Double Bass Identifying S42 vs. 3885.0

[TroyK]

Right. And keep track of the measurements for the next time someone asks "Is this an S42 or a 3885?"

It's frustrating, and I don't understand why Thomastik did this. Especially when they're messing with (possibly?) their best selling string.

My assumption is that because in their minds, they were making Medium and Light gauge Spirocores and offering them for either 4/4 or 3/4 basses. Also, solo strings were offered for a specific orchestral application in which they would be tuned up a whole step. They weren't trying to offer...what is it 6? different gauges of Spirocores which might be used on a 3/4 bass.

But, anyone bringing anything to market from this point forward, should know better.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

The identifying issue is a problem, as I much prefer the 3885 strings on a 3/4 bass over the S42. It's easy enough when buying them new, except that S42 seems to be the "standard" for some reason and I wish I'd known about the difference sooner. The 3885 make an excellent gradation of slightly stronger/stiffer string between the S42 mittel and Spiro stark sets.

 

[jsf729]

The identifying issue is a problem, as I much prefer the 3885 strings on a 3/4 bass over the S42. It's easy enough when buying them new, except that S42 seems to be the "standard" for some reason and I wish I'd known about the difference sooner. The 3885 make an excellent gradation of slightly stronger/stiffer string between the S42 mittel and Spiro stark sets.

Exactly Chris. Unfortunately I don't have that luxury (purchasing new so I would know), that's why I want to get to the bottom of it- for (knowledgeable) future purchases. As others have said, it's weird that they cannot be easily identified. I plan on measuring this evening and comparing the measurements to a set of (I believe) 4/4 Superflexibles. Hopefully this will help other TBers in the future as well

 

[jsf729]

Hello All,
Just following up as promised.Hope I'm not over analyzing this! I've measured my Spiros to my Superflexibles and the results are inconclusive. I don't know what TI terms "vibrating string length", but here's what I have:
Spiros:
Silk to silk- 124 cm
Silk at ball end- 14.5 cm
Superflexible:
Silk to silk- 120.5 cm
Silk at ball end-18 cm

So as others have said, silk length inconclusive
One last thing and I'll stop beating this dead horse- and maybe this was the answer all along- the ball ends on both strings have the string number in Roman Numerals and the the other side of the ball marked "0". Maybe
"0" is the designation for 4/4??????

One thing that is not inconclusive is that these strings SING! Drummer last Sunday asked what I had for breakfast my bass sounded so good! I told him "Spirocores"....

 

[TroyK]

Measure the entire string. S42s will be longer. You just need someone to measure the same string in the same gauge who knows which one they have. It's a significant difference and it will be conclusive.

I would ignore the silks and I don't think you can compare Spiros to Superflexibles.

 

[jsf729]

They are the same length but unfortunately I bought both of them used so still don't know for sure. I think it's safe to assume that the 4/4 are more popular?

 

[TroyK]

I think they are more popular on TalkBass, but tough to say beyond that. There is also a chance that whoever installed it trimmed some length off.

Maybe look for a used set with some known Providence.

 

[Ludwig]

The Superflexibles are available in 3/4 and 4/4 and orchestral and solo tuning, too. If you are not sure, which kind you got, finding it out with used strings is difficult. If you want Superflexibles or Spirocores of a specific type, just buy them new and hope, they where put into the right bag at the factury. Most other strings are just made in one size and you just hope, they will fit your big bass or will not break having to wind the metal part on the pegs with a small bass...

 

[jsf729]

That's the whole point of this "exercise". On my limited budget, I can't afford to plunk down $250 or so and "hope" that I get the string that I want. I've bought a half dozen used sets or so off of TB in my quest for "The Holy Grail" of bass strings, which I would buy new if I had a degree of certainty. It's really king of appalling as other manufacturers such as Pirastro, D'Addario, Corelli etc. strings are readily identifiable. Oh well, at least I really like these and evidently "Dead Spiros" are a somewhat coveted string. At my age, maybe these strings are the last strings I'll ever need anyway! Thanks to all who have contributed

 

[panos]

Ok, let's see my measurements..
Whole string length with ball end:
S42 medium D string - 179 cm
3885 weich D string - 175.5 cm
Hope this helps. Also, attached photo with the ball end side.

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

Has anyone asked Thomastik this question?

 

[Sam Dingle]

That's the whole point of this "exercise". On my limited budget, I can't afford to plunk down $250 or so and "hope" that I get the string that I want. I've bought a half dozen used sets or so off of TB in my quest for "The Holy Grail" of bass strings, which I would buy new if I had a degree of certainty. It's really king of appalling as other manufacturers such as Pirastro, D'Addario, Corelli etc. strings are readily identifiable. Oh well, at least I really like these and evidently "Dead Spiros" are a somewhat coveted string. At my age, maybe these strings are the last strings I'll ever need anyway! Thanks to all who have contributed

Looking at your thread I can only offer this advice.

I only bought one set of 3/4 mediums and that was on accident because the seller was in europe where that is the standard

on my 3/4 german bass with a 41ish scale length the E string of the 4/4 set always had metal wrapping around the lowest peg (e string peg was lowest, some modern basses have the G peg lower)

I clearly remember the 3/4 medium set having no metal around the peg on both the E and G string and there was a good amount of red silk was left. Every time I used 4/4 spiros on that bass both the E string and the G string had metal wrapped around at least twice.

This past summer I bought a new ADG weich 3/4 set from Gollihur. This was put on a shen 3/4 sb 150 with a 4/4 spiro medium E. The spiro medium E had metal around the peg. The G (which I believe was the lowest peg on this one) had no metal around and a good amount of purple silk past it (weich strings have purple silk not red).

So I would argue that if you look in your peg box and your bass is a 3/4 sized bass (42 inch scale or under) and there is metal wrapped around the E or G string then you have 4/4 strings.

Also for what its worth I now have a 7/8ths or 4/4 sized bass with a 43.5 inch scale. Putting 4/4 spiros on that had no metal around the pegs.

 

[jsf729]

Ok, let's see my measurements..
Whole string length with ball end:
S42 medium D string - 179 cm
3885 weich D string - 175.5 cm
Hope this helps. Also, attached photo with the ball end side.View attachment 3679983

Thank-you panos. I guess I should have measured the full string. I measured between the silks. Curious- on the ball ends, other than the string numbers is there a "0" or something else?

 

[TroyK]

Jsf, take your D string back off and measure it and (unless your strings were cut short, by whoever installed them) you'll have your answer.

Check the silk wrapping tip as a 2nd authentication.

 

[panos]

Thank-you panos. I guess I should have measured the full string. I measured between the silks. Curious- on the ball ends, other than the string numbers is there a "0" or something else?

Yes, that's right, every string S42 or 3885 has a "0" on the ball ends.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

It‘s O for orchestral.

 

[jsf729]

Looking at your thread I can only offer this advice.

I only bought one set of 3/4 mediums and that was on accident because the seller was in europe where that is the standard

on my 3/4 german bass with a 41ish scale length the E string of the 4/4 set always had metal wrapping around the lowest peg (e string peg was lowest, some modern basses have the G peg lower)

I clearly remember the 3/4 medium set having no metal around the peg on both the E and G string and there was a good amount of red silk was left. Every time I used 4/4 spiros on that bass both the E string and the G string had metal wrapped around at least twice.

This past summer I bought a new ADG weich 3/4 set from Gollihur. This was put on a shen 3/4 sb 150 with a 4/4 spiro medium E. The spiro medium E had metal around the peg. The G (which I believe was the lowest peg on this one) had no metal around and a good amount of purple silk past it (weich strings have purple silk not red).

So I would argue that if you look in your peg box and your bass is a 3/4 sized bass (42 inch scale or under) and there is metal wrapped around the E or G string then you have 4/4 strings.

Also for what its worth I now have a 7/8ths or 4/4 sized bass with a 43.5 inch scale. Putting 4/4 spiros on that had no metal around the pegs.

Sam, I checked and sure enough the E and G have metal around the peg, so if your recollection is correct it is a 4/4 set. I always thought that the 4/4 were far more popular as when I was "shopping" for strings, the 3/4 set was always "special order".

 

[Sam Dingle]

Sam, I checked and sure enough the E and G have metal around the peg, so if your recollection is correct it is a 4/4 set. I always thought that the 4/4 were far more popular as when I was "shopping" for strings, the 3/4 set was always "special order".

Yep you have 4/4 spiros.

I generally think they work best for everyone IN GENERAL. Everyone should play 4/4 spiro mediums then if they want more tension the Starks, less the weich, and if they feel the need for something in the middle then go down that rabbit hole.

I think we can put this case to rest

 

[jsf729]

Yep you have 4/4 spiros.

I generally think they work best for everyone IN GENERAL. Everyone should play 4/4 spiro mediums then if they want more tension the Starks, less the weich, and if they feel the need for something in the middle then go down that rabbit hole.

I think we can put this case to rest

Amen Brother!

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Yep you have 4/4 spiros.

I generally think they work best for everyone IN GENERAL. Everyone should play 4/4 spiro mediums then if they want more tension the Starks, less the weich, and if they feel the need for something in the middle then go down that rabbit hole.

I think we can put this case to rest

If you would play a 110 cm 5-string with a high C there are not that many choices anymore, even with the prototype Weich high C (that was specified for both 3/4 and 4/4 Spiros which doesn‘t really makes sense tensionwise).

The US dealers might think the 4/4 could be used on 4/4 and 4/4 scale instruments, so half the number of different string types to keep in stock.

You might think different if the only choice for Spiros would have been the 3/4 Stark which is the closest in tension on a 3/4 scale compared with choices for my instrument.

The Spiros were originally made for certain European orchestras. They order strings new, do it for all instruments at the same time and know which strings they need (3/4 for 3/4-instruments, 4/4 for 4/4-instruments, Weich for older instruments). Often the strings are changed by a luthier or a single person responsible for the functioning of the instruments. Usually one type of strings go the one orchestra and a different one to another one. So there was no need to mark the string differently.
And you know what can happen if you want to change established strings or markings. See Pirastro (Name change to Original and color change) and even Innovation did that with the Braided (changing to all black for them).