lot of you.
Then again, it also related to the TYPE of music you play. Music with a lot of distorted guitars tends to erase all subtleties. You can't hear a lot of the other instruments nuances at all, because of the square-wave, white-noisy sound of the guitars. You can't tell if the drummer is using a maple or beech shell. Whether his drums were made in Taiwan, or in England.
But if you are into clean sounding music, or music with a lot of space, or music featuring solo bass, or any other styles except hard rock, then is it just possible that a good quality instrument might make a difference?
Is there a reason (beyond having lots of money) that most bassists that are pros use good equiptment?
My chief issue is, this is an internet TALK forum, but for the most part, like all forums is filled with veteran posters that can do and say nothing wrong. Savit is one of them. His reputation on this forum is so solidified, that even the moderators rush to defend him. That's ok. I see that on other forums as well.
Savit is a good bassist. No argument there. But there are also other people that might be good bassists as well. And it is possible that there are bassists that are GREAT and don't bother to post here at all. Yes, TB is a great resource, but it is NOT the only group of bass players on this planet.
The fact that not too many luthiers and bass builders post here is VERY telling. They don't want their products savaged on the internet by a bunch of backseat drivers.
What I take offense at, are posters saying **** like "it's only a poor craftsman who blames his tools" when EVERY good craftsman I know (in ANY field of endeavor) uses EXCELLENT tools.
My overiding suspicion (and I noticed a few other people came close to ackowledging this) is that SX worship is an ego thing. it's about proving to the world that you are such a great bass player that you can make ANY bass sound good.
But really, in what universe would any one own a 2008 Fender, and a 99 dollar SX, and say with a straight face that they use the 99 dollar SX more?
I have said what I needed to say, Savit. You are entitled to your opinion, but we are going to have to agree to disagree. I have failed your test. I really can't tell from YOUR playing or YOUR basses which one is which. few probably could. But I am sticking to my guns that I can definitely tell the difference when I am playing a cheap bass, or a great bass. I can tell because of the 100s of details that go into a good bass. I can tell by the vibrations coming out of the bass through my body, even not plugged in.
And, I will go you one better: I love my 96 P-bass. Love it. But my cousin scored a Fender custom shop P-bass (reliced, even!) and that thing BLEW my p-bass away! The bass was so good and delicious that I popped my wad just playing it. I did not want to let it go. The bass cost about 4000, by the way..and sounded and felt like it did!
I felt the same way when I got to play a Bob Glaub one time.
Link Removed
Okay, just for fun, I'll say the first Death and Taxes track is the Fender, and the second track from Mark Lind is the SX. I say this just because I like the tone of the first track on Death and Taxes better, and, well, gee... isn't the Fender supposed to sound better?
FWIW, I like the Death and Taxes stuff a lot.
Glad you like the D&T stuff.. Thanks.
All I hear on the second track on the Lind & Unloved page is BRAND SPANKIN NEW strings!! LOL!!!!
Restrung both basses that morning.
Ugg... kicking myself for not breaking them in a little first (like an hours worth would have been good) , but we were busy as hell that week. I think that was the first track recorded from that session.
