Identify the SX vs. Fender in the mix thread

[somedumbguy]

The people that claim that it isn't a fair test are wrong.

If you don't agree w/ the pickup installation, why not? It's a cheap mod and it's the whole point of this thread "a cheap bass sounds just as good as an expensive bass."

If you think it isn't fair becaue the bass tracks aren't soloed... why is that not fair? Don't you play with a band... and don't you record...with a band.

In fact, do you play music that is bass only (outside of practice)? Would you listen to bass only music? I wouldn't, it would sound horrible.

The point he was making is clear: a cheap bass can sound just as good as an expensive bass, in a band setting... which is how (most likely) we play our music.

Also, if you think I am by some reason flaming you for your opinion, I'm not. This is the internet and tone of voice is difficult to determine.

 

[WoodyG3]

A stock SX P bass with stock SX pickup vs Fender P bass is the true blindfold test.

I agree that that would be the true "blindfold" test. This is more of a "can an inexpensive bass with a good pickup replacement sound as good as a vintage Fender" thread. And that test also has a pretty significant value.

Anyway, the one thing we'll never be able to test without holding the basses in our hands is the feel, balance and playability of the bass. Also, of course, the consistency of build quality. Is Savit's SX one in a thousand, one in ten, or are most of them of the quality that his is?

Meh, no matter, really. I be goin' to bed. Carry on!

 

[JAUQO III-X]

The people that claim that it isn't a fair test are wrong.

If you don't agree w/ the pickup installation, why not? It's a cheap mod and it's the whole point of this thread "a cheap bass sounds just as good as an expensive bass."

If you think it isn't fair becaue the bass tracks aren't soloed... why is that not fair? Don't you play with a band... and don't you record...with a band.

In fact, do you play music that is bass only (outside of practice)? Would you listen to bass only music? I wouldn't, it would sound horrible.

The point he was making is clear: a cheap bass can sound just as good as an expensive bass, in a band setting... which is how (most likely) we play our music.

Also, if you think I am by some reason flaming you for your opinion, I'm not. This is the internet and tone of voice is difficult to determine.

Well I'm not interested in hearing the tracks. Therefore I didn't listen to them.

 

[Brad Johnson]

The people that claim that it isn't a fair test are wrong.

If you don't agree w/ the pickup installation, why not? It's a cheap mod and it's the whole point of this thread "a cheap bass sounds just as good as an expensive bass."

If you think it isn't fair becaue the bass tracks aren't soloed... why is that not fair? Don't you play with a band... and don't you record...with a band.

In fact, do you play music that is bass only (outside of practice)? Would you listen to bass only music? I wouldn't, it would sound horrible.

The point he was making is clear: a cheap bass can sound just as good as an expensive bass, in a band setting... which is how (most likely) we play our music.

Also, if you think I am by some reason flaming you for your opinion, I'm not. This is the internet and tone of voice is difficult to determine.

They're no more wrong than you are right. They're both OPINIONS.


And if the point is that being heavily masked (not a criticism, it just is) in the mix is the way to judge an instrument, cool. that may be the way many of you will use it... but not everyone. Why not play it through a pedalboard, lots of people do that too?

In a more sparse mix (yes, people do that too) it is possible to hear more nuance than what we're hearing. And for people who go for that sort of thing...

see, it's not as simple as you think.

 

[Mam]

On the profile photo for Death & Taxes we can see the bassist with a sunburst P...just like the '64...so I assume that its this bassist who use the '64 haha!

 

[thrashingbass]

I think people are often too sensitive. I no doubt think that the SX would also sound great soloed without compression. Reason being that Lollar pickups are amazing. I admit both my inexpensive basses sounded just fine, but muddy with the cheap stock pups. Once upgraded (Delano and Lollar respectively) they are a joy to play. Which is important, because making music, whether practicing or performing onstage, should, IMO, be fun. As of now, I would love to have a MIJ Fender P bass, but cannot afford it. I have played one, though, and my p bass clone didn't do worse. Actually felt better, and the sound is clearer, without losing that P bass character (talking about Delano pc4al). Having a Lollar set on my other semi cheap bass, I imagine the Lollar P pickup must be king.


Let people play whatever they want. Let them mod. If I had a SX, I would also immediately add some other pickups. I see no crime or harm done, the bass is not likely to depreciate (or increase in value either) due to the switch. And it may actually sound much better after it.

Lucas Vigor, don't take these things too seriously. Play your basses, I have to do with what I have, much like you did in the beginning, save that now inexpensive basses are better made. Have fun playing bass: my goal.

 

[Tim C.]

Wait a minute!

...People still actually give a **** about this kind of thing?

 

[thrashingbass]

Additionally, if you like how the bass feels and plays unplugged, but that great sound is in your opinion, not being translated to amplified sound, then the pickups might be masking how your bass was "supposed to sound." Granted, all pickups will, to an extent, impart their own character to any bass, but the best ones, IMO, are those that do so while replicating how your instrument really sounds unplugged.

Which says much about the SX as well. If it sounds so close to the pre cbs Fender, it must have been constructed fairly well.

 

[Basshoofd]

Can we atleast agree that this SX with the upgraded pickup sounds great in the recordings?

I personally don't care about the 'true sound' of my bass, I care about how it sounds in the end. Whether it be with tons of compression etc or not, if it is perceived as great then I'm completely satisfied.

 

[cassanova]

The people that claim that it isn't a fair test are wrong.

How are they wrong? It's opinion not fact.

If you don't agree w/ the pickup installation, why not? It's a cheap mod and it's the whole point of this thread "a cheap bass sounds just as good as an expensive bass."

Because it's been modified to sound better than what it normally would if it were still stock. Would the difference in tone be more prominent if the SX weren't modded? Providing the quality of body wood is good and you install quality pots, electronics and pickups you can make most any cheap P or Jazz knock off sound like the Fenders.

The point he was making is clear: a cheap bass can sound just as good as an expensive bass, in a band setting... which is how (most likely) we play our music.

Like wise a boutique bass can sound like pure crap in the hands of the wrong player.

 

[mongo2]

It doesn't say that at all... unless listening to recordings is all that counts.

Tone in real life situations is where it counts. Recording is one of those real life situations.

 

[mongo2]

Providing the quality of body wood is good and you install quality pots, electronics and pickups you can make most any cheap P or Jazz knock off sound like the Fenders.

I believe that may be the lesson learned in this thread.

 

[JimmyM]

interesting thread. some of you apparently remember my sx vs 79 p thread, where most people thought the sx was the fender. ended up selling that 79 partly because of it, and because it had a neck radius i don't like anymore.

however, i'm going to put flats on them and not use them regularly anymore. yes, in a mix they sound like the real thing, but i don't think they have very good harmonic content. whereas on all my other basses the harmonics pop out easy enough, it's a struggle to get any harmonic volume at all out of the sx's. not important if you don't do harmonics, but i do.

regardless, savit is right...nobody can tell the difference in a mix except you and the producer, and maybe not even him. i also think it was fair enough...savit proved nobody can tell the difference between a cheap bass and a collector's item. i certainly couldn't.

 

[bassbully]

I believe that may be the lesson learned in this thread.

That's what i said earlier in this post. Its a P bass...not to hard to get a decent tone if you get a good platform and pup.I don't think the fender sound was ever hard to duplicate and they never tried to hide that fact ex. Look at their preamps they are great passive basses the "Standard" for jazz and P basses and not Rocket science.

 

[Febs]

Again, why?

Because the proper way to design a blind A/B test is to change only one variable and then test to see if the subjects can consistently distinguish between A and B. This thread is interesting in that contains a number of soundclips with good recorded sounds from an SX, and that may have value in and of itself to those of you who get so defensive about playing SXs, but it does not demonstrate in any statistically meaningful way that the sound of an SX is indistinguishable from the sound of a Fender, and it certainly does not demonstrate that an SX plays like a Fender.

With that said, who cares? If you have an SX and enjoy playing it, then play it!

 

[GassieBall]

Savit, for goodness sake, please run a chi square analysis on this test next time, OK? LOL!

 

[JAUQO III-X]

i also think it was fair enough...savit proved nobody can tell the difference between a cheap bass and a collector's item.

He didn't prove anything.

It's no longer the same bass once Savit changed the pickup.



Put that Fender up against the pickup that was originally in the SX.

 

[JimmyM]

jauqo, the pickups in the sx basses kick much ass imho. probably the best thing about them, other than the too-high polepieces. i really don't think it would make much of a difference.

 

[stingray69]

This is (in my recollection) the first A/B SX thread where the stock pickups were replaced. Tougher than others, maybe marginally... However, all the others have been exactly what people have been asking for - stock pickups, no accompany tracks (in some cases, a simple drum track), yet those were overwhelmingly failed by listeners too. I also recall a really interesting one where the stock SX pickup was A/B'ed against a set of Fender CS 60 pickups in the same bass. The difference again, was nearly indistinguishable and again, overwhelmingly failed by listeners. I guess what I'm getting at is that I wouldn't be so sure that the stock pickup would be a safe bet to help anyone discern too much of anything. At the very least, this could be a better test of the overall build quality (quality tone woods, construction, etc) that so many people like to bag on.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

jauqo, the pickups in the sx basses kick much ass imho. probably the best thing about them, other than the too-high polepieces. i really don't think it would make much of a difference.

Jimmy that's the whole point. Let that stock SX pickup shine in a blindfold test.


That would be one of the better ways of shutting the SX haters up.