IEM suggestion

[s0c9]

How would this differ from running sound into a personal headphone mixer to Eq the frequencies to taste, then running that into a single driver? Curious. Is it because you get drivers that are more designed to produce clear low frequencies when there are multiple?

It's simple physics really. Speakers are mechanical and not terribly efficient at producing the full audio spectrum.. that is why multi-way speakers (more than one speaker in a cab with an internal crossover) are more efficient and sound better. Each speaker is producing a specific frequency range. In a 2-way, you might have a 15, 12 or 10 driver and a 1" Tweeter, with a crossover in the 1600-1800+ Hz range, splitting the signal between each speaker.
Think about your PA.. How would it sound if you had no subs, and instead of the average 2 or 3-way tops.. one single speaker that everything was crammed thru and cranked up!! It would sound HORRIBLE.
Now think about that right up against your ear.. that's single drivers.
Distortion, ear fatigue and so on.
With triple driver (or better) buds, you get Low, mid and High frequency drivers with an internal 3-way crossover. You can EQ the input to increase bass, cut highs, etc.
More control, better sound.. for a price !!

 

[s0c9]

Thank you for posting that. I'd heard about why people swear by multiple drivers, isolation, etc, but didn't really know why they were considered so imperative. I've never played via IEM's before and literally JUST decided I wanted to try them out. I ALWAYS have to deal with crappy stage sound when playing through a PA. When I play directly through my cab, the sound is great, but through PA's, I get no clarity and can't really control my sound the way I'd like to. I don't blame the FOH, I just think stage sound is crap, generally.
Considering all that, I'm really curious about IEM's, and this post helped a bit. Gonna do some pretty extensive research from here.

Try rehearsing with full-ear headphones before rushing out and blowing $$$.. That will give you a rough approximation of what you can expect from IEM's.. Remember it's an approximation. You might start with some medium priced universals like the UM30.

 

[Scottkarch]

Try rehearsing with full-ear headphones before rushing out and blowing $$$.. That will give you a rough approximation of what you can expect from IEM's.. Remember it's an approximation. You might start with some medium priced universals like the UM30.

That's a great idea. Good on ear or over ears code much less than the equivalent IEM. If they say their earbuds don't sound as good as the headphones, find the balance of quality vs cost. But getting them on their head is the first step.

The previous post about steeeo, we have a DL1608 with 6 aux mixes. I think I can link 2 to make a single aux but I'm worried I'll get used to it and want stereo all the time. Or I'm worried the others will want tonand we don't have enough channels. So I haven't tried it because I'm afraid I'll like it. LOL.

 

[s0c9]

That's a great idea. Good on ear or over ears code much less than the equivalent IEM. If they say their earbuds don't sound as good as the headphones, find the balance of quality vs cost. But getting them on their head is the first step.

The previous post about steeeo, we have a DL1608 with 6 aux mixes. I think I can link 2 to make a single aux but I'm worried I'll get used to it and want stereo all the time. Or I'm worried the others will want tonand we don't have enough channels. So I haven't tried it because I'm afraid I'll like it. LOL.

As a weekend warrior, I've been going down the IEM route for close to seven (7) years now... going thru wired to wireless and a whole range of universal buds (with all kinds of tips) to customs. My system is now Senn G3 wireless and 1964 A8 buds.. which works fabulously for me. Spent 3X their cost getting there tho'
I started down the path because of what I read and saw on the pro audio forums and who/how it was being done. During that time - from personal experience, reading various forums and having run sound for a LOT of local bands - the common factor for folks NOT moving to IEM's is one (or both) of 2 things.
1 - Too expensive for a quality rig so they bought cheap single-driver buds that distorted and caused ear fatigue and they HATED the sound and the isolation!
2 - Can't put stuff in my ears and need to feel the amp in the room.

That's WHY I suggested that if you're NEW to IEM's like @Resonance129, try over-the-ears phones (most musicians have a set somewhere) to get used to the "feeling" and "isolation" that approximates the universal/custom IEM experience. If you can handle that OK, then you should be able to easily move to IEM's. There's a reason most "pros" use custom IEM's and have quality systems. And like digital technology in consoles, the price has dropped to where a GOOD wireless IEM system is AFFORDABLE for gigging local bands! My band has been exclusively IEM for 4 yrs. We made a few wrong turns along the way.. but run our own STEREO IEM mixes off an X32 rack into Senn G3's.

Other than buying your own buds.. the cost of a GOOD STEREO wireless IEM system is about the same as running a GOOD passive wedge (+ amps) or GOOD active wedge monitor system - minus the weight and hookups!! Build yourself a self-contained IEM rig that YOU control (mix your own via tablets), split feeds off (or to) the house and you are good to go for festival gigs on down. SR folks LOVE focusing on FOH and NOT having to deal with monitor mixes for bands.. especially when they put 8 of them on stage during the day!!

That said.. some folks.. will NEVER transition.. so try before you buy.. but if you decide to go "all in".. buy GOOD QUALITY gear... it's no different than a GOOD QUALITY bass rig...
My $0.02

 

[Resonance129]

Try rehearsing with full-ear headphones before rushing out and blowing $$$.. That will give you a rough approximation of what you can expect from IEM's.. Remember it's an approximation. You might start with some medium priced universals like the UM30.

I practice at home with over-ear headphones all the time (AKG's). Never been able to rehearse during a full band practice that way, though. I plan to bring up my interest in IEM's at my bands next rehearsal to gauge reactions, and maybe mention plugging into the board during rehearsal to see what it's like.
Thanks again for the feedback, suggestions.

 

[Scottkarch]

Hopefully it will work out well, or give you a good idea of what you might achieve. But I'd say the benefits are huge if you can make the change, especially if all the band uses them. Having everyone with IEMs and no wedges is a huge step. You can do it on your own, but it seems that if everyone does it, you get the most benefit.. And once you go IEM, then there is a good argument to go ampless for bass and even many guitar players. the quieter it is on stage, the easier it is on the sound guy, lower your can keep your IEMs, etc.. But dip your toe ( or ear ) in and give it a shot.

 

[BluesOnBass]

It's simple physics really. Speakers are mechanical and not terribly efficient at producing the full audio spectrum.. that is why multi-way speakers (more than one speaker in a cab with an internal crossover) are more efficient and sound better. Each speaker is producing a specific frequency range. In a 2-way, you might have a 15, 12 or 10 driver and a 1" Tweeter, with a crossover in the 1600-1800+ Hz range, splitting the signal between each speaker.
Think about your PA.. How would it sound if you had no subs, and instead of the average 2 or 3-way tops.. one single speaker that everything was crammed thru and cranked up!! It would sound HORRIBLE.
Now think about that right up against your ear.. that's single drivers.
Distortion, ear fatigue and so on.
With triple driver (or better) buds, you get Low, mid and High frequency drivers with an internal 3-way crossover. You can EQ the input to increase bass, cut highs, etc.
More control, better sound.. for a price !!

So.... Yes .

 

[seamonkey]

It all goes through a single eardrum in each ear.
20hz - 20khz while you're young and not healthy.
You may get lucky and find that lower cost and single driver IEM work fine for you. Most problems I read are of the "seal" in the ear. Some actually fit pretty good, not for everybody. Custom fit to each individuals ears would be best, but if the standard foam ones fit, there may not be much of a difference.

 

[Scottkarch]

Just finished our second show of the weekend. I used both the $19 KZ ZST and the Mee M6. The KZ was much better for me. I'm going to pick up another set.

 

[joenoone]

So far the best earphones I've listened to are the KZ ZS6. They have 2BAs and 2DDs per ear in a comfortable vented aluminum casing. At our church we use Sure IEMs and other high end ones. I let our sound guy (who is a long-time professional) try mine and he bought a bunch of ZS6's for everyone since they were better sounding and cheaper ($30-$50).

 

[AMp'D.2play]

Instead of starting a new thread, I figured I'd just bump this one with my questions. (Searches led me to a ton of reading, but I'm still uncertain.) And I'll begin with the questions so you don't have to read the back-story. At my price point ($400-600 +/-) is it better to go for custom or get additional drivers with universal? I only play bass, so don't need something for vocals. And for my other band situations (I'm subbing for a couple), can I go in-ears if I'm the only one doing it? I understand I'll have to pay for the unit and connect it with their PAs, but is it possible/practical?

I'd previously used wireless in-ears with a former band, but they gave up on them after 2 gigs. I recently started playing with a church that uses wired in-ears, and in a pinch I've been using a set of Shure 315s that I had for just listening through an ipod. I went from getting ready to audition, to having a live audition when their regular bass player couldn't make it (the WL took the word of a friend that I didn't suck), to now being asked how often I'm available (I can't commit to every Sunday, but we'll see.). Time to move up from the 315s.

My research led me to Westone & 1964, but the friend referenced in the previous paragraph (and another church player - guitar & bass) uses Alclair. I figure my budget is comfortably around $400-600. I can go a little higher ($700-800), but don't want to break the bank for something that will only get used a couple of Sundays a month (@ 6-8 songs per).

If I go custom, I realize I also have the $$ of the impressions, but I'm leaving that separate. I own Westone custom earplugs thanks to a case of tinnitus, but have no prior experience with either of the other 2. The customs are a PITA to insert, but fit great once in. I'll sometimes get a little seal breakage if I move my jaw a certain way, but I don't sing, so it doesn't happen often. It seems that I can get more drivers for ~ the same cost if I go Universal, but then have to hope the inserts fit (I usually do OK with the medium-sized inserts from most earbuds I've worn, including the 315s). And 64 Audio has some good deals on B-stock universals, which would get me an extra driver or 2 for a comparable cost. But I'd have to hope they fit. I think, right now, I'm leaning towards the 1964s, followed by Alclair & Westone, in that order.

 

[joenoone]

Our praise leader is a professional musician (keyboardist) and he liked the KZ ZS6 over westone IEMs he had. Get comply tips for a tight comfortable fit. For custom fit there are youtube videos on making DIY customs. Best solution to try before sinking a fortune into 1964s or otherwise.

 

[s0c9]

Instead of starting a new thread, I figured I'd just bump this one with my questions. (Searches led me to a ton of reading, but I'm still uncertain.) And I'll begin with the questions so you don't have to read the back-story. At my price point ($400-600 +/-) is it better to go for custom or get additional drivers with universal? I only play bass, so don't need something for vocals. And for my other band situations (I'm subbing for a couple), can I go in-ears if I'm the only one doing it? I understand I'll have to pay for the unit and connect it with their PAs, but is it possible/practical?

I'd previously used wireless in-ears with a former band, but they gave up on them after 2 gigs. I recently started playing with a church that uses wired in-ears, and in a pinch I've been using a set of Shure 315s that I had for just listening through an ipod. I went from getting ready to audition, to having a live audition when their regular bass player couldn't make it (the WL took the word of a friend that I didn't suck), to now being asked how often I'm available (I can't commit to every Sunday, but we'll see.). Time to move up from the 315s.

My research led me to Westone & 1964, but the friend referenced in the previous paragraph (and another church player - guitar & bass) uses Alclair. I figure my budget is comfortably around $400-600. I can go a little higher ($700-800), but don't want to break the bank for something that will only get used a couple of Sundays a month (@ 6-8 songs per).

If I go custom, I realize I also have the $$ of the impressions, but I'm leaving that separate. I own Westone custom earplugs thanks to a case of tinnitus, but have no prior experience with either of the other 2. The customs are a PITA to insert, but fit great once in. I'll sometimes get a little seal breakage if I move my jaw a certain way, but I don't sing, so it doesn't happen often. It seems that I can get more drivers for ~ the same cost if I go Universal, but then have to hope the inserts fit (I usually do OK with the medium-sized inserts from most earbuds I've worn, including the 315s). And 64 Audio has some good deals on B-stock universals, which would get me an extra driver or 2 for a comparable cost. But I'd have to hope they fit. I think, right now, I'm leaning towards the 1964s, followed by Alclair & Westone, in that order.

So..... starting point (IME) for any discussion is.. DO UNIVERSALS WORK for YOU?
Meaning.. do they stay in your ears, does the "seal" remain?
If they do...??? GREAT !!
You can get GREAT universals with multiple drivers for FAR less than equivalent custom molds.
As mentioned earlier, the KZ ZS6's are really good value for the $$$
Try them out and you won't be out of pocket if they don't work.. far less an issue than spending $800+ on customs and finding out THEY DON'T work.

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

I highly reccomend trying the kz zs6 quad drivers they are only $47 new. Especially try with a upgrade cable and either triple flange tips or the comply foam. I compared them to the shure se535's and they destroyed them. I was blown away even after buying the upgrade cable tips and a pelican case i was still under $100 and they are built like a tank with aluminum housings.

 

[Red Planet]

Hi All,

Definitely will try out the KZs at that price cant hurt to have some laying around.

 

[Red Planet]

Also for those wanting a custom fit on a budget and Multi drivers I suggest you check out Eartech Music @ Eartech Music - Custom IEM Systems for All Budgets
These babes are hand made in the USA and much cheaper than all the other brands. They are located in Johnson City TN and these are a great value. I got impressions done local to me for $50.00 then shipped them off to Eartech myself. The pricing is amazing since they do not use dealer networks/distributes/they sell direct. I got a set of 6 Driver custom molded ears for $714.00 shipped to my door.

Also more expensive is not always better. I wanted to step up from Shure SE-215's and went with the Shure SE-535's and they just have too much mid and highs and less bass than the 215's. For a budget you cant beat the 215's though I will be trying out the KSs for sure.